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Unit1126PLL wrote:I have had great success with Slaanesh in Crusade play. I know it's not exactly the same as competitive play, but we tend to follow competitive rules (and I don't summon).
Some of the tactics may still be applicable...
What were your crusade tactics and build? I'm hoping to get in and on a major slaanesh kick in AoS and would like to mirror that in 40k.
2 Exalted KOS, both rolling, and the Mirror, for 3 HQ. 2x 10 Daemonettes and 1x20. Costs all 5 starting RP and leaves you with 4 pl left over (I didn't fill it because I wasn't sure what I wanted). Generally, the KOS go in early with the Mirror between them. I typically try to keep the Mirror out of combat, but if I need to charge to get within 6" of the KOS targets, I will. Generally you want to make sure something is left alive to be locked in combat with the KOSs by the Mirror's Horrible Fascination ability, which prevents them from being shot. You can maximize the chances of this in several ways:
1) I gave the Mirror the Forbidden Gem relic. You can use it on characters to stop them from falling back from 12" away, even if they're outside of the 6" horrible fascination range. Characters are also likely to survive the KOS's attacks pretty well (especially if you have another unit to direct those attacks at) and cannot be removed from Morale.
2) I also gave the Mirror the Phantasmagoria spell, to reduce enemy LD and enhance the likelyhood of it functioning. Back in the old days, this was bad, as units could be removed wholesale by Morale which meant ofc they were not locked in combat, but in 9th units are much much less likely to outright disappear simply because of a leadership failure.
3) I ensure the keepers charge multiple units, and sometimes have to spread my attacks carefully. For example, I might charge 2x5 Eldar, but put like 8 attacks on one and 2 attacks on the other. This helps you avoid overkilling a target and having to either consolidate outside of the Mirror's support range or not being able to lock up another enemy at all.
Usually, the Mirror dies pretty soon after, as it's apparent that it's the lynchpin of my list. However, with the frontline units evaporated and my one-use-only Gem expended early in the game, the enemy army is typically exposed at this point. Deep strike the Daemonettes (or run and charge them forwards), and use the keepers like a knife to the gut while the Daemonettes pick and peel at the remaining edges.
Mamon is actually not a bad choice for warlord for a nurgle army, as I see it. He combines reasonable cc ability, resilience, a good ranged attack, the standard DP aura, and is cheap as chips to boot. The best thing is you can hide him behind your other forces. He's not going to set the world alight, but to me he looks like a good warlord choice. Main drawback being he has to take the +1 ld aura trait, which is ok I guess. He's a bit slow too, but can at least advance and fire his auto-hit gun.
Scabieathrax looks to be one of the only playable Exalted Greater Daemon characters. He at least provides a good aura (exhalations of the plague pit) which is welcome bonus that other GUOs can't give you.
Aetaos'rau'keres looks absolutely awful to me. If they'd have kept his staff shooting attack as it was, he'd be more usable. As I read it, he doesn't even get the 3++ anymore.
Zarakynel doesn't really bring anything to the table that multiple KoS can't do better for the points. Some kind of unique aura would have been nice.
Anggrath looks playable, partly because you can get him to fight twice with the khorne strat. Though unfortunately, you won't have a lot of CP to play with.
Uraka is fine, I suppose.
Cor'bax is basically a worse deal than mamon in almost every way, except that he's a decent psyker.
I'm hoping that they might FAQ the exalted characters to be Supreme Commanders? That'd massively alleviate the problems in taking them. As it is, you'd never take one as your warlord, as that means you also have to pay for your army's main detachment.
I plan on running a silly Khorne list this friday and i'm curious on what the hivemind's thoughts are. I'm currently running a lot of bloodletters, some flesh hounds, 2 bloodthirsters and Ann'grath. I am bringing one more HQ but I can't decide between Skarbrand or a DP. For quick reference, Skarbrand is 310 and a DP is 195/200 atm. Which would benefit my list the most? Morale immunity and extra attacks (along with a big beat stick) or rerolling 1s and an extra 100-ish points to play with?
Just a micro-battle report from my game on Friday night, which was referenced earlier this page!
It was Khorne Daemons vs Eldar, the Eldar taking a very classic 8th ed list of guardians, dark reapers, Eldrad and Shining spears, along with some other stuff. I took Ann'grath, 2 Bloodthirsters, a DP, a bunch of bloodletters, and a spined chaos beast along with a MSU of hounds and a skull cannon.
Ann'grath survived an entire turn of sustained fire from the Eldar player and even managed to kill a unit before he died, and promptly exploded dealing about 8 additional mortal wounds to their army! At 550 points i'd say he's well worth the investment, just as a fire magnet alone.
The Spined Chaos Beast from FW Legends is surprisingly good! Fast and extremely high damage, even if it isn't the most durable thing on earth. Pulled its weight, and caught my opponent totally off guard!
And unsurprisingly, the Bloodletter Bomb is alive and well, as it /shredded/ what they got in with.
All in all, Khorne Demons seem to be at least pretty nice this edition, although it requires spamming of BTs and Letters sadly.
vaklor4 wrote: Just a micro-battle report from my game on Friday night, which was referenced earlier this page!
It was Khorne Daemons vs Eldar, the Eldar taking a very classic 8th ed list of guardians, dark reapers, Eldrad and Shining spears, along with some other stuff. I took Ann'grath, 2 Bloodthirsters, a DP, a bunch of bloodletters, and a spined chaos beast along with a MSU of hounds and a skull cannon.
Ann'grath survived an entire turn of sustained fire from the Eldar player and even managed to kill a unit before he died, and promptly exploded dealing about 8 additional mortal wounds to their army! At 550 points i'd say he's well worth the investment, just as a fire magnet alone.
The Spined Chaos Beast from FW Legends is surprisingly good! Fast and extremely high damage, even if it isn't the most durable thing on earth. Pulled its weight, and caught my opponent totally off guard!
And unsurprisingly, the Bloodletter Bomb is alive and well, as it /shredded/ what they got in with.
All in all, Khorne Demons seem to be at least pretty nice this edition, although it requires spamming of BTs and Letters sadly.
Mastering Khorne will be a challenge with new players and a lot of thinking out of the box for a lot of players. A buddy of mine is working on a list with 3 Bloodthirsters and 125 bloodletters. Me I just looking for a lot of fun.
vaklor4 wrote: Just a micro-battle report from my game on Friday night, which was referenced earlier this page!
It was Khorne Daemons vs Eldar, the Eldar taking a very classic 8th ed list of guardians, dark reapers, Eldrad and Shining spears, along with some other stuff. I took Ann'grath, 2 Bloodthirsters, a DP, a bunch of bloodletters, and a spined chaos beast along with a MSU of hounds and a skull cannon.
Ann'grath survived an entire turn of sustained fire from the Eldar player and even managed to kill a unit before he died, and promptly exploded dealing about 8 additional mortal wounds to their army! At 550 points i'd say he's well worth the investment, just as a fire magnet alone.
The Spined Chaos Beast from FW Legends is surprisingly good! Fast and extremely high damage, even if it isn't the most durable thing on earth. Pulled its weight, and caught my opponent totally off guard!
And unsurprisingly, the Bloodletter Bomb is alive and well, as it /shredded/ what they got in with.
All in all, Khorne Demons seem to be at least pretty nice this edition, although it requires spamming of BTs and Letters sadly.
Mastering Khorne will be a challenge with new players and a lot of thinking out of the box for a lot of players. A buddy of mine is working on a list with 3 Bloodthirsters and 125 bloodletters. Me I just looking for a lot of fun.
In my play tests, 3-4 blood thirsters is enough threat saturation to be meaningful, but it's all about CP at that point. My best suggestion for BL spam at this point is to do blocks of 20 to preserve CP, since 60 bloodletters deepstriked with banners is 6 CP, while 3 blocks of 20 is only 5.
Troops
30x Bloodletters with Banner of Blood (bloodletters bomb) (daemonic icon and instrument)
15x Bloodletters (daemonic icon and instrument)
15x Bloodletters (daemonic icon and instrument)
Elite
6x Bloodcrushers (daemonic icon and instrument)
Fast
6x Flesh Hounds
6x Flesh Hounds
Heavy
2x Giant Chaos Spawns (because i love those models)
Troops
30x Bloodletters with Banner of Blood (bloodletters bomb) (daemonic icon and instrument)
15x Bloodletters (daemonic icon and instrument)
15x Bloodletters (daemonic icon and instrument)
Elite
6x Bloodcrushers (daemonic icon and instrument)
Fast
6x Flesh Hounds
6x Flesh Hounds
Heavy
2x Giant Chaos Spawns (because i love those models)
Just my personal opinion, i'd drop those down to squads of 10 bloodletteers, and use those 80 points towards somethin like more bloodcrushers. I wouldnt worry too much about blast on the bloodcrushers, because you REALLY want them to have a big squad for that amazing stratagem they got in engine war. Also Giant Chaos Spawns look fun, try em for sure!
Techpriest_ wrote:Just an FYI, you guys win the oldest Codex award:
I saw that they listed one of the Fantasy End Times campaign books from 1605 Jan 1. I'm guessing the stress of zero work breaks and slave driving has staff cracking for Amazon, particularly as Christmas time hits.
For Slaanesh's Contorted Epitome, is Slothful Claws worth it? At 8 attacks base it seems like it'd get a /lot/ more use out of it than a regular or even chariot herald.
For people who don't know,the slothful claws relic increases the strength and AP of their basic claw attack by 1 (to 6 and -2 respectively), and increase the -4 rend chances from 6s to 4s
vaklor4 wrote: For Slaanesh's Contorted Epitome, is Slothful Claws worth it? At 8 attacks base it seems like it'd get a /lot/ more use out of it than a regular or even chariot herald.
For people who don't know,the slothful claws relic increases the strength and AP of their basic claw attack by 1 (to 6 and -2 respectively), and increase the -4 rend chances from 6s to 4s
Has the Epitome been changed? It used to be 2 attacks base, then 8 extra attacks with the Heralds' claws. Meaning that, if replaced with Slothful Claws, you wouldn't get the eight extra.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
vaklor4 wrote: For Slaanesh's Contorted Epitome, is Slothful Claws worth it? At 8 attacks base it seems like it'd get a /lot/ more use out of it than a regular or even chariot herald.
For people who don't know,the slothful claws relic increases the strength and AP of their basic claw attack by 1 (to 6 and -2 respectively), and increase the -4 rend chances from 6s to 4s
Has the Epitome been changed? It used to be 2 attacks base, then 8 extra attacks with the Heralds' claws. Meaning that, if replaced with Slothful Claws, you wouldn't get the eight extra.
You got it backwards, it makes 8 attacks with its claws and then 2 extra attacks with the mirror's coils
vaklor4 wrote: For Slaanesh's Contorted Epitome, is Slothful Claws worth it? At 8 attacks base it seems like it'd get a /lot/ more use out of it than a regular or even chariot herald.
For people who don't know,the slothful claws relic increases the strength and AP of their basic claw attack by 1 (to 6 and -2 respectively), and increase the -4 rend chances from 6s to 4s
Has the Epitome been changed? It used to be 2 attacks base, then 8 extra attacks with the Heralds' claws. Meaning that, if replaced with Slothful Claws, you wouldn't get the eight extra.
You got it backwards, it makes 8 attacks with its claws and then 2 extra attacks with the mirror's coils
Okay, so it has been changed.
When it originally came out, it was two attacks base, and got eight extra.
Clocks for the clockmaker! Cogs for the cog throne!
Of all of the lists, I liked this one the best, as it's a monster-mash, filled with big stompy models. I understand this may not be the most competitive list in the world, but I am intrigued by the gameplay choices it forces, and I'd love to hear your opinions, so I can better understand how to play something like this.
My questions:
1. Which psychic powers to take on each, and why, given the rules about duplication of powers. What role does this give each of the Greater Daemons?
2. Which warlord trait(s) would you lean into for most match-ups?
3. Given the above two, are there instances where you would select the exalted ability, as opposed to rolling randomly for two? Again, why, and what role does this allow each of the GDs to take on?
Thanks in advance, I'm genuinely interested in any and all responses that aren't 'That list is crap, isn't competitive, and you should play something else'.
I'll answer the third question because that one's easy for me after play testing.
Of the greater demons, the Lord of Change is generally the only one of the 4 that you wanna choose your power on, if only because a few of them are very match up reliant.
The other 3 can very much just be rolled for, unless you have an incredibly specific game plan. 2 buffs that are ok are in my opinion better than picking the very best one, and you have the added benefit of being able to double up on them, where picking has to be unique entirely each time.
If you DO pick on the Great Unclean One though, pick the 4+ FNP. It's absolutely bonkers good and easily the best.
For the KoS, both the -1 to wound from ranged and the 4++ are great. Depending on the match up you may want to pick either or.
Just a random idea of dodging the metagame that push towards multiple dmg weapons and high strenght AT aswell.
I know most established competetive list abuse exaltation of greater daemons (slaneesh triple keeper particulary but some nurgle/tzeentch mixes aswell).
What if we only pick heroes that benefit from lookout sir rule and then, just swarm the board with the absurd amount of infantry to make those multimelta devastators cry ?
Here is the list:
You can run it as daemons batalion and thousand sons outrider or you can go with double daemons patrol , you loose 2cp but gain slaneesh locus. I prefer batalion but its up to you:
Syll’esske
Uraka the warfiend
Changecaster as warlord with daemon spark
30 daemonnets with icon and instrument
2x 30 daemonnets with icon
30 pink horrors
20 bloodletters with icon and banner of 3d6 charge
Cult of magic
Ahriman
Daemon prince of tzeentch
Wings, talons
3x1 chaos spawn
Its kinda like old plaguebearrers spam list with all the heroes hiding behind the wall of bodies but since you cant stack modifiers you pick more bodies of cheaper daemons that can actually deal significant amount of damage instead of just being bodies.
We have deepstriking letterbomb that provide los for slingshotted uraka,
we have pinkhorror bomb under TSDP, who does a lot of mortal wounds and is ready to heroic intervenue if you charge them
We have plenty of daemonetts under syllesske buffs , if they keep their numbers they can eat anything on charge.
I want to swarm the board, and kill stuff asap with my high burst damage.
What are your thoughts ?
I played lists like this throughout 8th edition. They were excellent semi-competitive lists. Not going to win any major events, but formidable enough to give any opponent, casual or competitive, a good fight.
I imagine this style of list would continue to do well in 9th where everyone's teching to kill intercessors and gravis.
Jabberscythe wrote: Just a random idea of dodging the metagame that push towards multiple dmg weapons and high strenght AT aswell.
I know most established competetive list abuse exaltation of greater daemons (slaneesh triple keeper particulary but some nurgle/tzeentch mixes aswell).
What if we only pick heroes that benefit from lookout sir rule and then, just swarm the board with the absurd amount of infantry to make those multimelta devastators cry ?
Here is the list:
You can run it as daemons batalion and thousand sons outrider or you can go with double daemons patrol , you loose 2cp but gain slaneesh locus. I prefer batalion but its up to you:
Syll’esske
Uraka the warfiend
Changecaster as warlord with daemon spark
30 daemonnets with icon and instrument
2x 30 daemonnets with icon
30 pink horrors
20 bloodletters with icon and banner of 3d6 charge
Cult of magic
Ahriman
Daemon prince of tzeentch
Wings, talons
3x1 chaos spawn
Its kinda like old plaguebearrers spam list with all the heroes hiding behind the wall of bodies but since you cant stack modifiers you pick more bodies of cheaper daemons that can actually deal significant amount of damage instead of just being bodies.
We have deepstriking letterbomb that provide los for slingshotted uraka,
we have pinkhorror bomb under TSDP, who does a lot of mortal wounds and is ready to heroic intervenue if you charge them
We have plenty of daemonetts under syllesske buffs , if they keep their numbers they can eat anything on charge.
I want to swarm the board, and kill stuff asap with my high burst damage.
What are your thoughts ?
With 90 (NINETY!) Daemonettes, I would absolutely spend the 2 CP opportunity cost for the ability to advance and charge with all those slicey dicey daemon women. I was gonna say think about swapping in the Contorted Epitome for trapping stuff in combat, but after rereading Sylleske I’d say that’s the right call. Overall I highly approve and I like the list a lot. I’d go farther than the previous poster and say that this is better than semi competitive and has some real legs.
I’ve been theory crafting something very similar in overall concept but instead of going Tzeentch and slaanesh I’ve gone with Tzeentch and Nurgle (since most of my Daemons collection was from abusing screamer star and plague drone star in 7th Ed ). It’s got the same 30 man pink blob and 20 man bloodletter bomb for the utility they provide, but beasts, nurglings and the now-staple Unkillable Big Bird for mortal woundage. Very similar TSons detachment to boot. Have look and let me know what you think of you will:
Got this list idea after listening and reading about a couple cool Daemon Heavy (my one true 40k love) lists that appeared on Goonhammer and the Art of War podcast. The research I did inspired me to want to hybridize TJ Lannigans Magnus and Big Bird list with the Big Bird and Beasts of Nurgle lists that have seen some tournament success. To that end I kitted out a DP to be “Mini Mags” with +2 to cast and good targeted and splash MW output. The idea being that it hangs out amongst the horrors and beasts with character protection, moves + advances ahead of the lines to cast all his powers (probably spending 1 CP often to cast three), and then gets warptimed back into the pocket of horrors/ beasts. Until it’s time for the DP to go punch an opportune target anyway. Big bird and Ahriman contribute to the MW output with smites and targeted MW powers, beasts take midfield with herald support and the horrors do their best to clear screens, tarpit, hold objectives and generally be annoying with some points left over for splitting. One unit of bloodletters to drop in and flip an objective or kill something that is extra threatening to the beasts and Big Bird. Nurglings gonna Nurgling. Would love to hear your thoughts.
Just to quickly echo @ astro_nomicon’s feedback to @ Jabberscythe, and add that it’d be worth juggling a Horror or two to make those three Daemonette hordes all have an Instrument - sixty melee specialists should not be scrimping on an upgrade that’s the difference in falling short of a charge by 2”
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/10 10:10:33
My most recent bookmarks for codices have gone defunct and shut down.
Does anyone have a link to a new MEGA or VK with the codices?
DM me here, or at warhammer.resources@gmail.com
"[We have] an inheritance which is beyond the reach of change and decay." 1 Peter 1.4
"With the Emperor there is no variation or shadow due to change." James 1.17
“Fear the Emperor; do not associate with those who are given to change.” Proverbs 24.21
While the new disgustingly resilient works real nice on plague marines, with their base 2w stats, it seems like a kick in the guts to nurgle daemons right?
I had a plan to put together a blob of 30 plaguebearers with a really unique look, but I think I'll hold fire until the new codex drops as at the moment they look like trash. Talk about going from hero to zero!
So I have noticed in several tourney meta-breakdowns that Daemons of Chaos are doing really well, like top three well. What's up with that? Is it a specific skew build?
NinthMusketeer wrote: So I have noticed in several tourney meta-breakdowns that Daemons of Chaos are doing really well, like top three well. What's up with that? Is it a specific skew build?
There’s definitely a few themes to the Daemons builds that are taking down tourneys but the lists are actually pretty surprisingly diverse. From what I’ve been reading I’d say the two most prevalent themes would be “All of the Keepers + support” and “Unkillable Big Bird with Beasts + support”. The support is where a lot of the flavor comes in and there’s plenty to pick from in the daemons codex and a bewildering amount of options if you’re down to soup with any flavor of chaos marines. Bloodletters, Horrors, Flamers of both varieties, Screamers, Fiends, Daemonettes, Furies have all had showings at lists that went 4-0 or better in bigger tourneys. There was one that I saw got first at a GT that I thought was super neat. It was Big Bird, Magnus, Ahriman, a DP, 30 horrors (with 50 points left for splitting) and then a bunch of nurglings. Just a ton of MW output with good screening and enough damage from the cc potential of all the characters and horrors shooting to round it out.
). It’s got the same 30 man pink blob and 20 man bloodletter bomb for the utility they provide, but beasts, nurglings and the now-staple Unkillable Big Bird for mortal woundage. Very similar TSons detachment to boot. Have look and let me know what you think of you will:
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