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so, can you guys tell me your opinions on my fluff chapter The Angels of Retribution?

colors- red, black, silver, gold.

Founding chapter- Unknown, strong evidence towards dark angels.

Primarch- unkown

organization- Codex, with modifications

modifications- chapter is 12000 strong. each 1000 men are broken down into sub chapters (like companies) which areen broken down as per codex layout. each sub chapter can operate independently of the Chapter-legion and grand master Zaharial but are not independent of them and answer to him and what he says. (think a more open DA chapter+successor idea). The two main reasons this is left alone is 1. They send in gene seed tithes as 12 chapters, and 2. there number of victories for the empire is staggering.

due to this each chapter has slowly become more specialized in fighting unique enemies, due to this each chapter has its own tactical doctrine (my little way of playing them as count as depending on my mood )

they operate throughout the galaxy but have a main sub-sector, sub sector Augustus, from which most of their new recruits come.


would this chapter be probable to most of you?

Well the only problem I have is the size of the chapter. Chapters can only have thousand or so marines (If I recall correctly). But apart from that, I'd buy it

the only real thing stopping them form going over is following the codex... its the bit that could be controversial but the Imperium's got bigger fish to fry then a chapter thats won it several victories (much like the 5k man + black templars)

I would say make them a larger chapter, due to their success, at about 1200 marines and each company operates in the looser, specialised manner you suggest.

"Following the Codex" is a pretty big deal when it comes to "cheating" at the numbers game. The reason behind Chapters as opposed to Legions was preventing another Horus Heresy level event. The Imperium came own pretty hard on the Astral Claws.

The Black Templars get away with it because they're spread out all across the galaxy and plot armor.

 raiden wrote:
the only real thing stopping them form going over is following the codex... its the bit that could be controversial but the Imperium's got bigger fish to fry then a chapter thats won it several victories (much like the 5k man + black templars)

The BT get by because they are, one, technically a First Founding Chapter (they're Imperial Fists that didn't stop the Great Crusade) and, two, the BT don't sit on one place as a whole. Ever. They're spread throughout the Imperium on various Crusades.

The Inquisition (specifically Ordo Hereticus) would have *serious* problems with this mini-Legion. This would be the sort of level where the =I= would consider invading the planet, decide it's too much trouble, and glass it from orbit.

Don't the Dark Angels keep pretty good tabs on all of their successors. It seems odd that an Unforgiven chapter would have an off-shoot they weren't aware off.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Don't the Dark Angels keep pretty good tabs on all of their successors. It seems odd that an Unforgiven chapter would have an off-shoot they weren't aware off.

This is correct. the Unforgiven have closer ties then other space marine chapters.

and I actually believe there already IS a successor chapter named the Angels of Retribution.

Ralis wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Don't the Dark Angels keep pretty good tabs on all of their successors. It seems odd that an Unforgiven chapter would have an off-shoot they weren't aware off.

This is correct. the Unforgiven have closer ties then other space marine chapters.

and I actually believe there already IS a successor chapter named the Angels of Retribution.

No. You're thinking Angels of Redemption.

However apparently his chapter was destroyed by the Official Assassinorum. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Angels_of_Retribution#.VBuC_vldWf0

Well, I guess that's what you get for trying to have 12,000 Marines.

Well durn. I guess so. Easy fix. One marine survived and could easily have them officially different chapters yet not different. And either way the idea is for them to be all over the galaxy. Each sub chapter in a sector populated the most by a certain enemy. Like the BT. I'm not buying it that they are only special snowflake


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Or. Any ideas for a different name?

If you really want a large chapter I would have to say no more than 2,000. Some of the chapters like Space Wolves and Black Templars can get away with slightly larger numbers because of their reputation earned over a long period of time.

 fox-light713 wrote:
If you really want a large chapter I would have to say no more than 2,000. Some of the chapters like Space Wolves and Black Templars can get away with slightly larger numbers because of their reputation earned over a long period of time.

The Space Wolves are the guys the Emprah sent to exterminate Space Marine LEGIONS. If you are an inquisitor, and they tell you they have 1000 Marines, you just clench your butt cheeks, nod your head, and locate the nearest exit as fast as you can.

To the thread itself, I don't see anything wrong with Chapter other than the fact the Chapter MIGHT be Dark Angels. They either are, or they are not. The Unforgiven just don't work any other way.

Yeah, you gota reign in the numbers. As much as I normally say "anything is possible", in this case I have to say 12,000 is beyond the realm of possibility.

10000? Even 1k, marines each sub chapter

 raiden wrote:
10000? Even 1k, marines each sub chapter

10000 would be greater than the sum of all of the first founding chapters. 10000 is Legion size, not chapter size.

The Space Wolves are the guys the Emprah sent to exterminate Space Marine LEGIONS. If you are an inquisitor, and they tell you they have 1000 Marines, you just clench your butt cheeks, nod your head, and locate the nearest exit as fast as you can.

And were Legion-sized themselves, at the time. Currently? There's like 1500-2000 Space Wolves. Above the Codex, sure, but not to a huge degree.

A Chapter of 10,000 Marines isn't going to fly with the fluff-as-written (FAW... that should be a new Dakka acronym).

Yeah, 10k is right out into Crazytown. I'd say you can push maybe to around 2000 if you really stretch, but no way on 10k.

legion size is 50k+ :/

Legions were HUGE. But legions do not persist into 40k. There are no legions anymore(unless you consider traitor legions). The best you could do to justify huge numbers like that is say they were one of mystery legions, and that while they split they always still answered to the master of the primary(first founding) chapter. I don't know how else to say that the legions were split up and NOT allowed to continue after the codex was brought about.

The closest things in 40k to legions are the Black Templars, and the Dark Angels. You'd be going the DA route only even more stringent, and it still wouldn't quite fit right.

hm. I like that, I had almost forgotten I could use one of the missing primarchs for my chapters. haha. I COULD have them renegade but then that opens up a HUGE can of worms. lol.

I suggest going the SW route. Have 10 Companies within the Chapter, but (since these guys aren't a First Founding Chapter) have them scattered across a wide range of space, with each Company having about 120-150 Battle-Brothers each.

This leaves you with 1200-1500 members of the Chapter in total, but they escape censure by being spread out over a wide area, rather than concentrated in one place.

AFAIK the Black Templars is 5000-6000 strong, and close to 10.000 if you count the all the neophytes. They have avoided the Inquisition due the fact that everytime the inquisitors came close to finding out their actual numbers, some wierd gak always happened to them.

The 5-6K is including the Neophytes. Also, they aren't in one place, they're spread all over the eastern half of the galaxy (and sometimes show up on the other side, too). There are never more than a few hundred BT in any one place at a time

C: BT 4E wrote:Black Templar Marines also set themselves apart from standard Codex doctrine by including Neophytes into squads of fully initiated Marines to help teach them the ways of battle and the art of combat.

C: BT 4E wrote:Neophytes are the new recruits of the Black Templars. Unlike other Codex Chapters, new recruits are not organised into a single company. Instead, each Neophyte joins a Fighting Company as the apprentice of a senior Initiate. While the Black Templars do not have a dedicated Scout company, Neophytes often fulfill this role, beginning their service with lighter armour and weapons than the Initiates. A Neophyte will learn quickly from his tutor or die if he cannot. When the Initiate and Chaplains deem that the Neophyte has proven himself satisfactory in courage and skill, he is elevated to the rank of Initiate and will take his place in the Fighting Company. Should the Initiate in charge of a Neophyte die before the Neophyte's training is complete, his training and instruction will be taken over by another Initiate, if that Initiate finds the Neophyte worthy of his tutelage.