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Dakkadakka,

I'm looking at adding my first two Leman Russ Battle Tanks to my defense force. I would like a dedicated "tank hunter" but, I can't decide on a Vanquisher or the Battle Tank. The second tank would be focused on "light armor/troop hunter" and I think the Exterminator is a solid choice for that job. So really I seeking some advice from you all as I'm rather new to AM.

Mr. Raynor

Well seeing as you need ap1-2 to just blow up a vehicle then the vanquisher is your choice. Its takes 2d6 and adds them together plus the weapons strength. The battle cannon rolls 2 d6 and picks the highest of the 2. So the vanquisher will pen more often than the battle cannon and the battle cannon can only glance av14 the battle cannon cant blow up a vehicles unless its open topped where the vanquisher can blow up a vehicle.

The battle tank also is ordnance so if you fire the main gun it snap fires everything else. The vanquisher doesnt have that restriction so you can have a lascannon and multimelta sponsons to add more anti tank and fie them all at normal ballistic skill.

Ok cool. So the Vanquisher for my tank hunting...what do you think about the Exterminator for light armor and troop targets?

Pask punisher with multimeltas and lascannon is one of the best tank hunters in the entire game - not just the dex. Especially if you make him your warlord.
That is 20 bs4 st5 rending shots, rerolling 1's to hit, rerolling all failed pens. So 15-16 hits, 5-6 rends. A rend is an auto pen on av10 and 11 and at least a glance on av12.
You then also have a tank hunting lascannon and two tank hunting multimeltas at bs4, rerolling 1's to hit.

Anti tank: LC/PC Vanquisher, can down any tank, and then smash Meq/Teq/MCs.

Anti light targets: Exterminator with 3HB. Enough shots to? HP out AV10/11, and can tear up Fire Warriors/Necron Warriors/Eldar/Bugs/Guardsmen.

A single Vanquisher isn't going to do a lot. I'd take 2 with hull las cannons. That loadout has severed me pretty well, provided it was buffed with Prescience from a Primaris Psycher.

PC on the vanquisher are a decent option to buff it's loadout however.

Yup, punisher pask is an absolute boss, he can even put the smackdown on waveserpents and landraiders. Though he needs to get within 24". He does at least triple the damage of a vanquisher and his weapons are good against non-vehicles too.

The dakka it puts out is insane, just keep a good bubble wrap on him.

 More Dakka wrote:
A single Vanquisher isn't going to do a lot. I'd take 2 with hull las cannons. That loadout has severed me pretty well, provided it was buffed with Prescience from a Primaris Psycher.

As a question, is there a reason people seem to shy away from the Multimelta sponsons on Vanquishers?

 vipoid wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
A single Vanquisher isn't going to do a lot. I'd take 2 with hull las cannons. That loadout has severed me pretty well, provided it was buffed with Prescience from a Primaris Psycher.

As a question, is there a reason people seem to shy away from the Multimelta sponsons on Vanquishers?

The vanquisher cannon and lascannon are both extremly long range, multi meltas are the exact opposite (24" average weapon but super effective at 12"). It is better usually to save the points and spend them elsewhere (usually people won't buy any sponsons at all for vanquishers).

Pask on the otherhand is best with punisher cannon which has a 24" range making him always able to fire his meltas.

wtnind wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
A single Vanquisher isn't going to do a lot. I'd take 2 with hull las cannons. That loadout has severed me pretty well, provided it was buffed with Prescience from a Primaris Psycher.

As a question, is there a reason people seem to shy away from the Multimelta sponsons on Vanquishers?

The vanquisher cannon and lascannon are both extremly long range, multi meltas are the exact opposite (24" average weapon but super effective at 12"). It is better usually to save the points and spend them elsewhere (usually people won't buy any sponsons at all for vanquishers).

Pask on the otherhand is best with punisher cannon which has a 24" range making him always able to fire his meltas.

PC work well, 36" will put you in range on T2 at the latest unless the enemy deploy as far back as possible, and massively increase the target profile the tank can engage effectively.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well seeing as you need ap1-2 to just blow up a vehicle then the vanquisher is your choice. Its takes 2d6 and adds them together plus the weapons strength. The battle cannon rolls 2 d6 and picks the highest of the 2. So the vanquisher will pen more often than the battle cannon and the battle cannon can only glance av14 the battle cannon cant blow up a vehicles unless its open topped where the vanquisher can blow up a vehicle.

The battle tank also is ordnance so if you fire the main gun it snap fires everything else. The vanquisher doesnt have that restriction so you can have a lascannon and multimelta sponsons to add more anti tank and fie them all at normal ballistic skill.

Vehicles no longer have to snapshot hull guns after firing ordnance anymore.

 Las wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well seeing as you need ap1-2 to just blow up a vehicle then the vanquisher is your choice. Its takes 2d6 and adds them together plus the weapons strength. The battle cannon rolls 2 d6 and picks the highest of the 2. So the vanquisher will pen more often than the battle cannon and the battle cannon can only glance av14 the battle cannon cant blow up a vehicles unless its open topped where the vanquisher can blow up a vehicle.

The battle tank also is ordnance so if you fire the main gun it snap fires everything else. The vanquisher doesnt have that restriction so you can have a lascannon and multimelta sponsons to add more anti tank and fie them all at normal ballistic skill.

Vehicles no longer have to snapshot hull guns after firing ordnance anymore.

Please share where you've found this information. Unless there has been and FAQ recently that I haven't heard of then the brb clearly states that a vehicle that fires an ordnance weapon snap fires all other weapons. Found on page 73 bottom right of the page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wtnind wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
A single Vanquisher isn't going to do a lot. I'd take 2 with hull las cannons. That loadout has severed me pretty well, provided it was buffed with Prescience from a Primaris Psycher.

As a question, is there a reason people seem to shy away from the Multimelta sponsons on Vanquishers?

The vanquisher cannon and lascannon are both extremly long range, multi meltas are the exact opposite (24" average weapon but super effective at 12"). It is better usually to save the points and spend them elsewhere (usually people won't buy any sponsons at all for vanquishers).

Pask on the otherhand is best with punisher cannon which has a 24" range making him always able to fire his meltas.

Although in just about every single game (except against Gunline based armies) the enemy will move to grab objectives and will get in close range and possible assault your army meaning unless your opponent destroys your russes from a distance(very difficult to do with av14 and possible cover) then the enemy will get close enough to fire MM's at them. Most mechanized armies rely on their infantry getting in close to actually be able to do damage so you will have multiple vehicles closing in.

But plasma cannon sponsons are indeed what I tend to use from time to time. I switch between the two frequently depending on what my army lacks

 tankboy145 wrote:


Although in just about every single game (except against Gunline based armies) the enemy will move to grab objectives and will get in close range and possible assault your army meaning unless your opponent destroys your russes from a distance(very difficult to do with av14 and possible cover) then the enemy will get close enough to fire MM's at them. Most mechanized armies rely on their infantry getting in close to actually be able to do damage so you will have multiple vehicles closing in.

But plasma cannon sponsons are indeed what I tend to use from time to time. I switch between the two frequently depending on what my army lacks

While this is true, you may want to focus your vanquishers on targetting the far away enemy units rather than the ones that are moving up close to assault you. If you only had 30 points spare in your list and you had a vanquisher and a pask, which would you give the meltas too? or put another way I'd rather have a couple more power axes in my blob or another 10 bodies than a gun I will likely fire once at most once because I will be trying to make maximum use of my long range (not that I tend to take vanquishers anyway though)

 Las wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well seeing as you need ap1-2 to just blow up a vehicle then the vanquisher is your choice. Its takes 2d6 and adds them together plus the weapons strength. The battle cannon rolls 2 d6 and picks the highest of the 2. So the vanquisher will pen more often than the battle cannon and the battle cannon can only glance av14 the battle cannon cant blow up a vehicles unless its open topped where the vanquisher can blow up a vehicle.

The battle tank also is ordnance so if you fire the main gun it snap fires everything else. The vanquisher doesnt have that restriction so you can have a lascannon and multimelta sponsons to add more anti tank and fie them all at normal ballistic skill.

Vehicles no longer have to snapshot hull guns after firing ordnance anymore.

This is not correct.

Under 'Vehicles and Ordnance Weapons': a vehicle that fires an ordnance weapon can only make snap shots with other weapons that turn.

 tankboy145 wrote:

 Las wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Well seeing as you need ap1-2 to just blow up a vehicle then the vanquisher is your choice. Its takes 2d6 and adds them together plus the weapons strength. The battle cannon rolls 2 d6 and picks the highest of the 2. So the vanquisher will pen more often than the battle cannon and the battle cannon can only glance av14 the battle cannon cant blow up a vehicles unless its open topped where the vanquisher can blow up a vehicle.

The battle tank also is ordnance so if you fire the main gun it snap fires everything else. The vanquisher doesnt have that restriction so you can have a lascannon and multimelta sponsons to add more anti tank and fie them all at normal ballistic skill.

Vehicles no longer have to snapshot hull guns after firing ordnance anymore.

Please share where you've found this information. Unless there has been and FAQ recently that I haven't heard of then the brb clearly states that a vehicle that fires an ordnance weapon snap fires all other weapons. Found on page 73 bottom right of the page.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

wtnind wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 More Dakka wrote:
A single Vanquisher isn't going to do a lot. I'd take 2 with hull las cannons. That loadout has severed me pretty well, provided it was buffed with Prescience from a Primaris Psycher.

As a question, is there a reason people seem to shy away from the Multimelta sponsons on Vanquishers?

The vanquisher cannon and lascannon are both extremly long range, multi meltas are the exact opposite (24" average weapon but super effective at 12"). It is better usually to save the points and spend them elsewhere (usually people won't buy any sponsons at all for vanquishers).

Pask on the otherhand is best with punisher cannon which has a 24" range making him always able to fire his meltas.

Although in just about every single game (except against Gunline based armies) the enemy will move to grab objectives and will get in close range and possible assault your army meaning unless your opponent destroys your russes from a distance(very difficult to do with av14 and possible cover) then the enemy will get close enough to fire MM's at them. Most mechanized armies rely on their infantry getting in close to actually be able to do damage so you will have multiple vehicles closing in.

But plasma cannon sponsons are indeed what I tend to use from time to time. I switch between the two frequently depending on what my army lacks

The reason I'm more partial to PC sponsons is that you get shots off from T1 in most circumstances, while the MM you're getting to use from T2 on average but it's not going to shine until T3 onwards.

Now, keep in mind I take Pask in a Punisher with LC and MM as my HQ, so I really don't need the additional MM's in most cases. At 1500 I run him with a King Plasma Executioner and then just take a pair of Vanquishers with hull LC to fill in my really long range gap.

Oh I agree I used to always take plasma cannons on my vanqs and still tend to do so from time to time.

I would agree that pask would be much better in a punisher with an executioner buddy. So most of the time my vanquishers haven't really been given sponsons.

Most of the time I prefer to give any russ sponsons when it's not ordnance is because it's one of a few vehicles that can move and fire all of it's weapons so it only makes sense to load the vehicle up and give them more killing power.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Pask punisher with multimeltas and lascannon is one of the best tank hunters in the entire game - not just the dex. Especially if you make him your warlord.
That is 20 bs4 st5 rending shots, rerolling 1's to hit, rerolling all failed pens. So 15-16 hits, 5-6 rends. A rend is an auto pen on av10 and 11 and at least a glance on av12.
You then also have a tank hunting lascannon and two tank hunting multimeltas at bs4, rerolling 1's to hit.

Er, sounds nice, but you have to get close to enemy tanks, to make the two MM works. While the Vanquisher can blow up enemy tank from turn 1.

The Pask Punisher seems to be the way to run him. He was putting in serious work today, including machine gunning a Knight Errant to death in a single round of shooting. That performance is spectacular.

What I prefer about the Punisher vs. The Vanq is that it can really one-shot many nasty targets like MCs and vehicles whereas the Vanq can one shot a vehicle alone and depends on you rolling a 5+ on the damage table to do it. Often times the Punisher will strip enough HP that a favorable damage result isn't something you have to pray for.

 Malik_Raynor wrote:
Ok cool. So the Vanquisher for my tank hunting...what do you think about the Exterminator for light armor and troop targets?

Vanq with MM sponsons, lascannon hull, and some infantry support. Shove it right into enemy lines. Big enemy tank go boomboom.

Neophyte2012 wrote:

Poly Ranger wrote:
Pask punisher with multimeltas and lascannon is one of the best tank hunters in the entire game - not just the dex. Especially if you make him your warlord.
That is 20 bs4 st5 rending shots, rerolling 1's to hit, rerolling all failed pens. So 15-16 hits, 5-6 rends. A rend is an auto pen on av10 and 11 and at least a glance on av12.
You then also have a tank hunting lascannon and two tank hunting multimeltas at bs4, rerolling 1's to hit.

Er, sounds nice, but you have to get close to enemy tanks, to make the two MM works. While the Vanquisher can blow up enemy tank from turn 1.

Did you read that? WITHOUT the multimeltas pask punisher is causing ~5 to 6hp of damage against av12, which means 3 to 4 hp of damage against av13. You then factor in a tankhunting lascannon AND two tank hunting multimeltas (they have 24" range), rerolling ones to hit, thus, even without being in melta range, you have a dead tank! 6" move + 24" range = 30" threat range. Unless you opponent is putting his entire army on the very back of his backline, something will be in range turn1.
And if you bring cover into it - cover affects the chances a single shot vanquisher cannon far more than a 20 shot punisher cannon.

wtnind wrote:

The vanquisher cannon and lascannon are both extremly long range, multi meltas are the exact opposite (24" average weapon but super effective at 12"). It is better usually to save the points and spend them elsewhere (usually people won't buy any sponsons at all for vanquishers).

I guess I'm just dubious of the ability of the main gun and lascannon to kill tanks.

I mean, the main gun is good at penetrating armour, but when you've only got one shot and need a 6 to explode them it just seems a bit unreliable.

Or, am I missing something?

 vipoid wrote:

wtnind wrote:

The vanquisher cannon and lascannon are both extremly long range, multi meltas are the exact opposite (24" average weapon but super effective at 12"). It is better usually to save the points and spend them elsewhere (usually people won't buy any sponsons at all for vanquishers).

I guess I'm just dubious of the ability of the main gun and lascannon to kill tanks.

I mean, the main gun is good at penetrating armour, but when you've only got one shot and need a 6 to explode them it just seems a bit unreliable.

Or, am I missing something?

Nail on the head.

I totally agree, that's why i say don't bother with the multimeltas but i also say don't bother with a vanquisher! Why sink more points into a below average unit.

To be fair to the Vanqs, get a trio of them in a squadron, put lascannons on each, and use a Primaris Psyker to twin-link their guns:


Big-game Hunting Sqn:

-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]

-Primaris [50 pts]

[Total: 485 pts]

Use it on a player that takes big heavy tanks like Land Raiders and kill a pair in a game, you'll probably manage to stop at least one of them before it fires (if they're the LC variants). If they are Crusaders/Redeemers, all the better.
And it adds a bunch of Av14 to the list you use.

It's costly, but has it's uses.

 Selym wrote:
To be fair to the Vanqs, get a trio of them in a squadron, put lascannons on each, and use a Primaris Psyker to twin-link their guns:


Big-game Hunting Sqn:

-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]

-Primaris [50 pts]

[Total: 485 pts]

Use it on a player that takes big heavy tanks like Land Raiders and kill a pair in a game, you'll probably manage to stop at least one of them before it fires (if they're the LC variants). If they are Crusaders/Redeemers, all the better.
And it adds a bunch of Av14 to the list you use.

It's costly, but has it's uses.

I'll be honest, unless you're hunting Baneblades that seems like a hell of a lot to spend on a squad that can, at best, take down a single vehicle per turn.

 Selym wrote:
To be fair to the Vanqs, get a trio of them in a squadron, put lascannons on each, and use a Primaris Psyker to twin-link their guns:


Big-game Hunting Sqn:

-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]

-Primaris [50 pts]

[Total: 485 pts]

Use it on a player that takes big heavy tanks like Land Raiders and kill a pair in a game, you'll probably manage to stop at least one of them before it fires (if they're the LC variants). If they are Crusaders/Redeemers, all the better.
And it adds a bunch of Av14 to the list you use.

It's costly, but has it's uses.

In a tourney list that's 1/3 to 1/4 of your army that is only putting out 6 shots onto a single target. What happens if the opponent has nothing worth shooting that at?

 NuggzTheNinja wrote:

 Selym wrote:
To be fair to the Vanqs, get a trio of them in a squadron, put lascannons on each, and use a Primaris Psyker to twin-link their guns:


Big-game Hunting Sqn:

-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]
-Vanq w/LC [145 pts]

-Primaris [50 pts]

[Total: 485 pts]

Use it on a player that takes big heavy tanks like Land Raiders and kill a pair in a game, you'll probably manage to stop at least one of them before it fires (if they're the LC variants). If they are Crusaders/Redeemers, all the better.
And it adds a bunch of Av14 to the list you use.

It's costly, but has it's uses.

In a tourney list that's 1/3 to 1/4 of your army that is only putting out 6 shots onto a single target. What happens if the opponent has nothing worth shooting that at?

I never said it's good for TAC, you have to know the opponent before investing in it.
I only put it up as an example of potentially useful long-range AT support.

Well from what the thread has decided the best anti tank is: a punisher with pask, LC, MM's.

Next up behind that is a vanquisher with pask, LC, then PC or MM sponsons.

Now if we take away pask what is the best anti tank russ? Pretty sure the vanquisher unless I'm missing something. I only mention this as someone may not want to take a tank commander.

 tankboy145 wrote:
Now if we take away pask what is the best anti tank russ? Pretty sure the vanquisher unless I'm missing something. I only mention this as someone may not want to take a tank commander.

The Vanquisher is almost certainly the best... but I'm still not sure it's very good at its job.

I mean, even without the sponsons, it's still pretty damn expensive for a measly 2 shots at BS3 - neither of which are AP1.

 vipoid wrote:

 tankboy145 wrote:
Now if we take away pask what is the best anti tank russ? Pretty sure the vanquisher unless I'm missing something. I only mention this as someone may not want to take a tank commander.

The Vanquisher is almost certainly the best... but I'm still not sure it's very good at its job.

I mean, even without the sponsons, it's still pretty damn expensive for a measly 2 shots at BS3 - neither of which are AP1.

Mmm. It is rather disappointing.

Still, when in doubt, you can always go to the old IG standby, and bring in some artillery. Or for a more modern approach, a Vendetta, to do the job more efficiently.