Min. Wage grand standing in Minn.

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**Easy E**

http://minnesota.cbslocal.com/2014/08/05/minn-restaurant-charging-customers-minimum-wage-fee/

MINNEAPOLIS (WCCO) — People eating at a Stillwater restaurant Tuesday noticed a new fee added to their bill.

Owners of the Oasis Cafe are charging a 35 cent minimum wage fee. They say it’s to offset the cost of an increased minimum wage for tipped employees.

Customers have mixed reviews about the new fee.

For some, the thought of charging customers this fee sent them to social media to vent.
“You’re essentially blaming customers for the increase when you charge for it the way you do,” one customer wrote on Facebook.

Another said: “It’s Oasis way of blaming our government for trying to set a fair living wage. It is political grandstanding.”

Oasis owners fired back on Facebook, saying: “Thumbing my nose at the law change, you’re right. Part of my thinking was to shine a light on this matter, which I truly believe is in the best interest of both my business and employees.”

Many eating at Oasis on Tuesday said it’s not a big deal to pay a little extra to keep a small business afloat.

“I don’t take issue with it really,” Jordan Felt said.

The Oasis management says they estimate the pay increase is costing them more than $10,000 a year.

People we spoke with say they support the businesses effort to keep the employees they have working.

“For a small business, I think that’s an OK thing, but if you are a larger company and you have the money and you’re just greedy and you don’t want to pay it yourself, then that’s a whole another story,” Markie Babcock said.

The owners say if Minnesota would pass a tip credit like 43 other states have done none of this would be necessary.

The owners were on vacation Tuesday but say they are looking forward to coming home to debate this hot button issue.

Edit: You can see a photo of te receipt at this article: http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/story/26210237/minimum-wage-fee-on-stillwater-minn-cafe-bill-sparks-conflict

**Frazzled**

HAH HAH HAH

**Jihadin**

That's funny

**cincydooley**

Good for them.

The other option is raise their prices on food items.

I like this very transparent way a lot better.

**Wyrmalla**

Is that business where workers are expected to earn their wages through tips really still in place? That's more negligence on the part of the business rather than the customer's responsibility. Pay your staff what they're due and don't complain that you're losing out because the minimum wage has been lifted. Seems a kind of archaic way of handing wages, and well one which benefits the company more than it does the worker. ...That and well its an odd concept for tourists I'd imagine, as well here at least a tip isn't expected (and more often than not its either pocketed by the business or put in a tips jar that's spread out amongst staff), or in certain restaurants its returned to the customer (though not to say these are the cases with all restaurants, just that it isn't the norm).

**Jihadin**

Tip in cash if you like your waiter/waitress.

**Hulksmash**

If I have a 2-hour meal is it a .70 cent fee? Just curious since I live around here

**daedalus**

It went up a 1.25 it looks like based upon the MN state website. At 35 cents per table, each member of the wait staff needs to consistently manage three and a half tables an hour for this to come out even.

...I wonder how they figured that. It's been a while since I worked in a restaurant, but I want to say the one I did had a good 6-8 tables at least per waitress during rushes. I guess that place could be better staffed or have fewer customers, and that would help balance out the slow periods of the day, but I can't help but wonder if that's going to actually wind up making money.

**cincydooley**

Wyrmalla wrote:
Is that business where workers are expected to earn their wages through tips really still in place? That's more negligence on the part of the business rather than the customer's responsibility. Pay your staff what they're due and don't complain that you're losing out because the minimum wage has been lifted. Seems a kind of archaic way of handing wages, and well one which benefits the company more than it does the worker. ...That and well its an odd concept for tourists I'd imagine, as well here at least a tip isn't expected (and more often than not its either pocketed by the business or put in a tips jar that's spread out amongst staff), or in certain restaurants its returned to the customer (though not to say these are the cases with all restaurants, just that it isn't the norm).

And ths outlines a major cultural difference.

**Ouze**

I'd like to think someday we'll get away from tipping entirely. The whole thing is dumb, it would be better to just pay people for their work.

**cincydooley**

Ouze wrote:
I'd like to think someday we'll get away from tipping entirely. The whole thing is dumb, it would be better to just pay people for their work.

I personally disagree. I mostly loved tips when I was a server in college.

**Jihadin**

Ouze wrote:
I'd like to think someday we'll get away from tipping entirely. The whole thing is dumb, it would be better to just pay people for their work.

Wife and I tip quite well if the waiter/waitress stays on top of things (like drinks) and have a good attitude towards her work and social skills

**Ouze**

I tip well, because that's the system we have. I just think it's a dumb system.

**Wyrmalla**

cincydooley wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:
Is that business where workers are expected to earn their wages through tips really still in place? That's more negligence on the part of the business rather than the customer's responsibility. Pay your staff what they're due and don't complain that you're losing out because the minimum wage has been lifted. Seems a kind of archaic way of handing wages, and well one which benefits the company more than it does the worker. ...That and well its an odd concept for tourists I'd imagine, as well here at least a tip isn't expected (and more often than not its either pocketed by the business or put in a tips jar that's spread out amongst staff), or in certain restaurants its returned to the customer (though not to say these are the cases with all restaurants, just that it isn't the norm).

And ths outlines a major cultural difference.

What that a company should pay its own workers not expect its customers to? Or that a member of staff should only tipped if they do a good job, not just for doing their job at all. Even then I don't think someone should be tipped as well, its their job in the first place, and they should be doing it well already. You're not tipped in other fields (well often), but for some reason, a holdover from another time perhaps, its assumed the norm in the restaurant business. Hell I'd love if clients forked out extra cash if I made a database which worked for them, but well like I said, that's the whole point in the first place.

Whatever. Like I said here, youknow where people are actually paid for their work, at least amongst my peer group, its rare to see someone tip. Even then as I mentioned the server doesn't often accept it (they'll send back the bill with change, its up to you whether you take that change). IIRC Tv Tropes has a page detailing tipping etiquette, and well in the US its assumed you give one (as if you don't that's saying the server's work is worthless), whereas in other countries its optional, or seen as an insult. meh, different cultures. =P

**Jihadin**

Notice tipping in Europe was frawn upon when I was station in Europe. Guess its an American thing. They tip in Canada?

**daedalus**

Wyrmalla wrote:

What that a company should pay its own workers not expect its customers to?

I'm not sure I can think of a single company that exists for which the customers aren't paying the employees. Sure, money changes hands, passes through payroll, whatever, but the end result is still the same. Money leaves the customers and goes into the hands of the workers. It doesn't come from the sky.

Or that a member of staff should only tipped if they do a good job, not just for doing their job at all. Even then I don't think someone should be tipped as well, its their job in the first place, and they should be doing it well already. You're not tipped in other fields (well often), but for some reason, a holdover from another time perhaps, its assumed the norm in the restaurant business. Hell I'd love if clients forked out extra cash if I made a database which worked for them, but well like I said, that's the whole point in the first place.

In hopitality, it's seen as an incentive to do a better job to get a better tip. Around where I live, the bartenders get paid mostly in tips, and none of them are left wanting, all things considered, especially when you consider that most of the paper money tips are handled under the table.. I'm friends with them. We've discussed it.

Whatever. Like I said here, youknow where people are actually paid for their work, at least amongst my peer group, its rare to see someone tip. Even then as I mentioned the server doesn't often accept it (they'll send back the bill with change, its up to you whether you take that change). IIRC Tv Tropes has a page detailing tipping etiquette, and well in the US its assumed you give one (as if you don't that's saying the server's work is worthless), whereas in other countries its optional, or seen as an insult. meh, different cultures. =P

Different cultures indeed.

**Frazzled**

Ouze wrote:
I'd like to think someday we'll get away from tipping entirely. The whole thing is dumb, it would be better to just pay people for their work.

Thats what tipping is.

**SilverMK2**

Tipping is something that is seen more commonly in Europe, but is not endemic as it is in the US. Tipping often seems expected in some parts of the far and middle east, though I am not sure how much of that is just for tourists

Personally I may leave a small tip for good service, or maybe up to 5-10% for great service. Expensive places tend not to get tips left.

I don't get tipping even for bad service. Endured 3 hours for a meal once were the serving staff were terrible, took forever between courses and taking drink orders, didn't care that some members of the group had dietary restrictions and just shrugged when brining out two similar meals as to which one was OK for them to eat, etc. If it were up to me we would not have even paid the cost of the meal. As it was we did and the server who finally came to sort out the bill was really indignant that we were not leaving a tip for the worst service I have ever had!

**Wyrmalla**

daedalus wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:

What that a company should pay its own workers not expect its customers to?

I'm not sure I can think of a single company that exists for which the customers aren't paying the employees. Sure, money changes hands, passes through payroll, whatever, but the end result is still the same. Money leaves the customers and goes into the hands of the workers. It doesn't come from the sky.

Yeah, but the company's being paid by the customers too. They're being given money for the service and then not providing it to their workers. Rather they say "pay us then pay our employees", charging the customer twice. it seems a silly thing to have such an unregulated way of paying workers given that people are expected to have a minimum living income.

daedalus wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:

Or that a member of staff should only tipped if they do a good job, not just for doing their job at all. Even then I don't think someone should be tipped as well, its their job in the first place, and they should be doing it well already. You're not tipped in other fields (well often), but for some reason, a holdover from another time perhaps, its assumed the norm in the restaurant business. Hell I'd love if clients forked out extra cash if I made a database which worked for them, but well like I said, that's the whole point in the first place.

In hopitality, it's seen as an incentive to do a better job to get a better tip. Around where I live, the bartenders get paid mostly in tips, and none of them are left wanting, all things considered, especially when you consider that most of the paper money tips are handled under the table.. I'm friends with them. We've discussed it.

Yeah, but I think you'll find that not paying a staff member for their hours is illegal. It doesn't matter if they did their job well, they still should be paid. That makes the whole system biased. I mean its up to the customer's mood and feelings towards the employee whether they pay them. Say you do an amazing job and the customer doesn't give you a penny, or you sit around on your butt or day but have a good personality so people throw money at you? Is that fair? Everyone should be paid, not just those that're cherry picked by the crowd.

daedalus wrote:
Wyrmalla wrote:

Whatever. Like I said here, youknow where people are actually paid for their work, at least amongst my peer group, its rare to see someone tip. Even then as I mentioned the server doesn't often accept it (they'll send back the bill with change, its up to you whether you take that change). IIRC Tv Tropes has a page detailing tipping etiquette, and well in the US its assumed you give one (as if you don't that's saying the server's work is worthless), whereas in other countries its optional, or seen as an insult. meh, different cultures. =P

Different cultures indeed.

And yup, like I say, its negligence on the company's part that this system's still in place. Its a person's responsibility to do their job, so they shouldn't be expecting extra cash for doing that. People should receive a minimum wage for their employer first, then leave it up to the customer if they want to give them extra for their service. Its an odd system in the US, one which seems a bit horrible to work under, but I suppose the employers are fine with it so it hasn't changed. Oh I've heard plenty of complaints about it, but as long as people have the odd attitude that they don't have the right to be paid by their employers for their services (rather working as a sort of mercenary within a venue) it'll stick. Weird.

**Spacemanvic**

SilverMK2 wrote:
Tipping is something that is seen more commonly in Europe, but is not endemic as it is in the US. Tipping often seems expected in some parts of the far and middle east, though I am not sure how much of that is just for tourists

Personally I may leave a small tip for good service, or maybe up to 5-10% for great service. Expensive places tend not to get tips left.

I don't get tipping even for bad service. Endured 3 hours for a meal once were the serving staff were terrible, took forever between courses and taking drink orders, didn't care that some members of the group had dietary restrictions and just shrugged when brining out two similar meals as to which one was OK for them to eat, etc. If it were up to me we would not have even paid the cost of the meal. As it was we did and the server who finally came to sort out the bill was really indignant that we were not leaving a tip for the worst service I have ever had!

10% is usually what I leave when the service is bad. Normally 20-25% is what I leave. Id be too embarrassed to leave 5-10%. Must be a cultural thing though?

I agree, at more expensive restaurants, I may leave a smaller tip/no tip as I figure the price of the meal factors in the gratuity (and sometimes it is stated as so).

My then future wife used to make pretty good $$ as a waitress/hostess at an NYC Friday's during college.

**Jihadin**

How many tip in cash so they (waiter/waitress) don't have to claim it on taxes?

**daedalus**

If I have it, I do. More often than not it's the card though.

**cincydooley**

Jihadin wrote:
How many tip in cash so they (waiter/waitress) don't have to claim it on taxes?

Having both been servers, my wife and I tip in cash whenever we have it.

Bear in mind that in the US the cost of food is kept lower at many restaurants because of how the pay is structured for the servers. The restaurants aren't "double dipping."

And when it comes to nice restaurants, I usually tip more than at a "normal" restaurant because the standards of service are almost always higher. But then again, I'm in the, "if you can't afford to tip, don't eat out" crowd.

**Spacemanvic**

Jihadin wrote:
How many tip in cash so they (waiter/waitress) don't have to claim it on taxes?

Cash.

Gubmint gets enough $$$...

**nkelsch**

Spacemanvic wrote:

10% is usually what I leave when the service is bad. Normally 20-25% is what I leave. Id be too embarrassed to leave 5-10%. Must be a cultural thing though?

I agree, at more expensive restaurants, I may leave a smaller tip/no tip as I figure the price of the meal factors in the gratuity (and sometimes it is stated as so).

My then future wife used to make pretty good $$ as a waitress/hostess at an NYC Friday's during college.

The issue is, a server doesn't get *ALL* of that Tip. They have to give some to the hostess who seats their section, especially when they can send high rollers to your section or make your section terribly slow. You need to share the tip with the Bartender so he makes your drinks quickly so you don't have to go to the table and be like 'I put your drinks in, they might show up eventually.' You need to share some with the bus boy so your tables are cleaned and stocked and ready to be re-seated quickly so you have the chance at more people going through your section.

Also, in the US, many places have laws where employees get taxed on 'expected tips' whether they earn them or not. Cash doesn't mean the government gets 'less'. So someone may make 3.25$ an hour and get taxed as if they make 15$ an hour with the expectation that they had tips to cover the rest. If you don't tip, or they have no tables, you could have an employee go home with a negative paycheck.

If you don't like the system, blame the lawmakers. Restaurants and wait staff are not in a place to change it.

The truth is, it stays this way because good waitstaff *CAN* make bank, and bad ones cry about it. I know people who easily make 1000$ a weekend from tips for 2 days of work. They can put themselves through school via hard work and being a good server. To kill tipping and make it a European model is going to guarantee the unskilled and lazy are all who stay as wait staff as people won't tip the way they do now. You want to see bad service, then change the way it works.

**easysauce**

thats funny, seems like certain people support min wage increases, then complain when the price of their food goes up accordingly...

its almost as if people think that money just magically appears out of nowhere.

the resteraunt could have just increased prices accordingly and no one would have whined, all this does is make it clear WHY the price went up.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jihadin wrote:
Notice tipping in Europe was frawn upon when I was station in Europe. Guess its an American thing. They tip in Canada?

yes we do,

everywhere I go my reputation seems to be that canucks are good tippers too!

**Wyrmalla**

So the tips are used to bribe other staff members to do the jobs they're supposed to as well? Yup, great system. Again, people do your damn jobs in the first place. If you're not good at your job then that's up to your employee to fire you, not because you've been put into poverty through not being paid at all. If a person pulls a certain number of hours they should be paid for it, it doesn't matter if they didn't do the work to their fullest. Again, if they're crap they should be fired at the end of their shift then. Its not as if in the rest of the world and every other job that doesn't work on the tip system that you have have a massive number of people that are terrible at their jobs. The whole system seems rather cut throat and serves to save the employer cash whilst screwing over the worker. The OP implies that the employer's sitting there saying, "we don't want to pay them the extra cash, so you lot have to". Uh, they're your staff, there's something wrong with your business model if you can't allocate a certain amount of your earnings to paying them. Don't then complain that you'll go bankrupt if you actually have to pay them. In almost every other field people receive a wage, so it comes a cross as a bit backward to hear people defending this one.

**nkelsch**

easysauce wrote:

the resteraunt could have just increased prices accordingly and no one would have whined,

Yes they would have. The people who are indignant about this issue are the same people who think every business owner is swimming in cash and would have complained if they were charged extra for cheese, or had no tomatoes due to high prices and just say 'the owner should absorb the costs and make it work!' without actually knowing anything about how that would be done.

**Frazzled**

Wyrmalla wrote:
So the tips are used to bribe other staff members to do the jobs they're supposed to as well? Yup, great system. Again, people do your damn jobs in the first place. If you're not good at your job then that's up to your employee to fire you, not because you've been put into poverty through not being paid at all. If a person pulls a certain number of hours they should be paid for it, it doesn't matter if they didn't do the work to their fullest. Again, if they're crap they should be fired at the end of their shift then. Its not as if in the rest of the world and every other job that doesn't work on the tip system that you have have a massive number of people that are terrible at their jobs. The whole system seems rather cut throat and serves to save the employer cash whilst screwing over the worker. The OP implies that the employer's sitting there saying, "we don't want to pay them the extra cash, so you lot have to". Uh, they're your staff, there's something wrong with your business model if you can't allocate a certain amount of your earnings to paying them. Don't then complain that you'll go bankrupt if you actually have to pay them. In almost every other field people receive a wage, so it comes a cross as a bit backward to hear people defending this one.

We get along fine with our system thanks. You can keep yours.

**nkelsch**

Wyrmalla wrote:
So the tips are used to bribe other staff members to do the jobs they're supposed to as well? Yup, great system. Again, people do your damn jobs in the first place. If you're not good at your job then that's up to your employee to fire you, not because you've been put into poverty through not being paid at all. If a person pulls a certain number of hours they should be paid for it, it doesn't matter if they didn't do the work to their fullest. Again, if they're crap they should be fired at the end of their shift then. Its not as if in the rest of the world and every other job that doesn't work on the tip system that you have have a massive number of people that are terrible at their jobs. The whole system seems rather cut throat and serves to save the employer cash whilst screwing over the worker. The OP implies that the employer's sitting there saying, "we don't want to pay them the extra cash, so you lot have to". Uh, they're your staff, there's something wrong with your business model if you can't allocate a certain amount of your earnings to paying them. Don't then complain that you'll go bankrupt if you actually have to pay them. In almost every other field people receive a wage, so it comes a cross as a bit backward to hear people defending this one.

A majority of workers in all industries are lazy and bad at their jobs. It is very hard to find a moderate employee let alone an exceptional one. Lots of people see work as 'just a paycheck' and their work quality and output reflects that. When building widgets, you can account for the fact that of your 50 employees, on average they will make 8 widgets an hour even though a motivated and skilled employee can make 17 an hour, you have to plan for the 'average' and accept the average.

Wait Staff is where people have the opportunity to really excel or fall on their face. If you don't succeed, it is your fault as you are not entitled to anything. People who are motivated by that type of reward system thrive in it and the mutual support of those who work hard weed out those who don't. Not everyone is motivated by hard work or pride in their work. There are jobs for people like that elsewhere not in the service industry.

You have no idea how the laws work and how the cash flow works with your 'obviously rich business owner can always absorb any cost' rebuttal and 'poor sad workers should never be expected to work harder' response. A system where someone is directly rewarded for working harder and doing higher quality work is a good thing in some industries. If you don't like that or are not motivated by that model, work in a different industry, don't force all industries to try to accommodate your work ethic even if you don't work in them.