Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

im looking at starting an army.

I dont want to have to field a horde army. Although my back up if i cant decide is orks (because i like their models so much).

My main enemy will be tau and eldar.

And im relatively new to the game, but i dont mind being tabled for the first 20 games if i'll eventually get better

I would probably go with Space Wolves out of the choices you listed there. They are reasonably powerful as a stand alone army, their model count is relatively low and the models are reasonably priced. They can also be played as SM if you get tired of the SW codex. BTW SM are the best standalone codex IMO as they have 3-4 distinct and powerful builds all without allies.

Orks are a huge investment in time and money. They are also a hard army to win with. They tend to be played alone without allies though so in that they fit your criteria well.

Grey Knights can work alone but they work much better with allies. They are however a relatively nice starter army as you don't need to buy and paint a lot of models.

Dark Eldar are the worst starter army. You need a lot of the same sort of units, their models are difficult to paint well, they are hard to learn, and they work best with Craftworld eldar allies. One the other hand their new codex is brilliant and when you get good with dark eldar your get good as a player.

So looking at the poll it's either going to be space wolves or grey knights? Can you play grey knights effectively without the need of allies?

Do space wolves have enough character to differentiate them from vanilla marines?

I actually think DE are the best stand-alone there.

Followed closly by orks and SW.


GK are not proper stand-alones. not in fluff nor in game.

Probably not the right place to put this thread tbh..

But as for starter armies I've been advised to stay away from dark eldar. Hard models to paint, hard to play... and apparently it's fairly hard to win with orks too. And they cost a bomb to buy!

SW have plenty of unique stuff to set them apart 2 new flyers, wolf cavalry, fenris wolves, 2 unique detachments, a dreadnought special character, unique dreadnoughts, etc. Though TBH their aesthetic and play style do not appeal to me.

I really like the new GK but they are not a stand alone force in the fluff. They can be used as a standalone force but they tend to be inferior standalone. They are the cheapest of these armies to get into and they have a very distinctive play style that is highly mobile and flexible.

If you really like DE then make sure you really do like them (I would recommend finding someone who plays them and trying them out first). They are a great army and if you like them and stick with it you will get great at the game. However they are fragile and so big mistakes will see you wiped off the board rather than just put a little behind.

Orks have one of the most loyal followings, a great modle range, and in general are a ton of fun. They do however have one of the highest usd/point of any range. They literally have models that cost more than 2 usd per point...imagine a 1750 pts army. A decent ork army (1750 pts) will cost ~1000 usd for the models and will be 150+ models to assemble and paint. Orks are still not easy to play well and games can be very long due to large model counts. If orks still appeal to you after understanding all of that you will end up collecting one of the most fulfilling armies in 40K with some of the best models and most enjoyable backgrounds. The rules are okay as well though I personally found the new rules to be kind of annoying.

Space wolves are growing on me. And I prefer their fluff rather then their models at the moment. But they are growing...

Grey knight I love their background and I love their models! But I really don't want to ally my army... So I'd rather not handicap myself in that way...

Dark eldar are still hit and miss. Gorgeous models... when painted well. I barely paint and I'm not the best so I dunno if they'd lose their appeal..

Orks are the army I'd like to play .. but just too expensive at the moment in time. I'd like a more elite army though

You don't play orkses to win tournaments. You play orkses cause you adore orkses. Ability to win is just a fancy addition to being awesome.

If orks are the army you really want thenn i would yust go for themm you don;t need a whole waagh at once, build it up slowly and look around you can find themm cheaper.

Do yourself a favor and play orks with a boat load of trukk boyz. Exploding ork vehicles with masses of dead boyz equals a win every time. And you get all that joy with a one time codex purchase of 49.99.

well i have an army list set out for orks already....

warboss in mega armour power claw plus da finkin cap
Pain boy
3 mega nobz (1 with killsaws, 2 kombi scorchas)
All in a trukk.

11 boyz, plus nob upgrade in a trukk
11 boyz, plus nob upgrade in a trukk
11 boyz, plus nob upgrade in a trukk
11 boyz, plus nob upgrade in a trukk

Morkanaut, grot riggers and kustom Force Field.

Battlewagon, 19 ork boyz, with nob upgrade.

Blitza Bommer

1 Mek Gun - Kustom Mega Kannon

1 Mek Gun - Smasha Gun

all that for roughly £430 ish ... and just about breaking 1600 points if i gave all the nobz power claws :/

i love the models. Just they're so expensive! and such a ball ache to paint them all!

I'm guessing you don't want to play a gunline army, judging by that list.

If the Orks are a no-go for now, I'd look into SW. As a whole, they have hands-down best CC options in the game, while still having decent supporting fire options.

Plus, they're not an Elite army, but none of their good options are exactly cheap (points-wise, not money-wise). So you don't need to spend a fortune to have a good army.

well for the same money cost i could effectively buy

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Space-Wolves-Armoured-Assault

Which i quite like the look of. Can you take Logan Grimnar without that damn sledge thing he has?

Wolves are probably the best generalists out of that list. DE and GK can struggle against certain builds, and I don't know that much about new Orks.

In the new Ork Codex, there's a unique force organization chart for the Ork Horde Detachment. It allows Orks to field one more HQ and 3 more Troops than normal. On top of that, you get the Boss of the WAAAGH! special rule for fielding the Ork Horde as your primary detachment and The Greenskin Hordes just for fielding the detachment in the first place.

It's completely possible to field 7 'HQs' in the new Ork codex as well, as Ghazghkull Thraka takes the Lord of War slot and can be designated as your Warlord. Then you can field 3 Painboyz, Warbosses or Big Meks. On top of that you can field 3 regular Meks as you can field 1 without taking up an HQ slot for each HQ you have that's not a regular Mek.

There really is no reason to ally Orks with anyone since Ork players can finally deploy a true green tide.

Voted Space Wolves; they are more forgiving to play than Grey Knights and Dark Eldar; Orks are fun but perhaps not the easiest army to win with at the moment. SW have a lot of options currently, with Stormclaw there is a plethora of low cost SW models floating around and as a standalone I think they are better than GK, DE and Orks.

I voted Space Wolves for reasons stated above - more forgiving to play, which is quite important if you are new to 40k, as well as not really being a horde army.

The army you should collect is the one that you enjoy the look of most, or how they play. See if you can find some players with the armies that you like the look off, ask to play a few games with their models (or observe) and then make your decision with the knowledge you should have.

It's early days, but I think that Dark Eldar might struggle a bit with high AV armies, so I voted Wolves.

Kholzerino wrote:
It's early days, but I think that Dark Eldar might struggle a bit with high AV armies, so I voted Wolves.

This is literally impossible. All of the DE anti tank weapons are either haywire or lance...therefore AV13-14 are no different than AV12. Now what they do struggle against is AV12 spammed like serpent spam and MC with 2+ saves can give some builds trouble.

 ansacs wrote:

Kholzerino wrote:
It's early days, but I think that Dark Eldar might struggle a bit with high AV armies, so I voted Wolves.

This is literally impossible. All of the DE anti tank weapons are either haywire or lance...therefore AV13-14 are no different than AV12. Now what they do struggle against is AV12 spammed like serpent spam and MC with 2+ saves can give some builds trouble.

Dark Lances can strip wounds of Riptides and co quite easily being S8 AP2 and lots of poison shots can force saves.

But other than that little nitpick, pretty much this (Serpent Shield too stronk against DE)

Tau pretty much counter DE with the ignore cover so that isn't a big deal, your best bet is to go SW because they go the flexibility to deal with everything somehow.

 Frozocrone wrote:
Dark Lances can strip wounds of Riptides and co quite easily being S8 AP2 and lots of poison shots can force saves.

But other than that little nitpick, pretty much this (Serpent Shield too stronk against DE)

That is why I put the qualifier "some builds". I have seen a considerable shift away from dark lances in 7ed. The change to the damage table, rise of serpent spam and knights, and the easy to get cover saves and 3++ invulnerables on MC have made the dark lance less and less effective. Interesting enough the new grenade launchers could remove Tau models almost wholesale if you take them and the armour. I am really considering a list based around haywire, disintegrators, splinter, and grenade launchers.

 ansacs wrote:

 Frozocrone wrote:
Dark Lances can strip wounds of Riptides and co quite easily being S8 AP2 and lots of poison shots can force saves.

But other than that little nitpick, pretty much this (Serpent Shield too stronk against DE)

That is why I put the qualifier "some builds". I have seen a considerable shift away from dark lances in 7ed. The change to the damage table, rise of serpent spam and knights, and the easy to get cover saves and 3++ invulnerables on MC have made the dark lance less and less effective. Interesting enough the new grenade launchers could remove Tau models almost wholesale if you take them and the armour. I am really considering a list based around haywire, disintegrators, splinter, and grenade launchers.

Yes, I can see it now, for some reason I stopped reading

I feel like GW is making armies like this on purpose where allies would benefit you much more than simply playing strictly to your codex.

Well, against Tau and Eldar most armies out there will get shot down.
This particularly holds for Marine armies since they tend to be rather slow.
Maybe you are best off with Orks or DE.
The latter army is rather fast and may gain cover when it advances.

Don't space wolves get drop pods in fast attack? And don't they have a flyer that can carry 16 models? Plus land raiders which got a lot more difficult to pop this edition. I can't really see how orks and dark eldar would be better. Bolters glance armour 10 to death. Tau troop guns pen them on a 6. At least with multiple drop pods you can be in there face already. Drop a long fang squad down and watch the tau fire warriors cry when you spit heavy Bolters in their face or that's how I imagine anyway haha

wuestenfux wrote:Well, against Tau and Eldar most armies out there will get shot down.

Tau and Eldar excel in ignore cover Str 7+ shooting and Str 5 shooting.

wuestenfux wrote:Maybe you are best off with Orks or DE.
The latter army is rather fast and may gain cover when it advances.

Which means that a DE list filled with AV10 and depending on cover gets shredded. The same for a mechanized Ork list (which btw then punches itself after the transports explode). If the orks are not meched up then it is pretty slow.

wuestenfux wrote:This particularly holds for Marine armies since they tend to be rather slow.

Marine armies have absolutely no excuse to be slow. SM have biker troops, scouting rhinos, and drop pods. SW have drop pods, rhinos, and flyer dedicated transports in for a troops selection. If marines are slow it is entirely the fault of the player and not the army.

Andy140491 wrote:Don't space wolves get drop pods in fast attack? And don't they have a flyer that can carry 16 models? Plus land raiders which got a lot more difficult to pop this edition. I can't really see how orks and dark eldar would be better. Bolters glance armour 10 to death. Tau troop guns pen them on a 6. At least with multiple drop pods you can be in there face already. Drop a long fang squad down and watch the tau fire warriors cry when you spit heavy Bolters in their face or that's how I imagine anyway haha

Space Wolves are pretty durable overall. They have pretty good flyers, Thunder Wolf Calvary is quite effective and mobile, and they get some great detachments.

FA drop pods btw are only really good for allies to hitch a ride in. If you DS your long fangs you will have to snap fire that turn, plus they can already purchase a drop pod as a dedicated transport.

Hmm I'm still pretty rusty! Haha.

I'm gonna have a walk into my local shop today and decide whilst I'm there what army in want. It's looking very likely to be space wolves. I'm still tempted by grey knights though for some reason :/

 Andy140491 wrote:
Hmm I'm still pretty rusty! Haha.

I'm gonna have a walk into my local shop today and decide whilst I'm there what army in want. It's looking very likely to be space wolves. I'm still tempted by grey knights though for some reason :/

Both armies, GK and SW, are decent choices.
You cannot make something wrong.
I'm a bit bias since I have a GK army.
Shunting units, cheaper Termies and Purifiers with cleansing flame would get my vote.

GK aren't a purely ally army. While they do work extremely well with allies they are also perfectly good on their own.

Their play style is completely different from most armies as well and you will love having 165 point termy squads.

You also have to consider what you will do when you start a new army. Generally gk will be the best for allying with your new stuff once you move on and often have the best builds for the lower point games