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Hey all,

I've been thinking of starting up a W40K army for a while now and today I decided to take the plunge and get some units. However, I am having doubts about starting with Necrons (the army I've ben wanting to start for a while) and I've now seen the Space Wolves army, which I also like.

Necrons seem very powerful with their weapons, they can rip into vehicles from a distance but they aren't very durable from what I've read. They're also quite samey, but that's not a huge problem for me. I also like that they are easy to assemble and paint, and they look pretty awesome.

Space Wolves on the other hand are pretty strong, durable and still look awesome. They look a little harder to paint, but have a wide range of options to choose from in terms of building up the army. They are also a bit more expensive.

Considering I'm new to the rules and I'm not a fantastic painter, does anyone have any advice on which army to go for? I'm still swinging towards Necrons, but some more professional advice to push me the rest of the way would be very helpful

Thank you! Hopefully I can grab some units and become a more active poster here

Necrons. Best army to start a collection with hands down.

All the special units (Deathmark/Immortals, Praets/Lych) come in combo kits, and you can easily use extra Warrior legs/torsos to get both the units in the combo kit. I particularly like assembling Deathmarks and using Warrior bits to get myself Immortals as well.

Additionally, no other army comes with free bonus units in their kits. Warriors come with the awesome Scarabs. The Barge comes with a free Overlord. (Don't glue the gun or the overlord in that kit, and you can freely swap the vehicle from one arrangement to the other.)

Also, Necrons are almost absurdly durable and their weaponry is best at close range (but not in hand to hand combat) so their gameplay pattern tends to be a fun game of how close do you feel like getting to maximize your damage.

However, definitely pick up a codex used on the cheap. A new codex will hit soon. Warriors, Overlords+barges, Ghost Arcs, and Deathmark/Immortals boxes are most probably really safe buys for the new codex, they likely won't see much changes.

I'd vote for Necron as well. For a new player it is a really nice army to get into playing. It's also great to get into painting, since you can speedpaint them pretty easy to have a fully painted, good looking army. And if you get better and interested you can still do amazing things with them, especially the vehicles.

The only thing you should keep in mind is that some units are not considered too usable. Flayed ones are outright horrible at the moment. Praetorians and Lychguard can be used to some effect, but most players do not use them.

You're better off with the above mentioned things. Get a battleforce or two, annihilation barges/catacomb command barges, Immortal/Deathmark packs and maybe a Night Scythe or two. That would be a strong army which is fun to begin with.

Necrons. Whoever told you they aren't durable is an idiot. A squad of warriors and a ghost arc is one of the durable troop choices in troops foc slot in 40k.

The other thing about Necrons is that you can play however youwant . They have the best units in the game. Wraiths are a steal. A royal court is the best h2h unit in 40k. Warriors can destroy vehicles with the basic gun. Ctan shards are bits of a god ffs. Destroyers are jump infantry with heavy weaponry. Death rays can wipe out squads of invisible units in a single shot.

For ease of painting, its hard to beat Necrons. They're a good army to get you into the hobby aspect of the game , for sure. Also they have a really nice codex, but you should know they are likely going to get a new codex in the coming months.

Ffyllotek wrote:

The other thing about Necrons is that you can play however you want.

As long as that includes Fliers, a Barge Overlord, Wraiths, and Ghost Arks. As someone mentioned above, a good bit of their current book is seen as unusable. Most of the Elites and Fast Attack, bar Deathmarks, are outshined by standard troops or Wraiths. And Heavy Supports are usually outshined by A-barges. Sure, you CAN play however you want, but considering most things in their book are the same, you'll end up spending more points on something overall worse, and you would be handicapping yourself.

 krodarklorr wrote:

Ffyllotek wrote:

The other thing about Necrons is that you can play however you want.

As long as that includes Fliers, a Barge Overlord, Wraiths, and Ghost Arks. As someone mentioned above, a good bit of their current book is seen as unusable. Most of the Elites and Fast Attack, bar Deathmarks, are outshined by standard troops or Wraiths. And Heavy Supports are usually outshined by A-barges. Sure, you CAN play however you want, but considering most things in their book are the same, you'll end up spending more points on something overall worse, and you would be handicapping yourself.

To be honest, I have had a whole, whole lot of luck in competitive games running Monoliths, a Royal Court, a Truarch Stalker, and Warrior spam....probably even more so than with the list of "usual suspects" (Wraiths, ABs, GAs, CCBs, and NSs). I don't know if that speaks more to my playstyle, my local meta, or what, but IME there are plenty of builds in that codex that can work for you.

 jasper76 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Ffyllotek wrote:

The other thing about Necrons is that you can play however you want.

As long as that includes Fliers, a Barge Overlord, Wraiths, and Ghost Arks. As someone mentioned above, a good bit of their current book is seen as unusable. Most of the Elites and Fast Attack, bar Deathmarks, are outshined by standard troops or Wraiths. And Heavy Supports are usually outshined by A-barges. Sure, you CAN play however you want, but considering most things in their book are the same, you'll end up spending more points on something overall worse, and you would be handicapping yourself.

Meh...to be honest, I have had a whole, whole lot of luck in competitive games running Monoliths, a Royal Court, a Truarch Stalker, and Warrior spam....probably even more so than with the list of "usual suspects" (Wraiths, ABs, GAs, CCBs, and NSs). I don't know if that speaks more to my playstyle, my local meta, or what, but IME there are plenty of builds in that codex that can work for you.

But...but then I'd have to THINK instead of parroting the internet! You can't win tournaments without net lists you liar.

Although to be honest I forgot Lychguard and Praets were units in their own right until recently. I just use that box as Crypteks and Lords, you can make a lot of different Cryptek weapons using the bits in that box.

Yeah, I have never had any luck with Lychguard. I don't have any Praetorians, so I can't speak to that. And I've never had any kind of luck with Flayed Ones either...even though I run them once in a while in casual games because I like the models.

Hopefully these "least optimals" will get some love in the next codex.

 jasper76 wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

Ffyllotek wrote:

The other thing about Necrons is that you can play however you want.

As long as that includes Fliers, a Barge Overlord, Wraiths, and Ghost Arks. As someone mentioned above, a good bit of their current book is seen as unusable. Most of the Elites and Fast Attack, bar Deathmarks, are outshined by standard troops or Wraiths. And Heavy Supports are usually outshined by A-barges. Sure, you CAN play however you want, but considering most things in their book are the same, you'll end up spending more points on something overall worse, and you would be handicapping yourself.

To be honest, I have had a whole, whole lot of luck in competitive games running Monoliths, a Royal Court, a Truarch Stalker, and Warrior spam....probably even more so than with the list of "usual suspects" (Wraiths, ABs, GAs, CCBs, and NSs). I don't know if that speaks more to my playstyle, my local meta, or what, but IME there are plenty of builds in that codex that can work for you.

Well, in my personal opinion, I love the Triarch Stalker, Warriors are great, and I love most of the Harbringers from the Royal Court. It's just, Monoliths are too expensive and don't seem to do much from my experiences. Then everything else is over-costed for what it does. At least half of the codex people don't use. I use full squads of Immortals with Night Scythes, Deathmarks, A Triarch Stalker, Doom Scythe, full warrior squads in ghost arks, ext. But even then, it still leaves A LOT of the book out.

I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

zeromaeus wrote:
I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

Agreed....I really like the Flayed Ones models too (ymmv), and they're easy to convert out of warriors. They gave the worst rules to my favorite looking units in the product line!

 jasper76 wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

Agreed....I really like the Flayed Ones models too (ymmv), and they're easy to convert out of warriors. They gave the worst rules to my favorite looking units in the product line!

Yeah, Flayed Ones are cool, and there's a lot they could do with them. And Lychguard, man, I just wish they were useful. A CC unit in a non-CC army, that is our equivalent to a terminator, but can't kill terminators, and can hardly kill cheap infantry. Yeah, awesome sauce.

Yep...and you can't even choose to use that invul deflector shield against most incoming fire since you have to use your best save (possible this could have been removed in 7th??)

 jasper76 wrote:
Yep...and you can't even choose to use that invul deflector shield against most incoming fire since you have to use your best save (possible this could have been removed in 7th??)

I think it's stayed the same in 7th, but either way, why would you wanna risk using a 4+ save against anything not AP3 or lower anyway? And the deflection is only 6", so it's not even that great.

I agree. It's been so long since I played with them I forgot it was just 6"

 krodarklorr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

Agreed....I really like the Flayed Ones models too (ymmv), and they're easy to convert out of warriors. They gave the worst rules to my favorite looking units in the product line!

Yeah, Flayed Ones are cool, and there's a lot they could do with them. And Lychguard, man, I just wish they were useful. A CC unit in a non-CC army, that is our equivalent to a terminator, but can't kill terminators, and can hardly kill cheap infantry. Yeah, awesome sauce.

Keep in mind, when they were designed their swords were AP2. And they can totally kill termies with war scythes, they just can't survive any shooting.

I once multi-charged into three vehicles with my Lychguard.
It was awesome

I love my Wolves hands down, wouldn't trade them for any other army. Saying that, if I did start another army I'd definitely, definitely consider Necrons.

The most important thing you need to do is ask yourself, which one am I going to have the most fun with? Don't choose straight away, this is not a cheap hobby to suddenly change your mind about. Instead, give it a week, keep visiting the shop where you saw them or online and see which of them you find yourself reading over the most and then which one you're thinking about the most as you go about your day.

It's more important to have fun than have the best army out there. If you aren't having fun, then it's just not worth the time and effort.

the_scotsman wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

Agreed....I really like the Flayed Ones models too (ymmv), and they're easy to convert out of warriors. They gave the worst rules to my favorite looking units in the product line!

Yeah, Flayed Ones are cool, and there's a lot they could do with them. And Lychguard, man, I just wish they were useful. A CC unit in a non-CC army, that is our equivalent to a terminator, but can't kill terminators, and can hardly kill cheap infantry. Yeah, awesome sauce.

Keep in mind, when they were designed their swords were AP2. And they can totally kill termies with war scythes, they just can't survive any shooting.

Well thats the thing, they're not AP 2 now, and you have to have EITHER survivability or damage, not both. Terminators can have both.

I used to play crons long ago, and now I'm a SW player (eyeing AM for allies).

For me I dropped crons for wolves because of the lack of character. I like the fluff and the idea of superhuman special forces. Crons had almost zero personality(how are they named, barcodes?). But from what you've said it sounds like you should pick up crons. You decide on the criteria, it and looks like crons are ticking more boxes than SW.

jasper76 wrote:Yeah, I have never had any luck with Lychguard. I don't have any Praetorians, so I can't speak to that. And I've never had any kind of luck with Flayed Ones either...even though I run them once in a while in casual games because I like the models.

Hopefully these "least optimals" will get some love in the next codex.

Lychguard do a little better with Anrakyr at the helm - they really do enjoy Furious Charge and Counter-attack, wounding Marines on 2s or getting a bonus attack when charged.

 krodarklorr wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

Agreed....I really like the Flayed Ones models too (ymmv), and they're easy to convert out of warriors. They gave the worst rules to my favorite looking units in the product line!

Yeah, Flayed Ones are cool, and there's a lot they could do with them. And Lychguard, man, I just wish they were useful. A CC unit in a non-CC army, that is our equivalent to a terminator, but can't kill terminators, and can hardly kill cheap infantry. Yeah, awesome sauce.

Keep in mind, when they were designed their swords were AP2. And they can totally kill termies with war scythes, they just can't survive any shooting.

Well thats the thing, they're not AP 2 now, and you have to have EITHER survivability or damage, not both. Terminators can have both.

But Warscythe Lychguard and Terminators have almost identical survivability in most cases.

bolter marine against lychguard: 2/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 x 2/3 (RP) = 4/81

bolter marine against terminator: 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/6 = 2/36 = 1/18

Lychguard are more survivable.

plasma marine against lychguard: 2/3 x 5/6 x 2/3 (RP) = 5/9

plasma marine against terminator: 2/3 x 5/6 x 2/3 = 5/9

They are identical


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ah, maybe you meant SSTH terminators specifically.

Necrons, they will be getting a codex update soonish. Also they still have their battle force which is a good deal/start for an army

Alcibiades wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:

 krodarklorr wrote:

 jasper76 wrote:

zeromaeus wrote:
I'm sad to see Lychguard get no love. They're one of the best looking units in the army.

Agreed....I really like the Flayed Ones models too (ymmv), and they're easy to convert out of warriors. They gave the worst rules to my favorite looking units in the product line!

Yeah, Flayed Ones are cool, and there's a lot they could do with them. And Lychguard, man, I just wish they were useful. A CC unit in a non-CC army, that is our equivalent to a terminator, but can't kill terminators, and can hardly kill cheap infantry. Yeah, awesome sauce.

Keep in mind, when they were designed their swords were AP2. And they can totally kill termies with war scythes, they just can't survive any shooting.

Well thats the thing, they're not AP 2 now, and you have to have EITHER survivability or damage, not both. Terminators can have both.

But Warscythe Lychguard and Terminators have almost identical survivability in most cases.

bolter marine against lychguard: 2/3 x 1/3 x 1/3 x 2/3 (RP) = 4/81

bolter marine against terminator: 2/3 x 1/2 x 1/6 = 2/36 = 1/18

Lychguard are more survivable.

plasma marine against lychguard: 2/3 x 5/6 x 2/3 (RP) = 5/9

plasma marine against terminator: 2/3 x 5/6 x 2/3 = 5/9

They are identical


Automatically Appended Next Post:
ah, maybe you meant SSTH terminators specifically.

But while those tacs are S8AP1, the lyches are S5 Ap3 with just 1 point of init to show for it.

I would advise Necrons, since they are going to be more beginner friendly than SW (IMO).

But try and get a few practice games in with some people who will let you borrow some models, or just watch them in action and see how they play before you decide. Main point of 40k is to enjoy it, pick the army that you like the feel of.

the_scotsman wrote:


But while those tacs are S8AP1, the lyches are S5 Ap3 with just 1 point of init to show for it.

Nah, these are the results for Warscythe Lychguard, so S7 AP1 Armourbane.

Warscythe Lychguard and Tactical Terminators have almost identical durability, assuming that the Lychguard get a chance to make Reanimation Protocols rolls.

Also, I just remembered. You'll get Transcendent C'tan as well, which are absolute monsters to face.

Alcibiades wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


But while those tacs are S8AP1, the lyches are S5 Ap3 with just 1 point of init to show for it.

Nah, these are the results for Warscythe Lychguard, so S7 AP1 Armourbane.

Warscythe Lychguard and Tactical Terminators have almost identical durability, assuming that the Lychguard get a chance to make Reanimation Protocols rolls.

Against small arms fire and low strength attacks maybe. But even the resurrection protocols is not very reliable, even if you invest even more points into them with a lord or overlord carrying an orb. Their 5 toughness doesn't do anything once you hit strength 7 weapons though, and they will be drawing a lot of fire. The math just doesn't work out, especially not at 400 points for a full unit, probably over 500 once you add in the support they would need just to make it to a fight.
There's always going to be some situation where they will excel and do some damage, but you are much better off spending points on almost anything else in the codex.

To the OP, I would vote Necrons as they are the army I started with. Their Crypteks offer a lot of great tools, even attached to minimum warrior units in a Night Scythe. Experimenting around with them is where I have a lot if fun. Just be wary of trying to rely on Gauss weapons and Resurrection Protocols. They will often disappoint you.

 Fafnir13 wrote:


Against small arms fire and low strength attacks maybe. But even the resurrection protocols is not very reliable, even if you invest even more points into them with a lord or overlord carrying an orb. Their 5 toughness doesn't do anything once you hit strength 7 weapons though, and they will be drawing a lot of fire. The math just doesn't work out, especially not at 400 points for a full unit, probably over 500 once you add in the support they would need just to make it to a fight.
There's always going to be some situation where they will excel and do some damage, but you are much better off spending points on almost anything else in the codex.

It's not "maybe," it's true and mathematicaly demonstrable. . Straight Lychguard (and Triarch Praetorians for that matter) are more resilient than tactical terminators against small arms fire and equally so against anything S6+ AP2 or 3, which is to say that they are overall more resilient. (With the caveat that this relies on Reanimation Protocols (which serve as a replacement for an Inv. save) taking effect, so if the whole squad is wiped out this does not apply.)

This is NOT to say that they are necessarily good, just that the position that they are less resilient than tac terminators is false.