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Hi guys!

As you can probably tell by tge tittle ive had a problem with terrain being set up by my opponent to give themself an advantage.

I recently went up against my friend who plays grey knights and when i got to his house i was surprised to see how little terrain was actually set up. We use a rug (8foot by 5) but there was like 3 ruins and a few sandbags ect scattered around.

I cant help think that its because he had chosen to use the turn 1 deepstrike formation as thatway he wouldnt have to worry about dangerous or such.

Amyway rant over, was wondering if anyone else has the same problem? Or how they deal with it? Because when the terrain is set over at my place it's normally set up narrative based and set up alongside my brother who plays tau (so its enough terrain but not too.much so its good for both parties)

IIRC the book suggests 1d3 pieces of terrain for each 2x2 section of the table. So if you are playing on a 8x5 you should probably expect to have around 20 bits cluttering things up. A lot of things get thrown out of balance when the terrain is either to heavy or to light.

You can try to talk to your friend and get things set up so the table is a little less one sided. Or just bring over a bunch of your own and help clutter things up a bit.

There has to be terrain, and a lot of it. Period. We arent all using the same army and its an equalizer. Just be up front and honest, the game isnt fun for everyone involved.

Set up terrain together and don't determine deployment zones until the table is set.

I would brimg some of my stuff around his but as i have a motorcycle so limited to what i can actually bring and carry :p. Though i have mentioned about the lack of terrain but he seems to think that it is enough but most of the board was clear, but when i asked if it was to his benifit he said that 1st turn deepstrike is the only way he could win :p.

Also with the settings up terrain together he hasnt put effort into making terrai/ objective markers and all the other stuff you need for a game yet thinks a game can still be played to the fullest :p

(also both deployment zones were empty bar a single building so made no difference if i got to pick :p)

Yeah, when this happens, speak with your friend and ask to get more terrain on the board. Most players will not argue, and there's nothing wrong with asking.

If he's really trying to set up the board so you get crushed, you can always try to figure out what he's going to do and set up accordingly. Like, if he's going to deepstrike, space out your models so he can't land in certain areas. A 10 man tactical squad can cover 22 inches of space on a board when set up properly, 3 of them can just about cover a 5x1 foot area.

Orks and Tyranids can deny first turn deepstrikes behind their lines just by spreading out all their models on the board (provided they have the models.)

Sounds like your "table" is too large (it should only be 6"x4" at most unless you're playing apocalypse).

And a good rule of thumb is that 25% of the table should be covered in terrain. So make a quarter section and fill it with terrain.

And you can use anything as terrain. For instance when I started out we used paint cans, dvd cases, billiard balls, and a ping pong net as terrain.

 CrownAxe wrote:
And you can use anything as terrain. For instance when I started out we used paint cans, dvd cases, billiard balls, and a ping pong net as terrain.

Just watch out for rolling terrain or your models might have to "Indiana Jones" it out of there.

If you have a hard time convincing someone that Terrain is important, this is the argument I've always heard:

Most of the "tactics" you can employ in a game are going to center around trying to get into a position where you've got a big (or strong) chunk of your army up against a small (or weak) piece of theirs.

40k has some pretty long ranges on weapons compared to the size of the playing field, so if the field has too little terrain, most of your more "shooty" troops will be in range of each-other turn one, and the rest will be able to get there quickly.

With everyone so easily in range, it's hard to really do much strategic positioning. So instead of trying to out-wit each-other and create an imbalance... everybody starts fighting everybody at once.

At that point, it really becomes more a game of dice rolling than a game of tactics.

^ That's how it was explained to me when I was a new player, and it made sense, so maybe it will help you convince your friend that your games will be more fun with a fuller field.

This is also interesting as a good GK player should want more terrain as well. Low model count elitism tends to survive better with cover.

 Iechine wrote:
There has to be terrain, and a lot of it. Period. We arent all using the same army and its an equalizer. Just be up front and honest, the game isnt fun for everyone involved.

This.

Whether im playing my tau that want open battlefields with no LOS or my orks that dont give a damn because im in your side of the field turn 1 anyway, i usually load up the terrain (keeping ~5" pathways since they get annoying if narrower than that to move things around and dont really help anyone).

My philosophy is there should always been at least 1 large LoS block in the middle of the board, not necessarily directly center just somewhere in the noman's land so theres SOME form of flank possiblity without fear of longrange guns. Some people arent used to this though, kinda funny when they split their army to cover both sides of that spire even though its only protecting like 1/8th of the board...which i cant get more than a single trukk through anyway lol.

Tournament settings i dont think you have a choice, but in a friendly game if you dont like the terrain setup BEFORE the game starts, say something. If they have anything against it, then just dont play because theyre trying to be a cheap "that guy" with terrain advantages by default.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
i usually load up the terrain (keeping ~5" pathways since they get annoying if narrower than that to move things around and dont really help anyone).

agreed on this because that's also the width of a land raider, which I feel should have the option of moving around most terrain...or deciding to barrel through it.

In a friendly game I wouldn't even start to play if I do not agree on the setup. It's 3-4h of my scarce free time and I'll rather play someone else or get back in my car and do something else than playing to satisfy someone else's ego.

Just ask your opponent to add/remove terrain. You are playing the game to, your not just setting up models for your opponent to shoot at. If that's their take on the game find someone else to play with.

Personally , When I detect that my oponent is bending rules and does all kinds of little things outside the norm to put the game at his advantage I just passively sit there and watch him go thinking to myself, if I beat this guy Im going to be even more satisfied knowing that my army can still win even when the oponent tries to cheat.

If I end up losing , I tell myself that the oponent was bending rule to his favor so I dont care anyway.
I like the added challenge of a waac opponent
I ll also add that there is nothing worse that starting to argue with someone during a game.
Usually when I detect something , I mention it 1 time and then if it keeps going on I let it go otherwise I becomes just too unpleasant. My whole motivation is then channeled to winning against unfavorable odds, which just makes victory taste that much sweeter. And If I lose, well Im usually much less dissapointed when I know the oponent was "rules bending".

Bring small terrain pieces that are easy to add and carry around.
A ADL seems perfect for this, especially if you split it up as you aren't deploying it as an actual ADL.

There are some good-looking pop-up terrain kits around these days. They're card buildings, but can be folded flat. Most of that would fit in a gaming case behind the foam.

Here's one:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/600115.page#6972990