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With the wyvern on the table and the decreased points on most Russes, is the basilisk out of a job? I keep wanting to try and work mine into a list but I find it hard to justify 125 points for a 12/10/10 open-topped vehicle when the wyvern will usually kill more infantry, especially with its minimum range to consider, and the basilisk can't do much versus vehicles anymore.

Is there still a place for the basilisk?

I wouldn't say that they're useless, but they've certainly been outclassed and fill a pretty niche role at this point. It's largely due to the fact that Wyverns are grossly undercosted though. Still, S9 could come in handy if you need to ID multi-wound models, and it's probably going to scare MEQs much more than S4.

basilisks cost 125 pts for a 12/10/10 open topped vehicle.


the exact same gun, with more durability since its artillery, and the ability to receive orders, cost 75 pts from forge world.

yes, the basilisk is 100% dead, when you can buy the same thing but better for 40% of the cost.

Frankly I feel it does a different role then the wyvern so should be compared to a more like minded vehicle which is the Leman Russ. Its still 25pts cheaper then a LRBT and its got a better ordnance then a LRBT so it still has its uses. Its just whether you want a battle cannon in your army or not (which most of the time its not)

Yes, the Basilisk is probably still dead (though it has been dead since 5th edition). Against infantry the Wyvern and Colossus beat it by solid margins, and against most vehicles it isn't effective enough to really matter. The only time I could see it being a relevant choice would be if points are very tight and you need your anti-infantry artillery to have at least a little bit of anti-vehicle firepower because you can't afford enough dedicated anti-tank units, or if you need a counter to enemy artillery camping out of LOS but can't afford a Manticore.

And of course the final blow to the Basilisk in anything but that niche role is the Minotaur. For the cost of two Basilisks you get a twin-linked 7" shot on a 13/12/14 (it has rear-facing guns) 6 HP superheavy platform. So more firepower than the Basilisk battery against most targets, vastly better durability that makes LOS blocking less important, and the ability to move 12" a turn/drive over enemy units/etc. If you're taking more than a single Basilisk and have a LOW slot free you're making a very bad decision.

 easysauce wrote:
the exact same gun, with more durability since its artillery, and the ability to receive orders, cost 75 pts from forge world.

But with the big downside of never being able to move. It's still a better unit because of the durability and cost, but it isn't better in every way.

The Basilisk isn't dead. I still use it, behind an Aegis Defence Line, and she performs beautifully, often times beating my Battle Tanks as far as making points back. Basilisk is still beautiful

I can't justify using a Basilisk as long as I'm forced to put a piece of siege artillery in amongst the frontline troops. Any commander who isn't a drunkard knows a Basilisk should be miles behind the fighting lines. Until that changes,
it's Deathstrike/Manticore for me.

 Gibblets wrote:
I can't justify using a Basilisk as long as I'm forced to put a piece of siege artillery in amongst the frontline troops. Any commander who isn't a drunkard knows a Basilisk should be miles behind the fighting lines. Until that changes,
it's Deathstrike/Manticore for me.

Uh, the deathstrike is an ICBM. It should be firing from a separate continent.

You actually mention two of the only things available that would realistically be further away than a Bassy.

Basilisk isn't bad, at all.

He's just limited by the constrains of the table size.

Bigger tables-basilisk shines. apoc is where he really belongs.

Its an artillery piece, artillery pieces does not function to their full effect on the frontline and a standard game is entirely the frontline.

Much like the hammerhead, many airplanes, sentry pylons and other long-range weaopns. they pay for the range, but in small tables they don't get to use it.
When they get to use their range, that's when they shine.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Basilisk isn't bad, at all.

He's just limited by the constrains of the table size.

Bigger tables-basilisk shines. apoc is where he really belongs.

Its an artillery piece, artillery pieces does not function to their full effect on the frontline and a standard game is entirely the frontline.

Much like the hammerhead, many airplanes, sentry pylons and other long-range weaopns. they pay for the range, but in small tables they don't get to use it.
When they get to use their range, that's when they shine.

If you're going into Apoc territory, isn't the Master of Ordnance a superior option for 20 points with unlimited range and no minimum range?

Seems odd that three of our HS choices: basilisk, manticore, deathstrike, are all for Apoc-only since they're so high priced and mediocre on a 6x4 table.

easysauce wrote
basilisks cost 125 pts for a 12/10/10 open topped vehicle.
the exact same gun, with more durability since its artillery, and the ability to receive orders, cost 75 pts from forge world.
yes, the basilisk is 100% dead, when you can buy the same thing but better for 40% of the cost.

I tried to make bsilisks work. The gun is a superb piece of equipment. So i scratch built two carriages for my two basilisks. I magnetised them so when the rules come full circle i will still be able to field Basilisks. Till then It's Earthshakers all the way. They can take Fire on my Target orders and if you attach them a psycker they have LD 9 for the order. and I don't need to move them much. If something is that close i can shoot it "directly" and till then it's Barrage city.
The Basilisk is dead. Long Live Earthshaker Platforms.

The Wyvern is a hideous looking model and the Basilisk is a once-and-for-all statement to any player you're facing as to whose gun is longest.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

konst80hummel wrote:
Till then It's Earthshakers all the way. They can take Fire on my Target orders and if you attach them a psycker they have LD 9 for the order. and I don't need to move them much. If something is that close i can shoot it "directly" and till then it's Barrage city.
The Basilisk is dead. Long Live Earthshaker Platforms.

Except they aren't in the AM book, so you'll be at the mercy of your opponent's goodwill and permission to use them.

I agree that the Basilik it "Dead". The Wervyn is an ork shredder for a start, you save.... 45 points (give or take) and it's op.

 Sir Arun wrote:
Except they aren't in the AM book, so you'll be at the mercy of your opponent's goodwill and permission to use them.

Just like anything in the codex. What are you going to do, hold a gun to your opponent's head and force them to play if they say "I'm not playing against your Wyverns"?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Sir Arun wrote:
Except they aren't in the AM book, so you'll be at the mercy of your opponent's goodwill and permission to use them.

Just like anything in the codex. What are you going to do, hold a gun to your opponent's head and force them to play if they say "I'm not playing against your Wyverns"?

No, but you laugh at him for refusing to play a regular unit from a main faction codex that you didn't for example spam.

Obscure FW publications only a fringe group of the wargaming community regularly buys on the other hand...

I suppose i 'm lucky then to have a group that looks at forgeworld as an opportunity rather than an obstacle.

konst80hummel wrote:
I suppose i 'm lucky then to have a group that looks at forgeworld as an opportunity rather than an obstacle.

I'm happy for you, then. My gaming group is the exact opposite, saying its already hard enough to keep track of the regular codex publications and supplements that they cant take into consideration the entire Imperial Armour catalogue and all other FW publications like the HH stuff right now.

Similar from the regulars in my GW store. I got a FW Eldar avatar and had to tell repeatedly that its just a FW model and doesnt have its own rules

As I can see why people are having issues with the basilisks, i personally find them essiencial to my list. The fear factor it causes in my hobby group is worth the 125 pts. The wyvern is excellent against horde armies, but I find the basilisk preforms better against those light vehicle lists and list of power armour or pa equivalents.
As to forge, my group also allows forge stuff. As every army needs a center piece.

konst80hummel wrote:

easysauce wrote
basilisks cost 125 pts for a 12/10/10 open topped vehicle.
the exact same gun, with more durability since its artillery, and the ability to receive orders, cost 75 pts from forge world.
yes, the basilisk is 100% dead, when you can buy the same thing but better for 40% of the cost.

I tried to make bsilisks work. The gun is a superb piece of equipment. So i scratch built two carriages for my two basilisks. I magnetised them so when the rules come full circle i will still be able to field Basilisks. Till then It's Earthshakers all the way. They can take Fire on my Target orders and if you attach them a psycker they have LD 9 for the order. and I don't need to move them much. If something is that close i can shoot it "directly" and till then it's Barrage city.
The Basilisk is dead. Long Live Earthshaker Platforms.

Is it that gun with outdated rules from 5 ed where artillery used to be 10-10-10 opentopped?

Imperial Armour 1 2nd Edition page 188.

With 7th edition rules for barrage, minimum range isn't a problem if you have LOS. Stick your basilisk(s) in a building with a clear field of view, pay the extra points to remove opened top, and kiss goodbye those hostile space marines. I have won most of my 7th edition games by pummling my opponent with three basilisks in cover but with LOS.

I think there's definitely still a place for them, I don't think I've ever played a game where my Basilisk didn't kill its points-worth of enemies. They erase MEQ's, crisis suits, hive guard and anything weaker than that out in the open. And, although it can no longer one-shot vehicles, S9 with ordinance (roll two pick the highest) means it has a good chance of taking a hull point off of any vehicle in the game.

I can tell you also that Tau players particularly hate basilisk -- something that can always hit them without LOS.

Most of all though, I find that they are useful tactically. You can sit them on an objective all game, but I always put them out of LOS on the opposite corner of the board from where I deploy most of the rest of my amy, including HQ's etc. This forces the enemy to make a choice -- ignore the Bassie and just accept that you're going to have S9 AP3 pieplates dropping on you every turn, or send something all the way over there to kill it, thereby taking that unit, which is almost always more expensive than 125 points, out of the significant fighting.

All of that said, it's become more of a luxury piece for me. When I am cutting down points in a list, its usually one of the first things to go.

Dont say the Basilisk is outclassed by the Manticore because it isnt.

The Manticore is absolutely USELESS at ranges 24" and below because codex says it cannot fire directly, and a barrage weapon can only fire directly within its minimum range.

Also, one could make the case that S9 AP3 is superior to S10 AP4. The former is stronger against a wider range of targets than the latter. The fact that the Manticore gets D3 of those pie plates per shot is nice, but if you consider the points increase I still think they are about equal. For the 45 extra points you are paying for the Manticore, you can take an outflanking scout sentinel with a lascannon, for instance.

I think the only artillery that is better than it point-for-point is the Wyvern, which, as mentioned, is good just because it's undercosted. But the Wyvern is itself a one-trick anti-infantry pony in an army that has no lack of anti-infantry options.

I ran a basilisk today and I was whelmed by its performance. Killed about 6 marines total. The marine player used a no-scatter drop pod to plant his dreadnaught in front of my basilisk, hitting it with a multi-melta but only glancing it. The Tau player later deep-struck his no-scatter crisis suit commander who took it out for good.

12 AV is flimsy on a 125 point model, 10 AV side and rear makes it almost impossible to effectively defend unless you've got a specific tank bunker or are flanking it with chimeras. And the full scatter is killer when firing indirectly. After today, I think I'm going to go ahead and convert it into a wyvern.

I'd rather pay 30 more points to field a proper Leman Russ battle tank. Range isn't much of a factor with 72", and 14/13 AV makes all the difference in the world. I'll just have to make sure the rear is well defended.

Still, think about that a second. With your 125 point model, you killed six marines, who run 96 points without upgrades (and I assume they had some sort of wargear among them). Your opponents then had to send a drop pod with a dreadnought and a suit commander to kill it. Depending on the wargear they had, that's nearly 300 points your enemy diverted just to take out this artillery piece you have there in the corner.

Even as an "underwhelming" performance that's not so bad.

They've wasted a pod+dread and a no-scatter drop to kill a basilisk? And you ain't happy?

I used to shutter when I seen them. Now they are like yesss, easy kill.

I've run basilisks and earthshakers and I like them both, but given how easy it is to annihilate an open-topped vehicle, I'd opt for the platform. Mobility isn't a thing you really worry about with ordnance anyway so that point is moot.

Truthfully I'd like to field an entire battery of earthshakers, like in the fluff, because that would be an amazing amount of devastation.