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Hey mates, with 40k picking up in my area, I am looking to start my Astra Militarium army from the ground up, and I have decided to run a Mech-Veteran list because not only is it a lot cheaper to field then the traditional Mob lists, it also is fluff to me as I am a Veteran of the 25th Tropic Lightning Striker Brigade, which was awesome to say the least . That being said, I was able to glance at the Astra Militarium book today and it is basically a simple noob question for the veterans out there: Which is better for a Mech-Vet list in this edition, Chimera's or Taurox's? Granted a Chimera has better front armor and has more firepower, the Taurox has the advantage of being a cheaper transport that has Autocannons, which is always nice to have. Anyways, appreciate any help you guys can give me, and if anyone has any tactical advice on how to run this list in this new edition or what units best support it please share. Appreciate the time and help mates.

Neither are particularly stellar in this edition, however, the Chimera remains far and away superior than the Taurox in almost every respect. The Taurox is cheaper and can present a threat to light armor at a bit longer ranges, but otherwise the Chimera isn't all *that* much more, kills infantry a whole lot better (and still isn't bad at engaging light armor), and there's a world of difference between AV12 and AV11. You also get more passenger fired weapons with the Chimera if the extra Lasgun shots matter.

I prefer Veterans in Taurox. The extra fire points is what sells it to me, and the speed. Chimera to me are a better fit for Command Squads with their Mobile Command rule, the lasgun arrays (how often will you be surrounded on both sides of your vehicle?)

I think of the Taurox as a faster Rhino with a Dozer Blade and better gun, without one point of Side Armour. Awesome

I vote Chimera simply because I couldn't bring myself to buy/own/play such a hideously ugly model as the Pig Truck

Do you really want AV11 all that stands between your Sv 5+ guys and literally everything in the game that will pierce their armor?

I don't know really. With Extra Armour and Camo Netting then a Taurox is on par with a Chimera imo, and not much more expensive if at all. I suppose then it comes down to personal preference. That and a Taurox can re-roll dangerous terrain tests..

How exactly is the Taurox faster than the Chimera? Surely they move at the same speed, unless you build the Taurox-prime? Am I derping or what?

Extra armour and cam netting puts the Taurox at 10pts more than a stock chimera, and still more fragile outside of cover.

My vote lies with chimera. Partly for the Chimera's superior armour and two weapons, partly because the Taurox looks so awful.

Not really faster per say, but if you move 12" you at least have a Twin Linked gun, compared to a Chimera snap firing everything, and as has been mentioned, rerolling DTs

A chimera that moved 12" can snap shot a heavy bolter and multilaser.

While a TL autocannon is a superior weapon, I'd much rather the AV12 and more transport capacity. Lasgun arrays are okay, I guess.

 Blacksails wrote:
Extra armour and cam netting puts the Taurox at 10pts more than a stock chimera, and still more fragile outside of cover.

My vote lies with chimera. Partly for the Chimera's superior armour and two weapons, partly because the Taurox looks so awful.

Ahhh, I didn't have either copy of the 'dex's to hand so was running off memory. Badly it seems..

I actually like the Taurox mini.....

 sarpedons-right-hand wrote:


I actually like the Taurox mini.....

If it had two big tracks instead of four small ones, or had 8 wheels like a cool APC/IFV, or even 6 and sat lower to the ground...I could grow to like it.

Stock? Yikes. Definitely some cool conversions out there.

Oh, and the side mounted Autocannon option is pretty weird.

Nope, I like the stock mini.

Although there are some fabulous conversions out there...

I like the look of the Taurox. There I said it.




Now as to the rules, a Chimera with a dozerblade (so it can also re-roll a failed dangerous terrain test) is TWENTY points costlier than a Taurox.

For twenty more points, you get +1 front AV, but honestly - which enemy is foolish enough to shoot at a Chimera from the front? Like seriously. All they need to do is move a bit sideways and they can take shots at its side armor, which is the exact same as that of a Taurox. In this case you paid 20 points for nothing. Sure, you get two lasgun arrays that can be fired at 2 different targets, but its not like S3 AP- shots are going to change anything. And the ability to ignore water features is virtually useless because when was the last time you played on a board that had a water feature? And even if you do, both vehicles with the dozerblades have an extremely good chance of passing their checks anyway.

A Chimera is good if it remains stationary. Which defeats the whole point of transport now, doesnt it? Especially in the age of ADLs and purchasable buildings.

Statistically speaking, a twin-linked Autocannon fired at BS3 has a greater success of scoring a glancing hit on AV10 than a S6 Multilaser fired at BS3 AND a S5 heavy bolter snapshoted at BS1 while the Chimera is on the move.

And if both vehicles move at cruising speed and snapshot their weapons, they virtually have the same rate of successfully doing a glance on AV10, with the added benefit of the tl-Autocannon being able to damage AV13 while the Chimera's weapons reap a higher death toll on infantry. But honestly - an IG player has more than enough anti-infantry at his disposal.

The Taurox also has the ability to dislodge its troops from the sides - something that cant be said about the chimera. Disembarking from the BACK is often detrimental to your troops because that puts them out of range of melta or plasma rapid-fire. And disembarking and firing is often crucial because next turn most of your squad is probably gone anyway. Multiple exits also make it harder for the enemy to block off the only access point and then blow up the tank to destroy the infantry within since emergency disembarkation will be impossible.

Chimera. The better armour goes a long way and the Taurox is one ugly box.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

diepotato47 wrote:
The extra fire points is what sells it to me...

Does the extra fire points really make much of a difference given they are on the other side of the vehicle? Are you actually getting to fire more than 2 weapons all that often?

Then the question is how valuable re-rolling DT tests are.

I've never run dozer blades, and I've never thought to myself 'Gee, I sure wish my Chimeras came standard with that ability'. Not that's its a bad thing for a vehicle to have, but its also not a big deal if it doesn't have it.

The extra AV doesn't mean too much on one vehicle, but put three, or six, or ten down on the table, and all of a sudden it becomes a pretty big advantage.

The TL Autocannon is indeed a better weapon, but multilaster/heavy bolter is far from useless. Its a better anti-horde weapon than the autocannon, and still does decent work putting wounds on bigger gribblies and stripping the occasional HP.

diepotato47 wrote:
Not really faster per say, but if you move 12" you at least have a Twin Linked gun, compared to a Chimera snap firing everything, and as has been mentioned, rerolling DTs

The Chimera's firing up to six shots however compared with two. Also if you're kitting out a Taurox with EA and Camo Netting, you've increased the vehicle cost by 50% (without increasing value by 50%) and you're paying as much for that Taurox as for a Razorback with *way* better weapons, better BS, and better side armor.

And this is all after the Chimera already got nerfed

AllSeeingSkink wrote:Statistically speaking, a twin-linked Autocannon fired at BS3 has a greater success of scoring a glancing hit on AV10 than a S6 Multilaser fired at BS3 AND a S5 heavy bolter snapshoted at BS1 while the Chimera is on the move.

And if both vehicles move at cruising speed and snapshot their weapons, they virtually have the same rate of successfully doing a glance on AV10, with the added benefit of the tl-Autocannon being able to damage AV13 while the Chimera's weapons reap a higher death toll on infantry. But honestly - an IG player has more than enough anti-infantry at his disposal.

The Autocannons in an anti-tank role on the Taurox are of limited use, the Taurox is probably going to be something of a priority target (since its easy to kill and carrying scoring infantry) and the single Autocannon, while more capable than a multilaser at AT, still isn't exactly spectacular, and you're probably going to have more specialized units for AT while your Chimeras often will make up lots of your anti-infantry firepower.

Also, if you're in a position where a gaming group doesn't have an issue with Forgeworld, you can give Chimeras autocannons anyway.

Chimera all the way!
IMO the Taurox has crappy armour, crappy gun and looks crappy. Yes it may be lower on points but I don't think its worth it. The chimera has a chance of lasting longer on the feild of battle.

The premier AT in my area is now Serpent Shields adn Gauss Cannons. Both Str 7. AV12 IS important.
Plus i refuse to spend hours converting a 50$ miniature for aeshetic reasons.

Both options are viable. It boils down to personal preference.

Chimera is a little costlier, but has superior armor value and armament (just having two weapons alone is enough to justify that, not even factoring in the lasgun arrays on the sides). The Chimera is my first choice in transport for Veterans.

The Taurox is cheaper, and does have the benefit of it's one gun being both a little bit more powerful, and twinlinked (Though you can run an autocannon turret on the Chimera as well, forgeworld rules, etc) while being a little easier/more reliable to move through cover, but honestly most boards don't have enough difficult terrain to worry with the reroll the taurox grants on it.

The ding to armor value, coupled with the presence of only one two shot gun vs. two three shot guns (or one 3 shot and a heavy flamer which is my preference) is my biggest reason for continuing to use the venerable Chimera transport for my veteran guardsman transport needs.

Just my thoughts. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

From everything I've read and seen, the Chimera edges out the Taurox for a mech vet list. There's also the very real issue that the Taurox is ugly, requires conversion work to look presentable, and it's $10 more expensive than the Chimera. Seems like a relatively easy choice to make!

OTOH buying the Taurox gives you the chance to unlock the Taurox Prime if you are going to use stormtroopers in your army, and the Prime is in a league of its own - a very useful glass cannon tool in the otherwise relatively immobile and ordnance dependent Imperial Guard AT firepower

The problem with the Prime is twofold, the Stormtroopers in that situation aren't any more capable than carapace vets but cost half again as much (and don't score), while the Prime after kit and whatnot is hitting triple digits or even battle tank territory in terms of cost, which doesn't cut it for an AV11/10/10 non-skimmer.

Unfortunately there's a reason the Militarum Tempestus book was dead on arrival :/

You can use turn 1 to have Vets or even regular guardsmen board it, or you can use it without anyone inside.

The point is it allows you to have a model that can zip around 12" a turn and still fire 2 main heavy weapons at BS4, all of which are in gross contrast to whats usually at an IG player's disposal. And oftentimes people underestimate LoS shenanigans when writing armylists on paper. On the actual battlefield, getting a clear shot is often half the battle.

On paper it looks like Chimera all the way. However, the Chimera is still AV 10 on the sides. Most of the time people just drive to get side armor on the Chimera. It isn't hard to do especially from the more mobile armies. It is still very easy to kill.

There are a few advantages to the Taurox. It is cheaper and it has a twin linked weapon with the dozer blade. It also has a small profile. This makes it fast and more disposable.It's doors let you get closer when you disembark. Guard suffer from lack of mobility due to our new book nerfs. The Taurox makes a great objective grabber. You just charge it into cover and drop your guys off and then oh well if it dies as it has accomplished its mission. Its length means you could also use it as a shield of LOS blocking for your squad. Due to its weakness, I find most opponents won't waste high power shots on them and if they do those are less shots on your more important vehicles. Also because it has an autocannon it kind of needs to die. If you drove it into a +4 cover that can actually be slightly difficult task. And if it survives, it will sit there all game being annoying for them.

I think taking all Taurox is a mistake. However, in a mech list taking a few Taurox with your Chimera wall main thrust is a great idea.

Both vehicles are over priced however.

I'm very much on the side of Chimera for Mech-vets, as the Taurox is too flimsy.
AV10 on the sides of a Chimera can be covered by Hellhounds at the flanks, or more Chimeras.

The only reason I got a Taurox model is as an adaptable 48" tank, and the Scions DS in elsewhere.
The Tempestus CS would go in a Chimera, for the command vehicle rule.

I also think it's interesting no one has brought up access points. With a Chimera if you want to jump out, it's back or nothing. Taurox has three, sides and rear, for much more awesome, like jumping out next to someone and rapid firing at them

diepotato47 wrote:
I also think it's interesting no one has brought up access points. With a Chimera if you want to jump out, it's back or nothing. Taurox has three, sides and rear, for much more awesome, like jumping out next to someone and rapid firing at them

Someone did just 2 posts earlier.

Chimera: Good as a light duty "tank" where dealing damage (front Hvy Mount, Turret hvy mount), protection (Front AV 12) and moving forward are all important = good all-round versatile troop transport. Best transport with squads that have attached characters with the extra capacity.

Taurox: Best application is objective grabber with terrain re-rolls and "opportunity fire" on the move. Can only carry standard squads since can only hold 10. Either put in cheap infantry or upgraded armored veterans due to ease of getting wrecked. The access points as mentioned does lend it well to a lightening attack and gives some versatility of hopping out the side that gives the most cover.

If I feel I need something to move across the board fast as a priority the Taurox wins (would field 1-2), the Chimera is more versatile for any role (would be less tempted to run flat-out with these though, would field these as the remainder).

I'd be more open to the Taurox if I could find a model or conversion of it that actually appealed to me.