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I would like to bring attention to a growing concern within the dakka community in regards to the perception of moderator inactivity to decreasing insulting and aggressive behaviour that is souring the 40k forums
Moderators will delete many posts that argue against "anti-GW" threads especially if you use the H word as "inflammatory" and "unnecessary" whilst many of these are hostile or insulting g in nature I believe it sets a double standard to allow similarly negative posts to stand that are anti-GW in sentiment. Because posts that are deliberately insulting, including similar name calling "white knight apologists" and even names that aren't warranted in secular society in general are much more common due to the fact they aren't cautioned.. Perhaps even encouraged..

Threads that suggest that complaining soap-box style "won't get Dakkanuaghts anywhere" closer to cheaper prices or rules that they like and are 'unnecessary'
Well, they get locked for 'not going anywhere' and being 'unnecessary'..
And don't even try telling people who claim to have left behind GW for good three years in row to leave 40k forums since they "no longer have anything to do with GW" and "have moved onto xxx or yy" some have even made ridiculous claims that they only venture onto threads clearly marked 40k in order to tell us "how much better we're off moving to xxx or yyy".

Being as insulting as you can using memes of cats and Michael Jackson, and complaining about complainers about complaining by saying "oh look that's three over three days", won't change the fact that there are multiple threads and new ones all the time making baseless accusations and childish insults to anyone who disagrees with Anti-GW sentiment.

I dislike the new GW tactics immensely but silencing honest pro-GW debate (even apologist sentiment if you prefer that phrase) in favour of allowing insulting attacks on characters from an agreed point of view is not conducive to a platform that won't be ignored by GW employees out of hand for good reason due to its immensely childish insulting tones...

And no, these threads will not stop, because there are many many! people who visit the internets largest 40k forum who believe that the consistent lack of action against aggressive insults by anti-GW protestors that often "no longer have anything to do with it" make for a very poor social website, take away from honest criticism of both GW and dakka moderators at the same time. People enter this site to begin social interaction with others about a hobby they enjoy, and whilst I concur that many are derisive and sarcastic in their criticism and bring following insults down on themselves, there are many who more who feel threatened to voice any opinion in case of having threads locked, posts deleted, or worse.. The perception of sanctioned "trolling".

If dakka is serious about providing a socially safe website that caters for friendly discussion then I would ask all the moderators to both caution and shut down aggressive and insulting attitudes on both sides of ANY arguments, not just the ones that disagree with Dakkas seeming direction of purposefully guiding players away from GW for whatever reason..

Yours sincerely

Bob


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Many people still have to realise that the insulting and aggressive attitude towards GW is the distinct possibility that GW refuses to have any contact with customers through social media..
In Fact! I posit that the actions ten years ago to remove official websites, forums etc... is as much GW passive-aggressively ignoring and distancing themselves from their customers as it is Customers passive-aggressively ignoring and distancing themselves from GW teams..

Probably should have sent the mods a PM or put this into N+B forum.
It's just going to turn into another one of those threads here.

Any proof or links of this behavior?

The dakkadakka 40k section is full of the most grumps you'll find out there. Its just how it is. There's other forums i use which may not be the biggest, but the people are cooler. Some forums are good to go to to talk about 40k, others are a good place to go to to b**ch about 40k. This one is the latter. Hence my first post in about a month on here.

The moderators here don't favour any side of the GW argument. They simply keep the discussion civil.

If posts are being deleted, they're not simply pro-GW. They're inflammatory, and were deleted for that reason. This is why Dakka feels so negative towards GW at times - the mods allow it as long as the people being negative don't break the forum rules. Free speech and all of that.

This is also what makes Dakka such a great place to discuss things. You're not penalised for having a viewpoint they don't agree with.

So, as Jehan-reznor said - any links for proof of this behaviour? I've been here a long time, I just haven't seen it.

The two camps (pro and con GW folk) do seem to be as polarized as the current American political system...

This is not in Off Topic sub forum?!?!

 agnosto wrote:
The two camps (pro and con GW folk) do seem to be as polarized as the current American political system...

Only some. I know there's also plenty of anti-GW gamers who simply want GW to make a better game. Not everyone thinks GW broke into their house, wrecked up the place and kicked their puppy on the way out.

There are a few anti GW people here who have been doing this for years and years. They simply know how to be a pin without breaking the rules.

I noticed the Pro GW people tend to get sick of dakka and either know were to go for nicer GW stuff around here or they leave. So it seems one sided but in reality its just one side is more dedicated and know what to do without getting banned. Which is kinda funny really.

So yea, I suggest just avoiding the 40k discussion and lurking more often than posting. Or the negative attitude will rub off on you.

Heck, even reddit is nicer than here at times.

 -Loki- wrote:

 agnosto wrote:
The two camps (pro and con GW folk) do seem to be as polarized as the current American political system...

Only some. I know there's also plenty of anti-GW gamers who simply want GW to make a better game. Not everyone thinks GW broke into their house, wrecked up the place and kicked their puppy on the way out.

I agree. I believe there's a silent majority of apathetic former GW gamers while the vocal fringe on both sides fight frequently. I'm primarily in that apathetic range with occasional bouts of rage and/or love.

No one's trying to silence pro-GW sentiment. The problem arises when Pro-GW posters declare that people with criticisms of GW should stay silent or are "just haters" or whatever insult they throw out to dismiss valid criticisms. When a Pro-GW person comes on saying critics are mindless haters and should go away, yeah, that doesn't bring out the most positive atmosphere.

Seriously, go through all the threads and look at which ones were closed and why. You'll see a trend that marks a vocal minority of GW apologists being rude, trollish and with a strong desire to tell GW critics to shut up and go away.

This is a forum and many people will have many different points of view.

I think the mods do a great job on here. I agree that many of the threads on the 40k sub thread can get out of hand.

I don't think that they favour anyone but just try to keep things in check and it can get hard when arguments escalate quickly.

Just stop by the fantasy sub forum, I feel that those of us who are there don't get to over the top with arguments etc I think it's a generalization but there are more 40k players and more users and then more threads and more arguments and more out of control arguments.
Mods try their best and I don't think they favour one side or the other even though it could seem like that at times (haven't seen it before tho)

Oh look, another one of these threads. Didn't RunicFN's thread get locked?

If you prefer an echo chamber where you'll only ever hear opinions that reflect your own, I'm sure there are other forums for that. Bell of Lost Souls?

My argument is not that aggressive and sarcastic attitudes by threads or posts from pro-GW should be warranted allowed or tolerated.
In fact I did read the thread from Runic and found him to be sarcastic in the extreme whether or not that warranted equally sarcastic responses as apposed to criticism for both his argument and attitude is a separate discussion... (I certainly agree with the lock though)
My argument is that NO aggressive behaviour is warranted, sarcastic comment and memes such as captains above me are counterproductive to a socially except able public forum..

My personal opinion of how I perceive the allowances of sarcasm and what level and what side differs from some.. And I respect the majority of opinions on here and how they were delivered ... 'Till captain came in at least...

I'm simply suggesting that in my view moderators need to publicly decry and come down on insulting sarcasm from all sides equally, and I personally don't Believe they have done that recently.

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
My argument is not that aggressive and sarcastic attitudes by threads or posts from pro-GW should be warranted allowed or tolerated.
In fact I did read the thread from Runic and found him to be sarcastic in the extreme whether or not that warranted equally sarcastic responses as apposed to criticism for both his argument and attitude is a separate discussion... (I certainly agree with the lock though)
My argument is that NO aggressive behaviour is warranted, sarcastic comment and memes such as captains above me are counterproductive to a socially except able public forum..

My personal opinion of how I perceive the allowances of sarcasm and what level and what side differs from some.. And I respect the majority of opinions on here and how they were delivered ... 'Till captain came in at least...

I'm simply suggesting that in my view moderators need to publicly decry and come down on insulting sarcasm from all sides equally, and I personally don't Believe they have done that recently.

I think part of the problem is that sometimes forums and the internet can be a congregation of people who like or dislike one thing and are extremely vocal about it or rude etc.

The problem with the internet is that it is sometimes hard to read tone and some comments can be seen as rude or sarcastic when in reality that is not what they ment.

But yes aggressive behaviour is annoying sometimes

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
My argument is not that aggressive and sarcastic attitudes by threads or posts from pro-GW should be warranted allowed or tolerated.
In fact I did read the thread from Runic and found him to be sarcastic in the extreme whether or not that warranted equally sarcastic responses as apposed to criticism for both his argument and attitude is a separate discussion... (I certainly agree with the lock though)
My argument is that NO aggressive behaviour is warranted, sarcastic comment and memes such as captains above me are counterproductive to a socially except able public forum..

My personal opinion of how I perceive the allowances of sarcasm and what level and what side differs from some.. And I respect the majority of opinions on here and how they were delivered ... 'Till captain came in at least...

I'm simply suggesting that in my view moderators need to publicly decry and come down on insulting sarcasm from all sides equally, and I personally don't Believe they have done that recently.

I wasn't being sarcastic at all, I meant what I said. If people are irritated by the [apparent] prevailing popular opinion on Dakka Dakka regarding GW, there are other forums with a more pro-GW slant.

I'd just came from Runic's thread and was somewhat irritated by his flame baiting straw man and demand for people with opinions different to his to shut up, and interpreted your post as being similar.

If I mistakenly put you in the same category as him, I apologize.

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
I'm simply suggesting that in my view moderators need to publicly decry and come down on insulting sarcasm from all sides equally, and I personally don't Believe they have done that recently.

This is what the report button is for.

This is a large community with many, many active posters and threads. Moderators can't and shouldn't be expected to ready every single post.

If you see someone you think is breaking a rule, press the little triangle on the top right of the post (it's on all of them) and report it. A moderator will step in and assess it.

It's not aggressive enough, until we start reaching through our screens and choking each other. Then I guess it'll hit levels of being too aggressive.

I've been more or less dissapointed with most forums, it's got ignorant people arguing who refuse to learn something new, then you've got the little princesses who have a teary about everything

And im lol'ing at people scared of pissy little internet arguements get the feth over yourself

can't win

Guess thats what happens when wargaming's target is white middle class male

(im working class half black) so thats my perspective anyway too many choireboys
with too much money

YOU WANNA FIGHT!?

Hollismason wrote:
YOU WANNA FIGHT!?

I get the joke that you are making, but please don't post short things with poor grammar and coloured text, it's a bit spammy.

"Dost thou desire to box, if so our seconds shall arrange for us to meet on neutral ground so that honour may be satisfied" would have been more appropriate. But still a bit spammy.

Captain- thank you for clearing up the misconception, no apology necessary, I understand how Runic would have pushed your buttons.

Mitch- what the hell does race have a damn thing to do with the price of peas in Paris? The hilarious thing is people descended from Aboriginee decent... Like myself... Dislike dealing in halves/ quarters etc... It's demeaning.. As we are both!!! Not half of either... Your disdain is noted, feel free to express it further, but do us all a favour and keep race beating the "white fellas" out of it!!

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
My argument is that NO aggressive behaviour is warranted, sarcastic comment and memes such as captains above me are counterproductive to a socially except able public forum..

And your argument would be correct. Dakka's primary rule is to be polite, and we take it very seriously.

If you are seeing posts that you feel cross the line and they haven't been dealt with, it's entirely possible that we just haven't seen them. Hit the mod alert button on that post, and it can be reviewed.

Hollismason- WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO? NIBBLE ME BUM??

 motyak wrote:

Hollismason wrote:
YOU WANNA FIGHT!?

I get the joke that you are making, but please don't post short things with poor grammar and coloured text, it's a bit spammy.

"Dost thou desire to box, if so our seconds shall arrange for us to meet on neutral ground so that honour may be satisfied" would have been more appropriate. But still a bit spammy.

 mitch_rifle wrote:
I've been more or less dissapointed with most forums, it's got ignorant people arguing who refuse to learn something new, then you've got the little princesses who have a teary about everything

And im lol'ing at people scared of pissy little internet arguements get the feth over yourself

can't win

Guess thats what happens when wargaming's target is white middle class male

(im working class half black) so thats my perspective anyway too many choireboys
with too much money

I'm not sure what the point of your post is? Taking a shot at middle class white males while making yourself seem like an internet tough guy? Or am I missing something?

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
In Fact! I posit that the actions ten years ago to remove official websites, forums etc... is as much GW passive-aggressively ignoring and distancing themselves from their customers as it is Customers passive-aggressively ignoring and distancing themselves from GW teams..

Then that makes them more the fools than we already perceive them as. Backing away from social media, in this day and age, is ludicrous. Their continued efforts to stymie such efforts, back away from interaction with customers, and keep secrets about everything until the last second only hurts them.

Or to put it another way, cutting off their nose didn't work. Do they cut something else off, or maybe try a new strategy that treats their customer base likes customers and not a necessary evil?

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
I would like to bring attention to a growing concern within the dakka community in regards to the perception of moderator inactivity to decreasing insulting and aggressive behaviour that is souring the 40k forums
...
If dakka is serious about providing a socially safe website that caters for friendly discussion then I would ask all the moderators to both caution and shut down aggressive and insulting attitudes on both sides of ANY arguments, not just the ones that disagree with Dakkas seeming direction of purposefully guiding players away from GW for whatever reason..

See, from my perspective, part of the problem with your argument here is this:

Posts: 143
Joined: 15/06/2014

So you've been a member for all of 4 months with a handful of posts - and now you've decided that you don't like the way this place is run, and can it be changed to meet your standards, please?

That kind of thing rankles me a bit. And I say this as someone who generally avoids the GW bitching threads, still buys the product (on occasion, though far less these days) and the 40k-specific forums for the most part. It's not that a low post count/new member can't have valuable ideas and thoughts and discussions to share. It's simply that it seems fairly common that new members/low posters start soap box threads to tell everyone else here that we're doing it wrong, and they're now here to tell us how to do it properly.

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:
Hollismason- WHAT ARE YOU GONNA DO? NIBBLE ME BUM??

Uhm?

 Inquisitor Bob wrote:

My argument is that NO aggressive behaviour is warranted, sarcastic comment and memes such as captains above me are counterproductive to a socially except able public forum..

This could be interpreted as an aggressive post (even if you post it as a joke, i hope)

I have...seen posts that you people wouldn't believe...threads flame out in YMDC over Scout move , user comments on Travon Martin from the General Discussion...All those...threads...on Gamer Gate...will be lost in time. Like..consolidation...into..close combat. Time...to..close..thread.