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Hello

I've seen people play and been reading about different armies. But just looking at an army list doesn't tell me the playstyle of the army since i haven't played a game yet.
Chaos Space Marines with possible Daemon allies and Blood Angels have me most intrigued. I know some things can be hard to answer since Blood Angels are getting a new codex soon, but would really value your input anyway

Chaos Space Marines seems to me to have a lot of options depending on which god you worship and the ability to summon Daemons to further boost your army is tempting. They seems to have a strong choice in that Daemon hq (Demon prince i think it's called ) and the rest of the slots seem to have strong units depending on what you want to do. Is Chaos a good army to build if you want a strong (durable) army with a lot of diversity? And what about psykers, where on the tier list are chaos in regards to that?

Blood Angels seems to me to be a more specialized army in that they usually are assault oriented, but Mephiston and the librarian dreadnaughts seems so awesome. I like dreadnaughts and psykers but are worried that the army are more of a one trick pony.
How are blood angels playstyle compared to Chaos Space Marines and do the allied rules make them more open to different plastyles than the Chaos Space Marine? The mobility and the option to deep strike do seem great but is that their only real strength?

I'm not big on money, so choosing an army that can last me a long time before branching out to much would be ideal and that's where i need you help so i don't waste money without knowing all the facts.

I'm counting on loosing a lot in the beginning but i'm a quick study and will learn from my mistakes, but i do like resilient units, and i'm hoping that having those will help me survive longer so i can learn faster

How would you compare those two armies and why would you pick one over the other? Based on numbers and not on fluff or models, because i like both their fluff and can see the awesomeness in both armies models.

Thank you for reading and hopefully you can answer all, or just some, of the questions i have

I have recently got back into warhammer 40k and I pulled my blood angels out. Nothing really changed with them since the last time I played. Sadly I'd have to say CSM for the reason that they have a wide option of units and goodies they can take whereas blood angels are very one sided. I'd say CSM are easier on the wallet too seeing as you don't have to burn a hole in your wallet buying dreadnoughts, vehicles(tanks), death company or not to mention the mass amount of assault troops you have to field just to have some meat shields. Mephiston being the monster he is lacks elements to keep him alive. Mephiston was my favorite character but I found myself fielding astorath the grim more often. Blood angels deep striking is amazing but the not assaulting after you get them in really hurts when you lose more than half the squad by your next turn. On top of all of this blood angels lost the ability to use their own psykic abilities so their limited to the genaric ones. This is just my own experience with the army and if you want to wait for the long waited update this army deserves then that's awesome too! Just hope this helps you and have fun playing the game!

CSM is versatile, but you have to be really careful.

They have one of the weaker codexes out there at the moment, which doesn't mean they're all bad, it means that the really super competitive list is just one thing (Heldrakes, Obliterators, Rhinos full of CSMs, Nurglified bikers, Daemon Prince HQ). A majority of the stuff in the codex is totally okay if you outfit it correctly, but there are a handful of units that are just abysmal every way you slice it (Thousand Sons, Mutilators, Defiler)

So I would definitely advise Chaos, as the variety and daemon allies is great, but do your homework before you build a kit. No sense building a footslogging daemon prince with nothing in his hands when you could stick wings on him and give him The Black Mace.

Okay, was as i thought. Chaos being more versatile. How are chaos on psykers? about average?

And blood angels will still be an aggressive assault army even if you use allies? Thinking yes since a lot of their troops seem geared for that.

Will be missing those librarian dreads, thats for sure but the rest i'm not so sure i will miss

zaible wrote:
Okay, was as i thought. Chaos being more versatile. How are chaos on psykers? about average?

And blood angels will still be an aggressive assault army even if you use allies? Thinking yes since a lot of their troops seem geared for that.

Will be missing those librarian dreads, thats for sure but the rest i'm not so sure i will miss

On Psykers, Chaos can get Ahriman, who is the highest Possible Mastery Level (4). They can also get normal Sorcerors or Daemon Princes who can also be Psykers of ranks 1-3. The catch is that when a Sorceror takes a Mark (DPs have to have a Godly affliliation) they must roll 1 power on that God's table, and no more than half their powers from that in total. So while you could get a potential 3 powers, 1 has to be from Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch. If you get a duff power you only have 1 chance to get a good one, and that leaves only 1 power for Divination or whatever.
Ahriman and Sorcerors with Mark of Tzeentch also unlock Thousand Sons as Troops, who have an Aspiring Sorcerer as a Sergeant, who is Mastery Level 1. However, he must take his power from Tzeentch.


Alone, you can get a potential 13 Warp Charge from units (4 from Ahriman, 3 from Sorcoror or DP, 6 from TSons) within a single combined Arms detachment. However, allied Daemons really give You a boost. Fateweaver and Daemon Factories can win you games (although you'll soon run out of friends to play with) but have many other options including psyker and non-psyker lists.


Blood Angels are getting a new update so it's had to say. But overall, their ally options far outclass anything the Chaos Side could ever get. Want Psykers out the bejeebus? Grey Knights get a Warp Charge per unit and their Level 3 Librarians are dirty dirty cheap. Space Marines give you Tiguirius for Divination, one of the best psykers in the game, along with options for regenerating vehicles and ultratough characters with Iron Hands allies. Dark Angels can net you Anti-Chaos Terminators in the form of Deathwing Knights, alongside Ravenwing Black Knights who have speed and can bring high-volume Plasma fire to the enemy turn 1. Space Wolves give you those massive flyers to load out to 8 Terminators in, as well as powerful Devastator squads and more Dreads you can load in a Stormraven (Murderfang being deployed via Assauly Vehicle? Thank you very much!). You have Assassins for just fething things up. Culexus rip the heart out of psyker armies like the Daemon Factory and are generally badass anyway. Vindicares are point and click to remove a model. Imperial Knights for Superheavies without the Lords of War debate, and f you permit LoW you now have room for a Baneblade or titan. Imperial Guard can complement your fast moving assault squads and Death Company with blisstering static firepower from a Pask-Punisher or Wyvern Squadron, or massive Objective Secured troops units that can cover huge portions of the board (in contrast to your small 5-10 man squads of MEQ) for cheap (opposed to 30 man Death Company units).

Put simply, Blood Angels alone are weak. But their strength lie in their potential. They have a massive pool of allies and possible combinations for any situation and they are getting a new codex soon. Chaos are stuck with their own and the Daemon Codex for thw foreseeable future.

*ahem* IA 13 *ahem*

 techsoldaten wrote:
*ahem* IA 13 *ahem*

I try to stick to Codexes only when answering these types of questions as some groups still don't allowing IA or FW units, and I don't to say "X unit from Imperial Armour 13 is gold! Use it and win!" And then one of three things happen.
1) The OP uses it, wins too much, people scream cheese and then it gets looked down on or the OP looses players as they no longer want to play against him.
2) His group says no and he accuses them of being close-minded, unwilling to give him fair does or something to that effect. He loses friends and players.
3) The group says no, he goes away dissappointed but continues to play. He begins to lose and thinks "If only I had..." and then either becomes alienated from the group or disillusioned with the army and doesn't want to play anymore, or play a different army. He's now wasted money on the army, plus any IA units or books he buys in his hopefulness.


When it comes to FW and IA in situations like this, the OP should do the following.

1) Post topic like this
2) Ask group about their opinions on FW and IA in general and if it would be okay if he were inclined.
3) THEN ask Dakka or Warseer or whatever about the value and usefulness of IA to their chosen path.
4) Make their decision based on the entirety of information

Here is something to consider: How much are you into the actual hobby side of things? CSM can offer you loads of conversion potential. While I'm not that impressed with the inherent Psychic abilities of the codex, Daemon Allies will bring a ton to the table. Nobody likes 2+ cover save Daemon Princes of Nurgle with 3+ Armor Saves and Gifts just tanking the full firepower of an Astra Militarum army and not dying. If you aren't looking to make too many friends, bring 2

I've always wanted to start a Blood Angels army, Librarian and Death Company Dreads being a huge appeal. Not to mention deep striking Land Raiders.

zaible wrote:
Hello

I've seen people play and been reading about different armies. But just looking at an army list doesn't tell me the playstyle of the army since i haven't played a game yet.
Chaos Space Marines with possible Daemon allies and Blood Angels have me most intrigued. I know some things can be hard to answer since Blood Angels are getting a new codex soon, but would really value your input anyway

Chaos Space Marines seems to me to have a lot of options depending on which god you worship and the ability to summon Daemons to further boost your army is tempting. They seems to have a strong choice in that Daemon hq (Demon prince i think it's called ) and the rest of the slots seem to have strong units depending on what you want to do. Is Chaos a good army to build if you want a strong (durable) army with a lot of diversity? And what about psykers, where on the tier list are chaos in regards to that?

Blood Angels seems to me to be a more specialized army in that they usually are assault oriented, but Mephiston and the librarian dreadnaughts seems so awesome. I like dreadnaughts and psykers but are worried that the army are more of a one trick pony.
How are blood angels playstyle compared to Chaos Space Marines and do the allied rules make them more open to different plastyles than the Chaos Space Marine? The mobility and the option to deep strike do seem great but is that their only real strength?

I'm not big on money, so choosing an army that can last me a long time before branching out to much would be ideal and that's where i need you help so i don't waste money without knowing all the facts.

I'm counting on loosing a lot in the beginning but i'm a quick study and will learn from my mistakes, but i do like resilient units, and i'm hoping that having those will help me survive longer so i can learn faster

How would you compare those two armies and why would you pick one over the other? Based on numbers and not on fluff or models, because i like both their fluff and can see the awesomeness in both armies models.

Thank you for reading and hopefully you can answer all, or just some, of the questions i have

Well...both have a hard time being "first tier" in Tourney settings, but Blood Angels have a Codex coming out....so they might get a boost. Both should be fun to paint, and both should be fun to play. So do you like Cowboys? (Imperium) or the Indians (Chaos)? Personally If I was going to build a second army, it would be Chaos Marines.

I think it all boils down to what i think would intimidate my opponent more. A handfull of dreadnaughts or a couple of daemon princes. Leaning towards daemon princes, but that's just based on looks and not stats.

Is there any difference between the Chaos Daemons Daemon Prince and the Chaos Space Marines Daemon Prince, because i true love the model from Chaos Daemons

zaible wrote:
Is there any difference between the Chaos Daemons Daemon Prince and the Chaos Space Marines Daemon Prince, because i true love the model from Chaos Daemons

There is a lot of differences in the options they can buy and Codex: Daemons' prince doesn't have to roll on their gods psychic lore at all.

Blood angels are recieving a new codex soon. As far as the new dexes go, we can hope to see another fine one.

I meant if i use the chaos space marine daemon prince can i use the model from chaos daemons ? They look different but seem to be the same size.

zaible wrote:
I meant if i use the chaos space marine daemon prince can i use the model from chaos daemons ? They look different but seem to be the same size.

They use the same exact model

Oh okay. was just looking at games-workshop and saw two different models/pictures

There are a number of Daemon Prince models. There is a metal/finecast Chaos Space Marine Daemon Prince which clearly wears mutated Power Armour and is useful most for CSM Princes with PA, but there's no reason you can't use it in CD. The plastic Daemon Prince has 3 different Torsos, one of which has PA and there are shoulder pads to go with it, making it great for marking out a CSM DP (especially the PA upgrade) but no reason you can't use it for DP. There are also a number of weapons in the kit that are great for modelling CSM Artifacts: a sword for The Murder Sword and a large battle axe for the Axe of Blind Fury.

zaible wrote:
I think it all boils down to what i think would intimidate my opponent more. A handfull of dreadnaughts or a couple of daemon princes. Leaning towards daemon princes, but that's just based on looks and not stats.

Is there any difference between the Chaos Daemons Daemon Prince and the Chaos Space Marines Daemon Prince, because i true love the model from Chaos Daemons

Well, by that standard I'd say Chaos all the way! And the Dark Vengence is a good start to a Chaos force.

Chaos is a great starting army, simply because their troops can do anything. You get all the options. psykers, monsters, vehicles, walkers, elite shooting/melee and more. CSM is very flexible, which is great for a new player.

I'd go for CSM, but BA have a new dex coming out soon, which may appeal to you.

Death to the False Emperor!

I would go for BA, their new dex has a far better chance of not being under powered, compared to CSM.

Part of the pleasure of the game is to be able to field the stuff you want to play without automatically losing.

I would recommend to wait for the Codex update.Better whait ,then be sorry (and waste your money).