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Now, the Imperial Knights are BB with the Inperium, so it is no surprise to see them in SM, AM or GK armies. However, a number of Chaos and Tyranid players are doing whatever it takes to bring these big boys into their force, even though they looks ugly and out of place. They don't even try to paint Chaos Knights, which (almost always) are Slaanesh, by the way. Is that really necessary, though? I have seen very few Eldar x IK lists even though they are Allies of Convenience, and virtually no IK x Tau.

This is a pathetic attempt if you ask me. Sure, I would love to have some Imperial Knights in my army, but as long as my Grey Knights cannot use Psychic Power on my Eldar allies, which they should, I will remain distasteful towards anyone bringing Not Before Apocalypse for the sake of bringing cheesy onto stale bread.

You realize that back in 6th edition when the IK codex was released they were BB with all armies that now comprise IoM with the exception of GK, right?

IMO, Chaos should have had access to IK to begin with, since some of the Houses probably joined with Horus.

Er, OK?

I'm not totally up on the rules of 40K as of 7th edition, but...

Can't anyone bring anything under the "Unbound" stipulation?

Sure it may not be too Fluffy, but this is what GW is convinced we were all looking for?

I don't see what's wrong with fielding a knight with your army. I would definitely prefer seeing chaos knights or even 'absorbed' knights for 'nids, but I know not everyone has the patience for conversions.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, OK?

I'm not totally up on the rules of 40K as of 7th edition, but...

Can't anyone bring anything under the "Unbound" stipulation?

Sure it may not be too Fluffy, but this is what GW is convinced we were all looking for?

This.

Personally I don't like "Unbound" but the point of the rule is to give people official permission to add Knights or any other unit to any army they might wish to place on table.

Actually it would be fun to make an army consisting entirely of Knights, Riptides, Trygons, Defilers and other giant monsterish creaturebots.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, OK?

I'm not totally up on the rules of 40K as of 7th edition, but...

Can't anyone bring anything under the "Unbound" stipulation?

Sure it may not be too Fluffy, but this is what GW is convinced we were all looking for?

If you are playing Unbound, then that is fine. I am talking about people bringing Not Before Apocalypse alliance into Tournaments which clearly only allows Combined Arms Detachment.

bibotot wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, OK?

I'm not totally up on the rules of 40K as of 7th edition, but...

Can't anyone bring anything under the "Unbound" stipulation?

Sure it may not be too Fluffy, but this is what GW is convinced we were all looking for?

If you are playing Unbound, then that is fine. I am talking about people bringing Not Before Apocalypse alliance into Tournaments which clearly only allows Combined Arms Detachment.

Battle-forged armies can field knights all they like, as knights use their own chart. Come the Apocalypse can also be brought fine and dandy as per the rules, as long as the minimum 1 HQ and 1 Troop is fielded.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kilkrazy wrote:

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, OK?

I'm not totally up on the rules of 40K as of 7th edition, but...

Can't anyone bring anything under the "Unbound" stipulation?

Sure it may not be too Fluffy, but this is what GW is convinced we were all looking for?

This.

Personally I don't like "Unbound" but the point of the rule is to give people official permission to add Knights or any other unit to any army they might wish to place on table.

Actually it would be fun to make an army consisting entirely of Knights, Riptides, Trygons, Defilers and other giant monsterish creaturebots.

An army like that would be pretty cool, especially if every 'monster' was made to look different. It could be a giant freakshow monsterpocalypse!

What bothers me most is not people wanting to play something, it's that people like the OP feel the need that others play they way they deem right. :(

If you do not want to play against people who include this in their army then just don't. I even can understand it since I do not want to play against dogmatic people who place their view of the fluff over shared fun in a game.

In terms of the game I think that Unbound is great. Anyone can play anything and there is no more "but your army can field xy". Just like with Magic: The Gathering, just put something together, play with it and have fun.

Yes, I think this "abuse" is a problem, but not for the same reason you object to it. Nobody would be taking imperial knights in their non-imperial army if those other armies had access to similar units of their own. The only reason people take CTA knights is that it's the only way to get a knight equivalent for their army. I suspect that the vast majority of that "abuse" would disappear overnight if GW released appropriate knight-equivalent models for every army instead of limiting them to one faction.

bibotot wrote:
I am talking about people bringing Not Before Apocalypse alliance into Tournaments which clearly only allows Combined Arms Detachment.

And what's the problem with that? In 7th edition CTA merely determines how your models interact with each other on the table, it doesn't prevent you from bringing them in a battle-forged army. The old "can't take these at all" restriction of 6th edition is gone and replaced by "you can take them, but they have even more in-game penalties than desperate allies".

Dude, anyone can ally with anyone nowadays. It's like a toga party at 3 AM.

IK look cool like Titans, but don't cost near as much. Hell If my Escalation league ever goes over 2k, I'll prolly pick up a few Knights for my Iron Warriors and a few for my Word Bearers.

 Vector Strike wrote:
Dude, anyone can ally with anyone nowadays. It's like a toga party at 3 AM.

And now I have a burning desire to see a Knight modeled with a toga...

Anyway, it's like Peregrine said, the real problem is that the other armies do not have their own equivalent to the Knight (which is a real crime for Chaos, since there ARE traitor Knights in 40K fluff).

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Dude, anyone can ally with anyone nowadays. It's like a toga party at 3 AM.

And now I have a burning desire to see a Knight modeled with a toga...

Anyway, it's like Peregrine said, the real problem is that the other armies do not have their own equivalent to the Knight (which is a real crime for Chaos, since there ARE traitor Knights in 40K fluff).

Lady Liberty Knight

Her shield is her book and her melta her torch!

 Quickjager wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Vector Strike wrote:
Dude, anyone can ally with anyone nowadays. It's like a toga party at 3 AM.

And now I have a burning desire to see a Knight modeled with a toga...

Anyway, it's like Peregrine said, the real problem is that the other armies do not have their own equivalent to the Knight (which is a real crime for Chaos, since there ARE traitor Knights in 40K fluff).

Lady Liberty Knight

Her shield is her book and her melta her torch!

The Emperor is her shield.

Isn't there actually a Tyranid/Genestealer Cult allied knight in the fluff? House Mortimer I believe? Not too big of a stretch to assume it might assist the Hive Mind/Cult with the domination of a world/solar system/galaxy. The galaxy is a big place- anything is possible.

I’d just rather see people play with forgeworld, than attach a knight to everything.

oftenwrong wrote:
I’d just rather see people play with forgeworld, than attach a knight to everything.

Is there something wrong with Forgeworld? I haven't ever seem anything more out of balance than regular 40k, and it usually helps some armies as well.

Not to mention the sweet Forgeworld knights.

oftenwrong wrote:
I’d just rather see people play with forgeworld, than attach a knight to everything.

Forgeworld is predominantly Imperial units, very little for Xenos.

I tend to agree with several of these points. I play Tau and there is no real Tau equivalent. Our Lord of War options are pretty bad, so it's natural we'd want to look elsewhere.

And if you can't come up with a nice and fluffy reason why Come the Apocalypse allies would work together, then you aren't trying hard enough. Tyranids + an Imperial Knight... The Hive Mind has been able to influence the mind of the pilot by using some sort of parasitic 'Nid brain leech. The initial point of contact caused the pilot to flail around uncontrollably, so the 'Nid force stayed back until he settled down (can't deploy within 12"). Afterwards, the pilot retained a small measure of independence and would occassionally fire some shots off at any 'Nids who got too close (can't move within 6" or test, treated as an enemy unit).

 Kriswall wrote:
I tend to agree with several of these points. I play Tau and there is no real Tau equivalent. Our Lord of War options are pretty bad, so it's natural we'd want to look elsewhere.

And if you can't come up with a nice and fluffy reason why Come the Apocalypse allies would work together, then you aren't trying hard enough. Tyranids + an Imperial Knight... The Hive Mind has been able to influence the mind of the pilot by using some sort of parasitic 'Nid brain leech. The initial point of contact caused the pilot to flail around uncontrollably, so the 'Nid force stayed back until he settled down (can't deploy within 12"). Afterwards, the pilot retained a small measure of independence and would occassionally fire some shots off at any 'Nids who got too close (can't move within 6" or test, treated as an enemy unit).

How about the Mechanicus manages to create an artificial Hive Mind to control minions of the Tyranids? How about the Nids realize the Knight has no meat in him?

bibotot wrote:

 Kriswall wrote:
I tend to agree with several of these points. I play Tau and there is no real Tau equivalent. Our Lord of War options are pretty bad, so it's natural we'd want to look elsewhere.

And if you can't come up with a nice and fluffy reason why Come the Apocalypse allies would work together, then you aren't trying hard enough. Tyranids + an Imperial Knight... The Hive Mind has been able to influence the mind of the pilot by using some sort of parasitic 'Nid brain leech. The initial point of contact caused the pilot to flail around uncontrollably, so the 'Nid force stayed back until he settled down (can't deploy within 12"). Afterwards, the pilot retained a small measure of independence and would occassionally fire some shots off at any 'Nids who got too close (can't move within 6" or test, treated as an enemy unit).

How about the Mechanicus manages to create an artificial Hive Mind to control minions of the Tyranids? How about the Nids realize the Knight has no meat in him?

Forge that Narrative, Brother!

You don't have to go out of your way to ally Imperal Knights with Tyranids, as the fluff for Knight Worlds is that Knights are used to herd and protect mega-fauna, meat animals raised to feed nearby Forge Worlds. A Nid army with Knights is literally a bunch of sheep herders and their flock, their very very mediocre flock.

SJ

Come the apocalypse for Knights also doesent seem like such a setback either since most of your "friendly" units wouldn't want to stand 6 inches from it anyways... Wait till i field my Chaos and Loyalist BFF Marines.

bibotot wrote:


If you are playing Unbound, then that is fine. I am talking about people bringing Not Before Apocalypse alliance into Tournaments which clearly only allows Combined Arms Detachment.

Wait a minute. You're complaining about tournament-hammer? Man, competitive tournaments are supposed to be like this.

On this topic, just played a 1500pt game against a Dark Eldar army with an allied Imperial Knight. That was weird

Hellhounds baked most of the DE army by themselves (No Escape is...quite brutal), meltaguns took 5HP off the Knight and a heavy bolter to the back finished the Knight on turn 5.

 Psienesis wrote:

oftenwrong wrote:
I’d just rather see people play with forgeworld, than attach a knight to everything.

Forgeworld is predominantly Imperial units, very little for Xenos.

There's quite a lot of Xenos stuff, and a lot of the Imperial stuff is Horus Heresy related or simply alternate models (e.g. MkIII Iron Armour, Mars Alpha pattern Leman Russ, etc). Eldar, Orks, Necrons, and Tau have some excellent FW stuff (some of the Tau stuff even got snaked from FW and put in the 4E Tau book) and I believe most even have FW-specific army lists. Not all Xenos get lots of stuff, but not all Imperial factions do either.

 Alpharius wrote:
Er, OK?

I'm not totally up on the rules of 40K as of 7th edition, but...

Can't anyone bring anything under the "Unbound" stipulation?

Sure it may not be too Fluffy, but this is what GW is convinced we were all looking for?

It doesnt even have to be unbound. You can take as many allied armies as you want, each of which then interacts with every other army according to the Ally matrix. Come the apoc simply restricts their use even further.

Single CAD tournaments are lacking something then, mainly that the other detachments and formations are needed to get other armies to play how the authors intended. It overly benefits certain armies, i./e. all the non-7th ed ones....

We played a game against 4 knights... allied with iron hands..

honestly I find them more troublesome than titans because of the 3+ and 4+ invul saves.

But it also seems they are the eggs in one basket problem. one bad move and the entire army topples. they also have trouble getting objective unless they wipe out everything.

well for a start there should be a Knight that has turned to the greater good. Anybody actually heard of it though?

 Dannyrulx wrote:
well for a start there should be a Knight that has turned to the greater good. Anybody actually heard of it though?

There is, but its usually individuals rather then a house.

 Dannyrulx wrote:
well for a start there should be a Knight that has turned to the greater good. Anybody actually heard of it though?

After the Tau almost demolish one of their homeworlds? No. Tau and Knights's relation was pretty grim even in previous edition.