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Was discussing this with a friend last night and I feel it's a real possibility.

What would happen if, at the time of the creation of the primarchs, an ork spore found its way into a primarch's gestation pod? Could one of the missing primarchs be a fly-esque half-ork? This may be why they were so heavily shunned by their brothers and father.

Mind= blown

Leaving aside the fact that it seems too imaginary even for WH40K..

Do we have some kind of examples of half orcs-half humans? I don't think there are actually any at all.

Also the very few clues we have on the matter aren't pointing towards this kind of directions.

Hmm, a distinct possibility I remember during a conversation between Magnus the Red and Lorgar it was mentioned that both Horus and Fulgrim upheld an oath taken never to speak of the two lost primarchs perhaps this has something to do with their involvement against the Ork Waaaagh at the Battle of Calth it would certainly lend a lot of weight as to why they were there in the first place.


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 Judge Dredd wrote:
Also the very few clues we have on the matter aren't pointing towards this kind of directions.

That seems like a very easy way out, I think that in a case like this it is all to easy to rule out any possibility the lack of fact or clues as you put it actually work in favour of Wing Wongs' theory.
Iknow that half orcs certainly exist within the Old World and with the two universes being intrinsically linked the probability of the primarchs banishing every half ork except for those on Gorkamorka would be well within there powers.

How would that have happened though? They were created in a lab under the Himalayas and as far as I know Orks have never set foot on Earth.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Hmm, a distinct possibility I remember during a conversation between Magnus the Red and Lorgar it was mentioned that both Horus and Fulgrim upheld an oath taken never to speak of the two lost primarchs perhaps this has something to do with their involvement against the Ork Waaaagh at the Battle of Calth it would certainly lend a lot of weight as to why they were there in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Judge Dredd wrote:
Also the very few clues we have on the matter aren't pointing towards this kind of directions.

That seems like a very easy way out, I think that in a case like this it is all to easy to rule out any possibility the lack of fact or clues as you put it actually work in favour of Wing Wongs' theory.
Iknow that half orcs certainly exist within the Old World and with the two universes being intrinsically linked the probability of the primarchs banishing every half ork except for those on Gorkamorka would be well within there powers.

I don't know how exactly saying that the few hints in the fluff (possibly the Ultramarines filling their ranks with SM from the two Lost Legions, for example, or legions questioned by the council of Terra before the Thousand Sons.. both facts, especially the first, that would rule out the Primarch orc theory ) are going in another direction is a very easy way out of this theory.

If we totally ignore the small clues and dialogues we have on the matter here and there every crazy theory is possible.

Also WHF and WH40K aren't canonically linked anymore as far as I know.

If there was a crack in the pod and it hit an ork spore on the waythrough space it could easily have penetrated the pod itself and gone into the primachs genetic coding and then created the first blueprint for the ork race. The old ones were probably responsible while they were attempting to make orks. This is why orks are humanoid.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
If there was a crack in the pod and it hit an ork spore on the waythrough space it could easily have penetrated the pod itself and gone into the primachs genetic coding and then created the first blueprint for the ork race. The old ones were probably responsible while they were attempting to make orks. This is why orks are humanoid.

Yes, it's very plausible if we choose to ignore everything ever written in the fluff and in canon novels

I don't understand your logic.
The op has come up with a rather fascinating theory that, until proven otherwise is as valuable as any other.
Why else would the two lost primarchs have been made unmentionable?
Also to clarify I don't think that the op feels that both primarchs have the orc geneseed but just one.

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I don't understand your logic.
The op has come up with a rather fascinating theory that, until proven otherwise is as valuable as any other.
Why else would the two lost primarchs have been made unmentionable?
Also to clarify I don't think that the op feels that both primarchs have the orc geneseed but just one.

He's saying that if that's what created the ork race, then we have to ignore the fact that they were first created by the old ones when humans were still apes swinging through trees. Also if that's what created the first orks, then how did that spore come to be?

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
Hmm, a distinct possibility I remember during a conversation between Magnus the Red and Lorgar it was mentioned that both Horus and Fulgrim upheld an oath taken never to speak of the two lost primarchs perhaps this has something to do with their involvement against the Ork Waaaagh at the Battle of Calth it would certainly lend a lot of weight as to why they were there in the first place.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Judge Dredd wrote:
Also the very few clues we have on the matter aren't pointing towards this kind of directions.

That seems like a very easy way out, I think that in a case like this it is all to easy to rule out any possibility the lack of fact or clues as you put it actually work in favour of Wing Wongs' theory.
Iknow that half orcs certainly exist within the Old World and with the two universes being intrinsically linked the probability of the primarchs banishing every half ork except for those on Gorkamorka would be well within there powers.

Certainly one of them could have landed on an Ork planet and fought to the top, uniting the Ork Klanz and then getting booted out of the history books when he Looted his Legion

This had some interesting ideas

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/367492.page

Boy, remember when the Orks attacked Terra? Me neither. Also, I thought in realm of Chaos or some sort of older materially they said Sigmar was a lost primarch?

One of the lost Primarchs must've been a woman, cos Empy accidentally put XX instead of XY.

She then became a slut, and started a love triangle with her brother Primarchs which devolved into open conflict.

She also made out with her own Astartes subordinates.

Her over possessive father the Empy got really ashamed of her and insisted she stay in the Imperial Palace so as not to cause any trouble.

Obviously this is highly embarrassing, that's why the Primarchs never talk about it.


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 Nightwalker wrote:
. Also, I thought in realm of Chaos or some sort of older materially they said Sigmar was a lost primarch?

That is just some silly fan idea.

 Nightwalker wrote:
Boy, remember when the Orks attacked Terra? Me neither. Also, I thought in realm of Chaos or some sort of older materially they said Sigmar was a lost primarch?

To be honest, the old fluff is probably completely forgotten by most of gws writers

Poly Ranger wrote:

 Alex Kolodotschko wrote:
I don't understand your logic.
The op has come up with a rather fascinating theory that, until proven otherwise is as valuable as any other.
Why else would the two lost primarchs have been made unmentionable?
Also to clarify I don't think that the op feels that both primarchs have the orc geneseed but just one.

He's saying that if that's what created the ork race, then we have to ignore the fact that they were first created by the old ones when humans were still apes swinging through trees. Also if that's what created the first orks, then how did that spore come to be?

Humanity had not even crawled out of the primordial oceans when the Krork were created by the Old Ones. That was a time over 60 million years ago.

No Primarch created the Orks. They, like the Eldar, were created by the Old Ones to fight the Necrons.

Do we have some kind of examples of half orcs-half humans? I don't think there are actually any at all.

Not in 40K. Orks aren't (since, like, 2nd Ed?) a race of creatures with sexual breeding characteristics. They're a fungus (sort of).

I may have this wrong but was under the impression that one of the legions was fed to russ ( very very old flufff?)and the other went into expanding the ultramarine numbers this is hinted at in a few books, betrayer and the 1st heretic

I think they killed themselves after witnessing an alternate reality in which people thought they might be Orks or Women or Eldar or Pancakes or Ultramarines or Pacifists or Retards or Squats or Horus Heresy novel fans.

Animus wrote:
I think they killed themselves after witnessing an alternate reality in which people thought they might be Orks or Women or Eldar or Pancakes or Ultramarines or Pacifists or Retards or Squats or Horus Heresy novel fans.

This.

Although not the OP's theory I came across this and thought I'd share.

Regardless, it seems the Legion was created in total secrecy on the Emperor's order. Information on the Legions own Gene-seed Legion was made top secret. Like the Salamanders and Space Wolves, the XXth Legion was formed and established largely in separation from the rest of the Legiones Astartes, likely for a very specific purpose. The earliest known activities of the legion saw it conduct abductions, targeted strikes, and assassinations to the Imperium's enemies on Terra and beyond. The designation for this mysterious special operations units, taking orders to none of the discovered Primarch at the time, was simply 'Alpha'.

Perhaps part of the answer (not that there really is one) is the II or XI legions were made for a purpose. Further reading on the Missing Legion page tells that the Emperor personally had them dealt with. So they either failed or performed too well and had to be eliminated.

Then there's this bit of info: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Two_unknown_legions Fear To Tread

When Horus asks Sanguinius why he never talked about that with his Primarch brothers and, above all, why he never asked for help from their creator, the Emperor, Sanguinius replies he feared the most radical solution his father could propose:

"You know the reason! [...] I will not be responsible for the erasure of the Blood Angels from Imperial history. I will not have a third empty plinth beneath the roof of the Hegemon as my Legion’s only memorial!"

While I doubt there is a half-Primarch half-Orc running around out there (who know's, Ghaz might be the guy!), it's not entirely impossible that a Primarch landed on an Ork infested world and escaped discovery until he grew up a little. When the Orks found him they saw another humie, and tried to kill him but he ended up killing them instead. As time went on and he naturally became strong, the Orks' might is right mentally naturally flocked to him (in the same way they like Giants in WHFB, because they smash things hard). By the time he was fully grown he was simply able to defeat the Warboss and become leader of the warband. Maybe by that stage he had become mutated into a hybrid afterall, not unlike Vulkan becoming dark-skinned like the native Nocturneans.

It's a wacky theory but who's to say the Beast or the Warboss on Ullanor isn't really a missing Primarch that got mutated into an Ork by Chaos?

 Deadshot wrote:
It's a wacky theory but who's to say the Beast or the Warboss on Ullanor isn't really a missing Primarch that got mutated into an Ork by Chaos?

Are Orks involved in Chaos though? I'm not disputing anything, just questioning this. I though Orks had no affiliation to Chaos, its all about Gork and Mork (or whatever).

I'm not saying a Chaos worshipping Ork, but rather a Primarch who is warped by Chaos to better reflect the Orks around him, in terms of body structure and skin colour. He would already have the size and strength to be one of them and with Might is Right as the political system, he would lead them already.

Orks can be involved in Chaos, but they generally become outcasts amongst their own kind, as such things are view as "unOrky".