Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Marklarr wrote:

‘GW pushed out what? 15-16 codices in the space of a year, maybe even more? And now, they are down to SW, Orkz, SoB and GSC as the only main factions without a new codex and they haven't released one since the Knights codex over a month ago?’ I don’t get the point you are making? Im going to guess you feel they are entitled to something because of this?

With regards to ‘they are coming’ tell me how GW has lied about this? Are they not coming? Did they give you, personally a release date, then change it? Please share if so. Again, I don’t really understand what you are getting at, I’ll put this down as entitlement issues again.
...

Problem is that previously GW started to release information 2 weeks-1 month after announcement of a codex. This has been true for all codexes so far if I'm not mistaking. So naturally, people have been expecting information for either Wolves or Orks and got mighty pissed off when it didn't come. They didn't give any release date, but at the very least they could have warned that main focus was going to be other releases, so people would not get so burned out by lack of expected info. Add the fact that we've seen an entirely new faction getting their own codex before orks, articles in WD that use Stompas and Kanz as punching bags for new imperial units, as well as multiple claims about various ork units being viable at the start of 8th (while they are not) and you start seing the problem. Point is, we are not seing any effort, and given the neglect for orks so far, it is getting people anxious. What if we've been waiting for 7th ed tier codex for over a year?

So yeah, they could have easily avoid creating unnessesary tention within community by being more transparent or engaged, but they didn't. Thus GW deserves the backlash, since they've created all the conditions for it. Note that I do not approve of people pestering GW Facebook representatives (although this is also GW's fault in a way, since Facebook is pretty much the only way to voice our concerns properly). Nor I approve of defeatist endless whining. But claiming that treating a dedicated fanbase like this is an a-ok thing is rubbish.

Ravemastaj wrote:

Militarum Tempestus Command Squad Spam
Cheap as chips plasma for the above
Commissars that ensured conscripts ignored all morale
50 man conscript blobs
Dakkabot Cawl (until the next round of codexes and power creep made it 'normal')

Most of what I listed was fixed after the codex dropped. If orks are the powerhogs as the last codex, I would not be mad. They SHOULD get at least one broken rule set. Gulliman KNOWS the Imperium has several broken things already.

I personally don't want a broken rule set that gets carried by 1-2 unintended OP rules/combinations, but rather a varied one. Where I can take any unit without the feeling like I've just gimped myself really hard. I'm fairly sure that a lot of people on forums share my point of view. Having a "Its our time to be broken!" mindset is not a good one.

 Rismonite wrote:
You seem to be lost, this is the unofficial ork wishlisting, complaining, maffhammerin, and sometimes taktikz thread not the 40k Army Lists forum.

Yeah by the looks of it you're still right about that.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Painboy on a bike is, in my experience, a complete waste. You can afford to take 2 on foot if you take him out. Is there a particular reason you've left him in? Apart from that the list looks good but nothing really groundbreaking here... (hence the wishlisting/complaining).

Yeah mostly because ITC encourages movement, I don't want to hamper my stormboy movement, and I think the powerklaw is worth using (since you never do when it's on foot). I would like to squeeze another walking painboy in dedicated to the wierdboyz, but I'm just taking boyz out for him, and I think the math doesn't work out for me if I'm doing that.

And yeah, there's nothing to ground break. But that doesn't mean tuning lists isn't helpful. The meta is moving and there are things to talk about if you're so inclined. I could easily drop two HQ and add 5 KMK, add tank bustas (as recommended), or make a flying contingent. I originally had 15 tank bustas with 4 bomb squiggs to jump them in to action as I used to do, but I feel that the beta changes have turned that strategy off. I think an option is to drop the 30 stormboyz and just pack in more HQ, I think if I had 3 warbosses on bikes w/ PKs instead of 30 stormboyz I might get more done. For example:

Threat range of warbosses on bikes is pretty brutal now, I would probably play this list if I had the models.

edit: So this list makes Zhadsnark heaaaaaps better, since he can now advance and charge to support other warbosses on bikes (since their rule enables him to adv->charge). Thats 21"+2d6 threat range. I think turn 1 you move up the board while they shoot your KMK. turn 2 you jump a squad in the middle of their army, then move HQ around the flanks. If the big mob lands a charge, then charge with all your bikes and the big mob protects the characters for ages since they'll likely be the closest. I dunno, I would play like that if I had 5 warbosses on bikes.
edit 2: Rule of three :( :( :(


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also: I've actually read the past few pages (go me, it was hard btw) and I feel for you Jidmah. You post here on the forums a lot, almost like it's a bit of a home for you, and I would be annoyed if my second home started filling up with what you are perceiving (people crying).

It's just not fun to hang around, and it pushes people like myself away. I want to be here and talk strategy and help newbies, I want to talk about the nuances of our lists and some cool thing I learned about tri-pointing after charging etc... but I CBF reading 10 posts about the new codex between every 1 good question.

You guys think its harmless wishlisting and complaining, and certainly you are entitled to complain, don't let me stop you. But know that you are building the forums in your image. Where do you think everyone else has gone? I'm on discords and facebook groups to get informative and strategic discussions, I can't do it here :(

 hollow one wrote:
It's just not fun to hang around, and it pushes people like myself away. I want to be here and talk strategy and help newbies, I want to talk about the nuances of our lists and some cool thing I learned about tri-pointing after charging etc... but I CBF reading 10 posts about the new codex between every 1 good question.

You guys think its harmless wishlisting and complaining, and certainly you are entitled to complain, don't let me stop you. But know that you are building the forums in your image. Where do you think everyone else has gone? I'm on discords and facebook groups to get informative and strategic discussions, I can't do it here :(

In my experience, facebook groups and discord channels are just as negative as here, if not more so. I also find there is a drought of tactical discussion.

I get you want to talk tactics and nuance but I think for many (myself included) we've run dry on that front. I know how to get the most out of a charge via positioning. I know how to surround a unit to stop it moving. I know that KMK + Greentide + Weirdboy with optional Tank Bustas in a Trukk for flavour and dependent on meta is the go-to list right now.

MY list, FYI, has Bikes, Koptas, Trukks, Nobz and Meks in. It doesn't do very well, regardless of how well I roll and play. I know I could improve it by adding KMKs, but I don't want to jump on a bandwagon and I'm absolutely unwilling to give up my Evil Sunz roots. Discussing the list is pointless here though, because it is extremely inefficient. It's only saving grace is that people are so confused by it, they don't know what many of the units do and don't play particularly well against it.

Zhadsnark should be able to advance and charge himself, it's really stupid he can't.

Has anyone here had much success with a flame-trukk? Either filled with 5 nobz w/ kombi-skorchas (and probably som grot oilers for cheap wounds and maybe power stabbas since they're cheap) or burnas? I get that burnas aren't all that great but I want to try and make them work somewhat.. Obviously this isn't for a tournament type list.

Is it worth it to add in a spanner or two with kombi-skorchas? Is it even worth charging stuff you're not guaranteed to kill with the nobz then?

I like the visual of a trukk advancing forward, spewing fire. But as of right now I'm not sure whether I can scrounge up enough bits to convert 5 kombi-skorchas. Obviously I could do a count-as in the meantime but would be fun hearing if someone had some experience wiuth them.

PiñaColada wrote:
Has anyone here had much success with a flame-trukk? Either filled with 5 nobz w/ kombi-skorchas (and probably som grot oilers for cheap wounds and maybe power stabbas since they're cheap) or burnas? I get that burnas aren't all that great but I want to try and make them work somewhat.. Obviously this isn't for a tournament type list.

Is it worth it to add in a spanner or two with kombi-skorchas? Is it even worth charging stuff you're not guaranteed to kill with the nobz then?

I like the visual of a trukk advancing forward, spewing fire. But as of right now I'm not sure whether I can scrounge up enough bits to convert 5 kombi-skorchas. Obviously I could do a count-as in the meantime but would be fun hearing if someone had some experience wiuth them.

I tried running burnas a couple time when the index dropped. They're really really underwhelming on their own. Paired with a trukk being too expensive, they end up as a weak unit combo. Useable only in extremely casual games.

Haven't tried kskorcha nobz. I suspect you're just better off with more nobz and ammo runts. I've run bigchoppa nobz in trukks and...expectedly, they're also underwhelming. Used to be passable when the index dropped but not so much now as the power creep has made anything other than horde boyz and kmk not worth taking.

 koooaei wrote:

I tried running burnas a couple time when the index dropped. They're really really underwhelming on their own. Paired with a trukk being too expensive, they end up as a weak unit combo. Useable only in extremely casual games.

Haven't tried kskorcha nobz. I suspect you're just better off with more nobz and ammo runts. I've run bigchoppa nobz in trukks and...expectedly, they're also underwhelming. Used to be passable when the index dropped but not so much now as the power creep has made anything other than horde boyz and kmk not worth taking.

Ok thanks. Sort of what I expected then with regards to the burnas (and mirroring the few times I've tried burnas myself) My entire ork list is pretty casual but some units are so underwhelming they stick out like a sore thumb in even those types of lists. I'm wondering if burnas woud be worth it if the still had d3 shots but with skorcha stats instead?

I think the kombi-skorcha could have some potential (especially if we get a rule where we always hit on 6's so the shoota rounds aren't completely wasted). The problem with those guns are the cost. Considering all flamers are too expensive I can't imagine they'll be lowered too much though. Maybe if the ammo runts added an extra hit with skorchas or something?

Alternatively it'd be cool if the trukks themselves could get skorchas.

PiñaColada wrote:

 koooaei wrote:

I tried running burnas a couple time when the index dropped. They're really really underwhelming on their own. Paired with a trukk being too expensive, they end up as a weak unit combo. Useable only in extremely casual games.

Haven't tried kskorcha nobz. I suspect you're just better off with more nobz and ammo runts. I've run bigchoppa nobz in trukks and...expectedly, they're also underwhelming. Used to be passable when the index dropped but not so much now as the power creep has made anything other than horde boyz and kmk not worth taking.

Ok thanks. Sort of what I expected then with regards to the burnas (and mirroring the few times I've tried burnas myself) My entire ork list is pretty casual but some units are so underwhelming they stick out like a sore thumb in even those types of lists. I'm wondering if burnas woud be worth it if the still had d3 shots but with skorcha stats instead?

I think the kombi-skorcha could have some potential (especially if we get a rule where we always hit on 6's so the shoota rounds aren't completely wasted). The problem with those guns are the cost. Considering all flamers are too expensive I can't imagine they'll be lowered too much though. Maybe if the ammo runts added an extra hit with skorchas or something?

Alternatively it'd be cool if the trukks themselves could get skorchas.

Honestly, if I had burna boyz I probably would be bringing two trukkz of burna boyz and two trukkz of tankbustas by now. If you need an anti infantry unit (sometimes needed in mechanized lists), you have shoota boyz, flash gitz, and the Dakkajet to compare burna boyz to. Not accounting for range the Burna Boyz have more output and if you can get them into combat first the -2 AP can clean up marines. A lot of turn one shooting will likely go at other targets in your trukk list. Problem with everything I've said soo far is that mechanized orkz is just too bad right now.

geargutz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis is being the voice of reason of the ork community.

Everything has gone to hell.

is it me or does it seem like jidmah just ignored many other ork posters here and only sees semper as the voice of reason.

like a weird selective hearing/reading.

It's just you. You made up the word "only" in your head thought it was real.

Semper stood just out to me he usually has the exact opposite opinion to me

I'm quite happy that a bunch of other ork players feel the same way I do, I guess they just stopped posting because there is little left to say about orks.

 Jidmah wrote:

geargutz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis is being the voice of reason of the ork community.

Everything has gone to hell.

is it me or does it seem like jidmah just ignored many other ork posters here and only sees semper as the voice of reason.

like a weird selective hearing/reading.

It's just you. You made up the word "only" in your head thought it was real.

Semper stood just out to me he usually has the exact opposite opinion to me

I'm quite happy that a bunch of other ork players feel the same way I do, I guess they just stopped posting because there is little left to say about orks.

Yeah im not really sure what else there is to say. I think most of us would be happy with an Ork codex on the same competitiveness and versatility as the tyranid codex, and a new warboss model. Done. Ezpz

Yeah, a new warboss with an awesome looking big choppa would be something I'd instantly buy.

I wander in once in a great while to see what's new but don't post often as:

1.) this thread is mostly for WAAC lists and that's not really my style of play

2.) what's to say about an index army that's been discussed to death?


In reply to the burna truck question earlier, I find them hyper underwhelming. A better combo is a big trakk with the super skorcha and if you can find points, two additional regular skorchas. Super skorcha might be our best ranged weapon in the whole army.

Nuck Fewton wrote:
I wander in once in a great while to see what's new but don't post often as:

1.) this thread is mostly for WAAC lists and that's not really my style of play

2.) what's to say about an index army that's been discussed to death?


In reply to the burna truck question earlier, I find them hyper underwhelming. A better combo is a big trakk with the super skorcha and if you can find points, two additional regular skorchas. Super skorcha might be our best ranged weapon in the whole army.

Yeah, the super skorcha looks pretty solid. It's a shame that it's a heavy weapon which makes normal skorchas seem a little less worthwhile on ithe big trakk because getting them in range is going to be tougher. I've been toying with scratch-building a big trakk since the FW model is pretty terrible in my opinion. Iit's one of those possible projects that I'm waiting on the codex before I'll dive into.

Hi, just started playing 40k again after about 20 years out, had a couple of small points games against a friend who plays tau.
So far stand out units are truck shoota boyz and vanilla boyz (I guess the boyz being good thing has been covered a little bit on here!)
On a side note I took a 5 man kommando squad that are aloud to take 2 burners for no extra cost it seems quite good to be able to take them, cheaper than Burna Boyz and can infiltrate.

Mork bless the Big Trakks and the Supa-Skorchas!

 Jidmah wrote:

geargutz wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
SemperMortis is being the voice of reason of the ork community.

Everything has gone to hell.

is it me or does it seem like jidmah just ignored many other ork posters here and only sees semper as the voice of reason.

like a weird selective hearing/reading.

It's just you. You made up the word "only" in your head thought it was real.

Semper stood just out to me he usually has the exact opposite opinion to me

I'm quite happy that a bunch of other ork players feel the same way I do, I guess they just stopped posting because there is little left to say about orks.

just gonna quickly respond to this. at this point i have little to add to this thread (besides that you guys should get over the "thread derail" and "noh moar negativ" stuff, its bound to happen, get used to it ).

jidmah, you didn't say "only" but heavily implied it even if you didn't mean to. you listed one name..."semper", then said they were "the voice of reason". that is a pretty singular statement. it implied that semper was the only voice of reason. now if you meant for that to apply to multiple people then you could've said "semper is one of the voices of reason".

i did add "only" but because i incorrectly assumed what you meant by your lack of semantics.

but if that was your intention then that's fine, ill accept that, just don't blame me for misinterpreting what you said when you could've been more clear about it.

geargutz wrote:
just don't blame me for misinterpreting what you said

Also not real, that's just in your head.

 Jidmah wrote:

geargutz wrote:
just don't blame me for misinterpreting what you said

Also not real, that's just in your head.

what kinda response is that? seemes very school yard politics to me, "i didnt make any mistakes, its all in your head!"

In regards to my earlier question about flame-trukks, I've looked around the forgeworld index a bit and realised that the grot mega tank can take a pretty scary amount of dakka. 7 skorchas, a shoota and 2 boom kanisters comes to 208 points I think. Or switch the skorchas for grotzookas and it's like 160 points, which might be the better build snce then a "mutiny" roll of a 6 is still pretty useful.

Has anyone tried the GMT? It seems very fragile though, both for it's points and especially considering it looks to be around battlewagon sized. My guess is that it's pretty difficult to rely on the GMT doing anything considering its movement and its shooting is random.

But its damn charming

Not had a chance to do it yet, But i have plans for a grot tank division, which could be fun

Grot tanks look so damned cool and the idea of them is awesome, but as has previously been said, the rules for those guys are so terrible that even in friendly games they don't make much sense.

If you're fixed on flamers, you can run skorcha trakks. They're pretty bad but better than anything else with a flamer in the index.
Not exactly using flamers but Burna bomber can be ok. Don't expect it to do much but it's not half bad vs some targets. It's pretty good for just being there and denying wipeouts. It explodes on 4+ dealing 3 mw to stuff around so the enemy will either ignore it if it'close or will be forced to maneuvre. Grot gunners are basically characters without a character keyword and this plane will nake it harder for your opponent to wipe them out when there's nothing left of your army other than grot gunners. This usually happens around turn 4.
Kskorchas can be used in biker cgaracters. Too expensive to be good but not super horrible.
Big trakk with a 4d3 supaskorcha is decent. If you don't mind fw, it's the best flamer source we have access to. Though, expect it to be comparatively better as the power creep spirals up. Fw rarely updates their rules.

 koooaei wrote:
If you're fixed on flamers, you can run skorcha trakks. They're pretty bad but better than anything else with a flamer in the index.
Not exactly using flamers but Burna bomber can be ok. Don't expect it to do much but it's not half bad vs some targets. It's pretty good for just being there and denying wipeouts. It explodes on 4+ dealing 3 mw to stuff around so the enemy will either ignore it if it'close or will be forced to maneuvre. Grot gunners are basically characters without a character keyword and this plane will nake it harder for your opponent to wipe them out when there's nothing left of your army other than grot gunners. This usually happens around turn 4.
Kskorchas can be used in biker cgaracters. Too expensive to be good but not super horrible.
Big trakk with a 4d3 supaskorcha is decent. If you don't mind fw, it's the best flamer source we have access to. Though, expect it to be comparatively better as the power creep spirals up. Fw rarely updates their rules.

Yeah, the big trakk with the super skorcha looks like a much better deal really. It's quite possible I'll end up building a big trakk and a GMT just because I like grots too much to not include some of their vehicles. I'll probably end up converting some skorcha-trakks as well at some point assuming they don't get a new kit. It's a shame most of my opponents run pretty vehicle heavy lists so all these skorchas would end up doing very little haha.

"Zhadsnark should be able to advance and charge himself, it's really stupid he can't."

This! He has been my favorite warboss since I learned of him years ago. I even converted one for play. This addition I have used him extensively. He has done exceptionally well for me, especially since the change to biker warbosses nearby who will allow him to advance and charge. Gun liine opponents do their best to shoot him and his revenue before he reaches them because they know a power Klaw with no negative that hits on 2s is disgustingly good. I usually give him legendary fighter to get him another attack. If I didn't have to take another warboss to advance and charge him i would definitely use the points elsewhere.

An excuse to show him off

nice biker boss (zhadsnark). man, those AOBR warbosses are some of the most prolific models that is no longer sold (except for maybe vadros). its such a great model.

man, if they just reprinted the AOBR defkopta and warboss with more wpn options and customization then that would solve some of the "lack of HQ and other plastic models" issues our faction suffers.

geargutz wrote:
nice biker boss (zhadsnark). man, those AOBR warbosses are some of the most prolific models that is no longer sold (except for maybe vadros). its such a great model.

man, if they just reprinted the AOBR defkopta and warboss with more wpn options and customization then that would solve some of the "lack of HQ and other plastic models" issues our faction suffers.

I really dislike the AOBR warboss, I think its the pose of his claw just out to the side, looks weird to me. I ended up cutting it off one of mine and putting it on the AoS Megaboss, now THAT is an awesome warboss model imo.

That said, the zhadsnark converison looks great! We def do need the plastic AOBR deffkopta kits back assuming those models are useable with the codex

The good part about that pose is that the model is really easy to convert. You can use the klaw for other things, add a different arm, put the boss on a bike, a boar, build MA around him, whatever.

So looks like spacewolves and genestealers cult this week. Orks are last I guess.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So looks like spacewolves and genestealers cult this week. Orks are last I guess.

I think GSC is getting models and a box but isn't getting a codex until after us, or at least that is what they made it seem like.

TheunlikelyGamer wrote:
So looks like spacewolves and genestealers cult this week. Orks are last I guess.

GSC are still after orks, they're just getting new models right now.

It's pretty much like the knights' armingers in the forgebane box.