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Looks like it's starting to creep into TTG as well
https://archive.today/9GHUf

Disappointingly, the scene has changed very little in the past 47 years. In George’s 2014 essay regarding the lack of diversity at Gen Con, he touchingly writes: “As an awkward teen, like other awkward teens, I wanted to be accepted. But acceptance meant something different to me, as perhaps it does to other minority teens. Acceptance meant being white.”18 With that in mind, it is interesting to note Lakofka’s historic intersection with Gen Con, as both attendee and organizer in the early years. We must ask whether Gen Con and other related community events have ever been particularly free of problematic racist and misogynist tropes.

Wow, was at Gencon (not even close to being white) and I felt accepted and not discriminated against because of my race, nor did my gf feel like there was sexism or misogynism at Gencon. Seriously, not their shield.

Even in Gary Alan Fine’s classic book, Shared Fantasy, the distinction between reality and fantasy for role-players is considered “impermeable,” despite the sociologist’s own admission that “[frequently] non-player male characters who have not hurt the party are executed and female non-player characters raped for sport.”

Really? what kind of DM hosted that game?

Wow. Just wow. Baseless assumptions, baseless assumptions everywhere.

"Its impossible to describe male on female penetrative sex as anything other than the violent colonization of the female body by patriarchy."

A lovely quote from a professor during a gender & ethnicity class. It was at that point which I realized the magnitude of the insanity that follows the natural extension of ideological hyper-leftism.

That being said, any DM that doesn't say "way a minute, thats really fethed up" if their players decided to engage in fantasy rape is really not being a decent human being. No, "I'm playing an evil character" doesn't matter or count.

IGNORANCE

I love getting to say that.

I honestly thought, and still do, that Pen to Paper Roleplays tended to be the least sexist etc things to take part in. You can be an 8 year old girl with S8 next to a male body builder with S5 and its fine as long as you go by the stats etc.

Thats all an RPG is. Stats. There is no agenda or anything, its all simply a set of stats for players to create what they wish.

I dont know, I think its just another cashing in on the current scandal thingies.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
"Its impossible to describe male on female penetrative sex as anything other than the violent colonization of the female body by patriarchy."

A lovely quote from a professor during a gender & ethnicity class. It was at that point which I realized the magnitude of the insanity that follows the natural extension of ideological hyper-leftism.

That being said, any DM that doesn't say "way a minute, thats really fethed up" if their players decided to engage in fantasy rape is really not being a decent human being. No, "I'm playing an evil character" doesn't matter or count.

Wow. My faith in humanity just went down a notch.

 TheCustomLime wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
"Its impossible to describe male on female penetrative sex as anything other than the violent colonization of the female body by patriarchy."

A lovely quote from a professor during a gender & ethnicity class. It was at that point which I realized the magnitude of the insanity that follows the natural extension of ideological hyper-leftism.

That being said, any DM that doesn't say "way a minute, thats really fethed up" if their players decided to engage in fantasy rape is really not being a decent human being. No, "I'm playing an evil character" doesn't matter or count.

Wow. My faith in humanity just went down a notch.

I gotta admit, people that say those things have a lot of comedic value in them.

I once read this huge blog post about how sex is always rape for a women. No matter what either party says. I didnt know what to feel, so I laughed. My GF gave me a huge shock when she siad with a serious face she agrees. She was joking, but still. It isnt all bad.

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
"Its impossible to describe male on female penetrative sex as anything other than the violent colonization of the female body by patriarchy."
.

This line of thinking is why i dislike anti-sex feminism, pro-sex feminism seems the be inhabited by people who spout much less crazy stuff. It's good to know that all children are a bi-product of rape.Also is this sexism shitstorm really needed atm? "LEAVE GAMING (britney) ALONE!

What the. Alright, nuke the world. GG gentlemen and ladies

Reminds me of middle school when there was a debate about gender modifiers in D&D.

 Bullockist wrote:

 Peter Wiggin wrote:
"Its impossible to describe male on female penetrative sex as anything other than the violent colonization of the female body by patriarchy."
.

This line of thinking is why i dislike anti-sex feminism, pro-sex feminism seems the be inhabited by people who spout much less crazy stuff. It's good to know that all children are a bi-product of rape.Also is this sexism shitstorm really needed atm? "LEAVE GAMING (britney) ALONE!

I've met more than one self proclaimed pro-sex feminist who had a lot of antipathy towards men, many times with very good experiential reason. Honestly its just that 3rd wave feminism, like any conflict theory based analysis, perpetuates the conflicts that they seek to find in the structure of a society. If they didn't, the ideology would cease to exist. That is why the conflict analysis is broken into male/female rich/poor black/white PoC/White rural/urban etc etc. All the little tribes, all the little wars. Its less about the femin and more about the ism.

Or to put it another way, an ideology that neatly divides the world into two opposing camps is going to generate hatred by its very structure. That applies to everything from partisan politics to religion to conflict theory feminism.

I agree with what you said peter, very insightful.

I still cannot read anti-sex feminist articles though.

 Bullockist wrote:
I agree with what you said peter, very insightful.

I still cannot read anti-sex feminist articles though.

Thanks man, it comes with the territory for me. I have to be able to defend and secure my own identity without falling into the linguistic and cognitive traps that open the door for conflict analysis to dismantle an argument.

Well of course you don't want to read them, they're boring and any man who really and truly is a good man...with concern for women as he would have concern for his own sister or mother doesn't need to read anything like that. Again, I feel blessed to have been raised in a household in which the parents worked very hard to present an image of gender equity (in terms of the power dynamic in the home) and solidarity (meaning parents never fought or disagreed over anything major) in front of kids.

My sister was raised (at least before preschool) as a "grey overall kid" so my household was always very pro equality.My sister and mother are quite pro-fixing things themselves and as a consequence of growing up like this i never really understand the finger pointing game that many activists display, however you explained it perfectly.

Aaron Trammell alludes to some worthwhile points. Games can be and have been used, whether consciously or not, to reinforce perspectives, including problematic ones. And gamers committed to problematic ideologies often defend them by some appeal to authority, either on the basis of genre regarding fiction or pseudo-history regarding non-fiction and in either case the underlying design theory of simulation. "Accuracy" justifies all sorts of iniquity as far as some gamers are concerned. Witness on Dakka Dakka the countless arguments over the upper body strength of women.

OTOH I am kind of repulsed by Trammell's implication that games should be at the service of the "values of inclusivity, plurality, and compassion." Trammell deploys those concepts with such imperial ease, as if they are universal (and universally obvious) throughout time and space. There is an echo of puritanical condescension here, ringing down from the Christian Right of the 80s. it's like the children of that generation's suburban Evangelicals rebelled by pursuing degrees in gender theory. But they never really sloughed the wild-eyed righteousness of mom and dad.

I'd really, really recommend reading the article by Jon Peterson that Trammell linked:

https://medium.com/@increment/the-first-female-gamers-c784fbe3ff37

Upper body strength of women? Musta missed that one.

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

Even in Gary Alan Fine’s classic book, Shared Fantasy, the distinction between reality and fantasy for role-players is considered “impermeable,” despite the sociologist’s own admission that “[frequently] non-player male characters who have not hurt the party are executed and female non-player characters raped for sport.”

Really? what kind of DM hosted that game?

I wouldn't be too surprised by that claim. Remember, not only did someone create FATAL they actually thought there was enough of a market for it that it would be a viable product to sell.

Click bait needs those clicks.

Why racist, though? I'm not white and I've never felt discriminated against.

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Why racist, though? I'm not white and I've never felt discriminated against.

THEN OBVIOUSLY YOU DON'T SEE THE RACISM OF D&D! BUGBEARS ARE BROWN, THEREFORE D&D HATES BLACK PEOPLE!

 TheCustomLime wrote:
Why racist, though? I'm not white and I've never felt discriminated against.

Because certain segments of people are crazy and they need to have someone BE the victim so that they can 'protect' them and feel better about themselves. Even if the person who's supposed to be the victim doesn't feel like he/she is a victim, then it's all internalised misogyny/racism where the person is oppressed and doesn't know it.

Strange as one of the things I've noticed about D&D is that the rulebooks and Novels (though not necessarily the players) go out of their way to be as PC as possible. Evreything as gender/race (as in human races) neutral as possible. Even as a teenager in the 90's It just seemed ludicrous to me that these where supposed to be Medieval worlds but had the same social attitudes as 60’s era San Francisco.

It seems the SJW's just can't stand not to be in complete control of everything.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:

Even in Gary Alan Fine’s classic book, Shared Fantasy, the distinction between reality and fantasy for role-players is considered “impermeable,” despite the sociologist’s own admission that “[frequently] non-player male characters who have not hurt the party are executed and female non-player characters raped for sport.”

Really? what kind of DM hosted that game?

I wouldn't be too surprised by that claim. Remember, not only did someone create FATAL they actually thought there was enough of a market for it that it would be a viable product to sell.

There is also a market for my little Pony D&D, i think they take it way out of proportion, this may have happened incidentally, but all the sessions i played and DM's i know would never let this happen (at least not without major repercussion to the character).

 LuciusAR wrote:
Strange as one of the things I've noticed about D&D is that the rulebooks and Novels (though not necessarily the players) go out of their way to be as PC as possible. Evreything as gender/race (as in human races) neutral as possible. Even as a teenager in the 90's It just seemed ludicrous to me that these where supposed to be Medieval worlds but had the same social attitudes as 60’s era San Francisco.

Yeah, in a world with wizards, bizarre monsters, etc, it's just completely unbelievable that women and men could be equal and the world wouldn't duplicate real-world power structures. This lack of realism just kills D&D for me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jehan-reznor wrote:
There is also a market for my little Pony D&D, i think they take it way out of proportion, this may have happened incidentally, but all the sessions i played and DM's i know would never let this happen (at least not without major repercussion to the character).

I think it's out of proportion, but I also think that the various TFG stereotypes exist for a reason.

wait. rape. in dungeons and dragons? that. just, just, wow. fething wow.

 Peregrine wrote:


Yeah, in a world with wizards, bizarre monsters, etc, it's just completely unbelievable that women and men could be equal and the world wouldn't duplicate real-world power structures. This lack of realism just kills D&D for me.

Sorry but it's just because a fictional world has fantasy elements doesn’t mean that it's not supposed to be Medieval. Trying to project modern social norms onto worlds that, though fictional, are still clearly based on a particular historic period with vastly different norms is just silly.

Why on earth do you think George RR Martin has sold so well? Because his book at the time where a breath of fresh air and despite the Fantasy elements Westeros felt like a proper Medieval world. With all the horror, disease, filth, perversity and prejudice that comes with that. Needless to say the SJW seems to have a bee in their bonnet over GOT as well.

I guess if it's supposed to be like the real world, I shouldn't be killing so many orcs/kobolds/goblins indiscriminately then. Oh wait....

Yes, it happens.

At a con I attended (many years ago, D&D was still a TSR product and still in 2nd ed) I heard a tale that in one of the D&D games a party raped and killed a dryad then resurrected her and did it again - with the DM chortling along with the all male group.

Now, ordinarily, I'd have not lent much credence to that story - except I knew two of the players, and they HAD done similar things in other games run at my club.

They were one of the reasons rpg players had such a bad rep at cons back then (miniature gamers were tame in comparison).

 chromedog wrote:
Yes, it happens.

At a con I attended (many years ago, D&D was still a TSR product and still in 2nd ed) I heard a tale that in one of the D&D games a party raped and killed a dryad then resurrected her and did it again - with the DM chortling along with the all male group.

Now, ordinarily, I'd have not lent much credence to that story - except I knew two of the players, and they HAD done similar things in other games run at my club.

They were one of the reasons rpg players had such a bad rep at cons back then (miniature gamers were tame in comparison).

If I had anyone try something like that, they would be out and never allowed back. That's just disgusting. Killing is fine with me, but rape is just a bit to far in a roleplaying game.

I don't see why this is even a discussion? Facepalm/sigh/chuckle and move on.