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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 06:09:48
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Could not find a reference in the rulebook to what happens in this case, but given that a flyer is forced to move a set distance-most obviously from "crew stunned", but cant (there are units there for example), what happens?
Does it move the minimum more? the minimum less? is wrecked?
What happens?!
Or in an even more vauge occasion, a flyer that cannot hover is stck in such a position that there is no place at all within 18"-36" he can end his movement at due to a horde of models covering everything. what happens than?
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 06:24:08
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Frightening Flamer of Tzeentch
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It crashes and burns.
Resolve its demise accordingly.
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Aftermath can be calculated.
Dark humor is like food, not everyone gets it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 06:27:04
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Wrecked I think.
See Vehicles/fliers/Zoom
I'd move it as far as there is room and then have it crash there.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 06:42:04
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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That sounds silly.
You move 28" but a blob of green skins is in your way...
What is causing you to crash?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 06:50:49
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Shas'ui with Bonding Knife
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The pilot had a heart attacking, Ork Psykieness, bad luck, Gork and Mork tried to high five you?
The rules are abstracted, you simply got outplayed or made a bad mistake within the context of the rules.
You can premeasure, so just choose to fly over them instead of onto them. No one wants to put an unstable expensive model on top of a bunch of other hand painted models. If you can't put your flyer anywhere but a restricted location, than it is dead.
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2014/11/07 06:54:26
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 07:05:38
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Johnnytorrance wrote:That sounds silly.
You move 28" but a blob of green skins is in your way...
What is causing you to crash?
The rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 07:22:59
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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He's right. It's RAW. If you can't place properly within Min/Max distance, then you're a pile of rubble on the ground. I imagine it's like you're flying over an army, and they all shoot up. No need to roll 6's with that volley. Theres a million ork rounds flying straight to your underbelly.
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DR:80-S++G+M-B---I+Pw40k#10++D+A++++/cWD-R+++T(T)DM+
(Grey Knights 4500+) (Eldar 4000+ Pts) (Tyranids 3000 Pts) (Tau 3000 Pts) (Imperial Guard 3500 Pts) (Doom Eagles 3000 Pts) (Orks 3000+ Pts) (Necrons 2500 Pts) (Daemons 2000) (Sisters of Battle 2000) (2 Imperial Knights) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 07:31:19
Subject: Re:A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Douglas Bader
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So, could someone clarify why, when you are unable to legally move the specific distance required (due to a stunned result setting an exact distance), you are required to stop short of the point instead of moving past it?
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 07:33:02
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Stealthy Space Wolves Scout
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I'm going to go with... "Not a perfect rule-set"
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DR:80-S++G+M-B---I+Pw40k#10++D+A++++/cWD-R+++T(T)DM+
(Grey Knights 4500+) (Eldar 4000+ Pts) (Tyranids 3000 Pts) (Tau 3000 Pts) (Imperial Guard 3500 Pts) (Doom Eagles 3000 Pts) (Orks 3000+ Pts) (Necrons 2500 Pts) (Daemons 2000) (Sisters of Battle 2000) (2 Imperial Knights) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 21:21:32
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Executing Exarch
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Its actually one of the best ways to kill a flyer, stunning it forces it to move 18" (not further) in a straight line. If you can get anything in that area that makes it stops short its gone.
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Rick Priestley said it best:
Bryan always said that if the studio ever had to mix with the manufacturing and sales part of the business it would destroy the studio. And I have to say – he wasn’t wrong there! The modern studio isn’t a studio in the same way; it isn’t a collection of artists and creatives sharing ideas and driving each other on. It’s become the promotions department of a toy company – things move on!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/07 22:10:04
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Lieutenant Colonel
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yeah, since a lot of things like manuvering, mid air collisions and so on are not taken into account, you have to be a bit abstract about it....
just picture that scene in indiana jones where sean connery makes all the birds fly up and into the engine of the plane...
Now picture it with grots or something.
but yes, if you cant move as you are required to, you crash and burn, you made a mistake, or your opponent madee a good move to make this happen
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/08 02:40:08
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Douglas Bader
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Ravenous D wrote:Its actually one of the best ways to kill a flyer, stunning it forces it to move 18" (not further) in a straight line. If you can get anything in that area that makes it stops short its gone.
But why do you stop short instead of continuing past the obstruction and placing the model on the far side?
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There is no such thing as a hobby without politics. "Leave politics at the door" is itself a political statement, an endorsement of the status quo and an attempt to silence dissenting voices. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/08 02:49:47
Subject: Re:A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Consider this tidbit
And this
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/08 02:51:10
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/08 04:36:20
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Loyal Necron Lychguard
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Finally, a use case for that clause. Good find, col impact.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/08 04:36:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/10 19:53:06
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Peregrine wrote: Ravenous D wrote:Its actually one of the best ways to kill a flyer, stunning it forces it to move 18" (not further) in a straight line. If you can get anything in that area that makes it stops short its gone.
But why do you stop short instead of continuing past the obstruction and placing the model on the far side?
The rules are abstract. If you need a fluff justification, use your imagination.
Talar, trying to bring his vehicle under control after taking damage on the port nacelle, dives to pick up speed. As he follows the grounds contours, he noticed a horde of orks ahead. Too low to avoid their small arms fire by [ BS hit on 6 rule], he
1) pulls up trying to get to a safe distance... Turn to page 83: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he plummets to his death.
2) dives at them, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 84: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he slams into the ground and blacks out as a huge choppa comes down.
3) continues on, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 85: The nacelle, already damaged, explodes as the foolish pilot of the too low craft decides to fly directly into the path of the orks fire. The wreckage falls harmlessly around the orks, who enjoy the impromptu BBQ.
If you don't have a nacelle and want the crew to be shaken, you blacked out as you bind the wound in your neck from a small piece of shrapnel or close your eyes in prayer to the Emprah in a moment of thanks for avoiding death and crash for that reason instead.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/10 20:14:30
Subject: Re:A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Fresh-Faced New User
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In the Flyer section:
"If a Zooming Flyer is forced to move less than 18" in its own Movement phase, it is automatically Wrecked."
So it is strictly RAW. If you use the skimmer rule that you move less but you move less than 18" you are wrecked.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/10 20:16:58
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote: Peregrine wrote: Ravenous D wrote:Its actually one of the best ways to kill a flyer, stunning it forces it to move 18" (not further) in a straight line. If you can get anything in that area that makes it stops short its gone.
But why do you stop short instead of continuing past the obstruction and placing the model on the far side?
The rules are abstract. If you need a fluff justification, use your imagination.
Talar, trying to bring his vehicle under control after taking damage on the port nacelle, dives to pick up speed. As he follows the grounds contours, he noticed a horde of orks ahead. Too low to avoid their small arms fire by [ BS hit on 6 rule], he
1) pulls up trying to get to a safe distance... Turn to page 83: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he plummets to his death.
2) dives at them, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 84: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he slams into the ground and blacks out as a huge choppa comes down.
3) continues on, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 85: The nacelle, already damaged, explodes as the foolish pilot of the too low craft decides to fly directly into the path of the orks fire. The wreckage falls harmlessly around the orks, who enjoy the impromptu BBQ.
If you don't have a nacelle and want the crew to be shaken, you blacked out as you bind the wound in your neck from a small piece of shrapnel or close your eyes in prayer to the Emprah in a moment of thanks for avoiding death and crash for that reason instead.
You apply the rules.
And this
And if you still somehow wind up short of 18" then you apply
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/10 20:25:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/10 21:15:48
Subject: Re:A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Not sure why you quoted my fluff explanation with a RAW post, but OK. I'm just supplying fluff explanations for RAW, such as why a 40k advanced machine gun fires... 3 rounds. "It's not three, it's a slew of which 3 are not guaranteed stopped by intervening terrain or ducked helmets. That's what cover/armour saves are for. The cover save can actually represent someone from being killed because they tripped on loose rubble too, or a brick falling from above and deflecting the bullet, etc. Forge the Narrative!
For RAW fascists though, "Can" and "must" are different words, so no love there anyway. Not an argument I'm making.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/12 18:59:52
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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The Hive Mind
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col_impact wrote:RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote: Peregrine wrote: Ravenous D wrote:Its actually one of the best ways to kill a flyer, stunning it forces it to move 18" (not further) in a straight line. If you can get anything in that area that makes it stops short its gone.
But why do you stop short instead of continuing past the obstruction and placing the model on the far side?
The rules are abstract. If you need a fluff justification, use your imagination.
Talar, trying to bring his vehicle under control after taking damage on the port nacelle, dives to pick up speed. As he follows the grounds contours, he noticed a horde of orks ahead. Too low to avoid their small arms fire by [ BS hit on 6 rule], he
1) pulls up trying to get to a safe distance... Turn to page 83: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he plummets to his death.
2) dives at them, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 84: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he slams into the ground and blacks out as a huge choppa comes down.
3) continues on, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 85: The nacelle, already damaged, explodes as the foolish pilot of the too low craft decides to fly directly into the path of the orks fire. The wreckage falls harmlessly around the orks, who enjoy the impromptu BBQ.
If you don't have a nacelle and want the crew to be shaken, you blacked out as you bind the wound in your neck from a small piece of shrapnel or close your eyes in prayer to the Emprah in a moment of thanks for avoiding death and crash for that reason instead.
You apply the rules.
And this
And if you still somehow wind up short of 18" then you apply
Incorrect.
You have two "if a X is forced to end it's movement..." When talking about Zooming Flyers, one is more specific than the other.
It's wrecked - you have no permission to "slide" off.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/12 20:20:40
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:col_impact wrote:RAWRAIrobblerobble wrote: Peregrine wrote: Ravenous D wrote:Its actually one of the best ways to kill a flyer, stunning it forces it to move 18" (not further) in a straight line. If you can get anything in that area that makes it stops short its gone.
But why do you stop short instead of continuing past the obstruction and placing the model on the far side?
The rules are abstract. If you need a fluff justification, use your imagination.
Talar, trying to bring his vehicle under control after taking damage on the port nacelle, dives to pick up speed. As he follows the grounds contours, he noticed a horde of orks ahead. Too low to avoid their small arms fire by [ BS hit on 6 rule], he
1) pulls up trying to get to a safe distance... Turn to page 83: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he plummets to his death.
2) dives at them, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 84: The nacelle, already damaged, gives out, the engines stall and he slams into the ground and blacks out as a huge choppa comes down.
3) continues on, trying to make it past.... Turn to page 85: The nacelle, already damaged, explodes as the foolish pilot of the too low craft decides to fly directly into the path of the orks fire. The wreckage falls harmlessly around the orks, who enjoy the impromptu BBQ.
If you don't have a nacelle and want the crew to be shaken, you blacked out as you bind the wound in your neck from a small piece of shrapnel or close your eyes in prayer to the Emprah in a moment of thanks for avoiding death and crash for that reason instead.
You apply the rules.
And this
And if you still somehow wind up short of 18" then you apply
Incorrect.
You have two "if a X is forced to end it's movement..." When talking about Zooming Flyers, one is more specific than the other.
It's wrecked - you have no permission to "slide" off.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/13 16:40:01
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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At BoomWolf and all...
This [VIDEO] battle report contains this exact situation where my dakkajet fell prey to this sad sad rule. Check it out... Green tide vs Iyanden
http://youtu.be/cPPQkS3U_uk Automatically Appended Next Post: For those of you who don't care to watch...
Yes... the flier was wrecked as a result of being stunned.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2014/11/13 16:41:57
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/13 18:28:33
Subject: Re:A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Warplord Titan Princeps of Tzeentch
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Damn eldar trickery
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can neither confirm nor deny I lost track of what I've got right now. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/13 18:44:07
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Rampaging Carnifex
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It makes sense... the flyer is making a strafing run and suddenly he can't turn thus not being able to pull out of the dive... boom.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 00:26:14
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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The Hive Mind
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col_impact wrote:rigeld2 wrote:Incorrect.
You have two "if a X is forced to end it's movement..." When talking about Zooming Flyers, one is more specific than the other.
It's wrecked - you have no permission to "slide" off.
Sure, if you want to ignore advanced vs basic, that's cool.
But it's not how the rules actually work, however.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 00:53:17
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:col_impact wrote:rigeld2 wrote:Incorrect.
You have two "if a X is forced to end it's movement..." When talking about Zooming Flyers, one is more specific than the other.
It's wrecked - you have no permission to "slide" off.
Sure, if you want to ignore advanced vs basic, that's cool.
But it's not how the rules actually work, however.
We use sequencing when we find that two or more rules are to be resolved at the same time, and that is directly per the rules.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2014/11/14 00:55:09
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 01:38:23
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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They do t resolve at the same time, as they conflict. You can only resolve one.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 01:47:56
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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They both trigger at end of movement. As the active player you resolve them in the order you choose. The Sequencing rule directly handles cases like this one.
You can't invoke Basic versus Advanced anyway since both rules in question are being called at the level of Zooming Flyers.
And, they don't actually conflict. Each of those checks happen each time the flyer moves.
The rules are basically saying
At time X do Y if Z is true.
At time X do A if B is true.
Which is two separate triggers happening at the same time
For there to be a conflict the rules would have to say
At time X do Y if Z is true.
At time X do A if Z is true.
So we have two triggers happening at the same time for different reasons. We use the sequencing rules to resolve their simultaneity. The Sequencing rule directly allows for this.
Edit: Let's go into more detail as to what is actually happening. The resolution is as follows.
FLYERS AND OTHER MODELS
Zooming Flyer
Zooming Flyer
Moving Skimmers
So basically I move 18" and I am forced to place the zooming flyer on top of some enemy models. The move as skimmer rule is triggered at the Zooming flyer level and I move the minimum distance so that no models are left underneath it, either flying forward past the problem or flying backwards to trigger the move less than 18" rule. I don't really have a choice I must take the path of minimum distance. If the minimum distance move sent the zooming flyer backward and it resolves as flying less than 18" then it is wrecked. If the minimum distance sends me forward then I do not wreck since I flew more than 18".
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This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2014/11/14 02:47:54
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 02:33:42
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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The Hive Mind
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col_impact wrote:
They both trigger at end of movement. As the active player you resolve them in the order you choose. The Sequencing rule directly handles cases like this one.
You can't invoke Basic versus Advanced anyway since both rules in question are being called at the level of Zooming Flyers.
No, they aren't. One is a Skimmer rule, one is a Zooming Flyer rule. Which one is more specific to Zooming Flyers?
And they're definitely conflicting - if you resolve one, you can't resolve the other. This is because if you "slide", you weren't forced to end your move short. If you crash, you weren't forced to end your your move (because you've finished it).
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 02:41:16
Subject: A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:col_impact wrote:
They both trigger at end of movement. As the active player you resolve them in the order you choose. The Sequencing rule directly handles cases like this one.
You can't invoke Basic versus Advanced anyway since both rules in question are being called at the level of Zooming Flyers.
No, they aren't. One is a Skimmer rule, one is a Zooming Flyer rule. Which one is more specific to Zooming Flyers?
And they're definitely conflicting - if you resolve one, you can't resolve the other. This is because if you "slide", you weren't forced to end your move short. If you crash, you weren't forced to end your your move (because you've finished it).
You are getting confused. See my edited post above.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2014/11/14 04:58:12
Subject: Re:A flyer must move a set distance, but cant?
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Krazed Killa Kan
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