Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The BRB is a touch unclear on the order of saves for D weapons, do you roll for each wound caused, or for the D wound as a whole for saves?

Example:

D blast hits a TH/SS terminator and rolls a 3 for the D table, and rolls a 2 on the D3, so 3 wounds total. Does the terminator roll one 3++ to save for the whole shebang, or 3 3++ saves?

I'm inclined to say 3 seperate saves.

They do not cause multiple wounds they cause "Multiple Wounds". The fantasy version explicitly states that a save ignore all wounds from a multiwound attack (cannon ball, etc).

For the a touch of RAW support see the Destroyer weapon section for:

" Multiple Wounds/Hull Points inflicted by a Destroyer hit do not carry over to other models in the unit (any excess are lost)."

Note the singular tense of "hit". This indicates that you are doing a single hit that can happen to remove multiple wounds from the same guy, not multiple hits to the same guy, each of which would need a save.

You save wounds, though, not hits.

I totally understand they don't carry over to other models, the question is with X many wounds, would they take X many saves or one save? I believe in 6e it was vs the D hit, but this edition seems kinda funky.

My reading and the explicit WHFB writing is that if you take d3 or d6 wounds from a multi-wound attack, then you avoid all the damage if you make your 1 save.

It's not 40k canon, but it should handle the RAI for HYWPI.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/332066.page

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
My reading and the explicit WHFB writing is that if you take d3 or d6 wounds from a multi-wound attack, then you avoid all the damage if you make your 1 save.

It's not 40k canon, but it should handle the RAI for HYWPI.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/332066.page

WHFB and 40k aren't similar enough to use as a basis for an argument.
You get one save per wound. 3 wounds, 3 saves. Because in 40k you can only save on wounds, not hits.

rigeld2 wrote:

RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote:
My reading and the explicit WHFB writing is that if you take d3 or d6 wounds from a multi-wound attack, then you avoid all the damage if you make your 1 save.

It's not 40k canon, but it should handle the RAI for HYWPI.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/332066.page

WHFB and 40k aren't similar enough to use as a basis for an argument.
You get one save per wound. 3 wounds, 3 saves. Because in 40k you can only save on wounds, not hits.

You sound very authoritative on that, but I didn't see any rules quote stating it as such. Does it exist or is that just HYWPI?

Edit:
Here's another (inconclusive) thread:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/606737.page#7050728

I'm in the 1 save = 0 wounds camp for HIWPI unless there is actual rules evidence stating otherwise.

The destroyer hit explicitly states that the wound causes a loss of d3/6 wounds. If a single model gets hit from a deeper weapon and the destroyer weapon didn't roll a 6 then the model looses d3 wounds if they fail their save. They don't have to make d3 saves.

If the model was the last man in the squad, and got shot by five enemy models. Three hit and two wound, the player would have to take 2 saves - at least, that's how I've been playing it for as long as I can remember.

I don't see how or why a D type weapon is different. 3 wounds given, three saves needed.

I state it every time something along this vain occurs; Why do we have a process for resolving Wounds and a Wound Characteristic, with both simply called 'wounds...?'

In this situation I side with Mulletdude however, as the Rule is:
The model suffers a hit that wounds automatically and causes it to lose D3 Wounds instead of 1

When does a Model loose Wounds in the Shooting Sequence?
This rule targets that part, replacing 1 with D3.

One save for every autohit wound, so one save for every hit.

This is not wound pool, hist is wound than may inflict D3

What does the shooting section state about taking saves?

Can't have put it better myself: (I amaze myself sometimes lol)

 BlackTalos wrote:
D weapons is an automatic wound (which is what is allocated), but that 1 automatic wound "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

you are not "causing D3 wounds"
you are "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

Which is the "reduce that model's Wounds by 1" from the Saves rule.

So:
The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model's Wounds by D3 Wounds instead of 1.

D weapon hit: Roll a Save. Failed your save? D3 Wounds taken down. Passed your save? No wounds from the D

 BlackTalos wrote:
Can't have put it better myself: (I amaze myself sometimes lol)

 BlackTalos wrote:
D weapons is an automatic wound (which is what is allocated), but that 1 automatic wound "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

you are not "causing D3 wounds"
you are "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

Which is the "reduce that model's Wounds by 1" from the Saves rule.

So:
The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model's Wounds by D3 Wounds instead of 1.

D weapon hit: Roll a Save. Failed your save? D3 Wounds taken down. Passed your save? No wounds from the D

So you can show permission to roll saves against hits (and I'm not referring to Pens or Glances)?

So, here's the ordering of the D weapon result 2-5:

"The model suffers a hit..."

Good so far.

"...that wounds automatically..."

Okay, so here is where we would make a save, because we have a wound.

"...and causes it to lose D3 Wounds instead of 1."

The fact that it's saying "lose D3 instead of 1" means we've gone past the time for taking saves. We're at the unsaved stage where models actually lose (or reduce as in the rulebook) the wounds. Make one save per destroyer hit (since it's an auto wound). Failed save is then multiplied into the appropriate number of wounds. My read of it anyway.

I believe its one wound, which if unsaved, is multiplied into D3.

Roll to hit with D weapon
Roll to wound
Target unit rolls saves where applicable
Unsaved wounds are then rolled for and applied

Don't forget you can't take FNP against D weapons

 juraigamer wrote:
Roll to hit with D weapon
Roll to wound
Target unit rolls saves where applicable
Unsaved wounds are then rolled for and applied

Don't forget you can't take FNP against D weapons

And what do you need to roll To Wound?

A 2-5 causes 1 automatic wound. Then if that wound is unsaved, it is then multipled into D3.

 Grey Templar wrote:
A 2-5 causes 1 automatic wound. Then if that wound is unsaved, it is then multipled into D3.

Correct, there is no roll to wound.....

 Happyjew wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Can't have put it better myself: (I amaze myself sometimes lol)

 BlackTalos wrote:
D weapons is an automatic wound (which is what is allocated), but that 1 automatic wound "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

you are not "causing D3 wounds"
you are "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".

Which is the "reduce that model's Wounds by 1" from the Saves rule.

So:
The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model's Wounds by D3 Wounds instead of 1.

D weapon hit: Roll a Save. Failed your save? D3 Wounds taken down. Passed your save? No wounds from the D

So you can show permission to roll saves against hits (and I'm not referring to Pens or Glances)?

Why do i need to show that? Are you taking the short "D weapon hit: Roll a Save." literally?
Of course, as others pointed out, you are not rolling a save against Hits. The D weapons Hits, automatically wounds, and you then Roll to Save the wound.
When you follow the Saves rule ("The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model’s Wounds by 1."), you apply the wording from D Weapons:

"The model gets to make a saving throw, if it has one. If it fails, reduce that model’s Wounds by D3.",
Because you are "causes it to loose D3 Wounds instead of 1".