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Hello Dakka! Happy Friday everyone.

On page 89 of the BRB it states that Skimmers cannot remove their base unless immobilized. My local store has a few guys that play with skimmers but none of them use the plastic bases. One plays Eldar and has three Wave Serpents and a HQ on a Jetbike that he has no bases for, they just lay on the tabletop. Another plays Space Marines and has a Skimmer that he does the same thing with. He also runs a Dreadnought that has no base so he conveniently gets placed in tight corners of terrain to block line of sight and get copious cover saves that would be impossible had he have had his base on.

I know this game is for fun but it's not very fun to play a game against them and know they are blatantly ignoring the rules and just expecting us to be okay with it. The feeling I get is if I complain or say I don't want to play against those units unless they have their bases on that I'm being a cry baby about it. Am I? What would you do? Should they use the bases? Is this modeling for an advantage to prevent line of sight?

Thanks Dakka.

I try very hard to make sure my army is painted and wysiwyg... the game is way more fun that way imo.. it gets annoying tho when you play someone a few times over a course of a month and there is no model improvement.. I palyed a guy that had a base with no model on it at a tourney.. i said fine what ever.. but then i saw him at another tourney a year later using that same model less base.. ehh..

as for the skimmers w/ no base just request that he hold them in their based position to determine los

for the walker i would "pretend" their was a base for placement purposes

...and this would not make you a cry baby

With the Dreadnought, it's easy enough to get or even make a base for it (Balsa wood, or even thick cardboard), and it's quite important when working out how many models are in B2B contact etc.

With the skimmers, as long as they would be prepared to play it as if it had a base (i.e. if I need to check LoS, they hold it a few inches off the board) then I'd be fine with it - skimmer bases commonly get broken and can be a pain to repair. But if they are just doing it to gain (insignificant) advantages, well, I'd avoid playing against them in the future (not sure I'd be pissed enough to kick up a fuss, if other people want to play them like that it's up to them).

.. Gonna leave this in YMDC for now.

MIght move it later.

broo wrote:
I try very hard to make sure my army is painted and wysiwyg... the game is way more fun that way imo.. it gets annoying tho when you play someone a few times over a course of a month and there is no model improvement.. I palyed a guy that had a base with no model on it at a tourney.. i said fine what ever.. but then i saw him at another tourney a year later using that same model less base.. ehh..

as for the skimmers w/ no base just request that he hold them in their based position to determine los

for the walker i would "pretend" their was a base for placement purposes

...and this would not make you a cry baby

That's a very good point. They have been playing the models without the bases for over 1.5 years now with no sign of improvement which is half of the frustration. I assumed the first time that it was a temporary phase in their army development but considering it's still the exact same now I don't believe there's any willful intention to add the bases.

Happens at my FLGS - flyer bases break all the time, so I'm not too picky about that. But I would give them gak about the Dreadnought base, since it's basically MFA.

For the dreadnought, that would make charging interesting....

Does he claim this is where the base would be when he needs the distance? And then magically forgets where it would be when it inconveniences him?

If it is that big of a deal, spend the $3 and give him a dreadnought base.

That's a good idea. I'll just buy a pack of stands and find an extra dreadnought base. I'll keep them in my hobby bag and when I play vs. them I'll just offer them to use them for our game. Sucks I'll have to spend money to fix their issue but maybe they'll eventually get the point.

I use Wave Serpents, and they're a pain in the butt to put on stands, so I rest them on the table during games.

BUT, I also bring the flying stands, and when the situation calls for it, I place them on the stands. I make my opponent aware that I have the stands in case there's a question.

It's bs that you have to bring your own stuff to make up for someone else's lack of courtesy, but it's a solution and they should be amenable to it in the name of fair play.

I never have LOS issues against skimmers not using their bases. We all know the flying bases suck and break, especially with larger models.

As for a dreadnought or a similar model, yea, it needs a base.

Same as HG for my Tau Hammerheads/Skyrays, I sit them on the table but have the stands if somebody wants me to use them.

I have a tau opponent who has old/used vehicles where the stands have broken off, he runs them sitting on the table. However he told me this beforehand and asked if it was okay. I said it was. He has never gotten replacement stands for them in the several years we've been playing, but I honestly don't mind. In a tournament setting, I would likely ask him to fix them, but for casual play it doesn't matter at all to me.

Your friend's dreadnought should have a base though. That's sort of necessary for combat and measuring.

I agree, the dreadnought is a little overkill. He plays it to his advantage with not having the base. I'll just tell him I don't feel comfortable playing against models that don't have their bases because it makes determining ranges and model placement difficult to understand.

I honestly thought people would have more of a problem with the skimmers not having bases but as a Grey Knight player I don't really have... anything with those annoying clear plastic bases to know that they break and are a pain in the butt to deal with. Thanks everyone, it's made me feel like it's not a big deal and we can always lift the model two inches to determine LoS if there's an issue.

I allow the lack of flying bases, so long as its understood that LOS to them is assumed that they have a base.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
But I would give them gak about the Dreadnought base, since it's basically MFA.

Not necessarily. Dreadnoughts were, for a time, sold without bases.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bojazz wrote:
Your friend's dreadnought should have a base though. That's sort of necessary for combat and measuring.

It's actually not. The walker rules cover what to do if the walker in question doesn't have a base.

I've made more movement errors because a flying base falls out of the model than anything else. Now I have to pick the model up, turn it over, insert the base and put it back on the table. There is zero chance of it being in the exact place again. Without the base I wouldn't have half as many problems during gameplay.

Yea, if I can I try to run them sans base, simply because it just constantly breaks. However I do have them if my opponent wants me to use them.

I will make more durable metal ones soon enough, just not now, got tooo much other stuff to do.

 Quanar wrote:
But if they are just doing it to gain (insignificant) advantages, well, I'd avoid playing against them in the future (not sure I'd be pissed enough to kick up a fuss, if other people want to play them like that it's up to them).

The advantages are not insignificant at all.

It changes everything for a Wave Serpent and a jetbike as in most cases terrain is low and favors non-skimmers.

Either way, it's called modelling for an advantage.


My bases are magnetized. I don't think I'll ever play anything with a regular stem again.

There are many ways to make the standard bases work though so really when people don't use them they're being lazy.

 SharkoutofWata wrote:
I've made more movement errors because a flying base falls out of the model than anything else. Now I have to pick the model up, turn it over, insert the base and put it back on the table. There is zero chance of it being in the exact place again. Without the base I wouldn't have half as many problems during gameplay.

Magnets are your friend.

Or just a small ball of poster-tac in the peg hole.

For people who play Eldar and Tau, I have a trick that my TO from my old FLGS showed me.

You will need a clear circular Large Flying Base, a flat head screw, an appropriate screw driver, a neodymium magnet bigger than the head of the screw, and super glue.

1. Carefully cut the fat and thin pegs off each ends of the flying base stem. If the thin peg is broken, physics saved you some work. Proceed to shave or rough sands so they are flat.

2. Take the stem from a Flying Base with the prepared ends and insert it upside down in the Flying Base.

3. Glue the neodymium magnet to the fat end of the flying base stem now pointing up.

4. Screw the screw into the bottom of you model making sure not to stress the plastic.

4a. If you are terrified about screwing into your model, get some metal siding and attach it to the bottom of your model with super glue (not on paint!).

5. Mount your model on its new magnetic flying base and know that the peg will never break again.

I use these magnetic flying stands. They're the only satisfactory solution I've found for Hammerheads and Wave Serpents - those big heavy tanks easily break the basic stands, but they also have a very annoying tendency to fall off or rotate on home-made magnetic stands.

As for the OP - it is unfortunately all too common to see this, its annoying, but there isn't really anything to be done about it other than constantly making your friends feel bad . Find a 60mm / dreadnaught base from somewhere and donate it. Or go down the route of 'how much cooler would it be if all the skimmers really looked like they were skimming rather than dragging! BTW here are some flying bases'

Or next game show up with a bunch of prone marines which can be 100% obscured behind pretty much any terrain

I was having the problem with the bases on my Land Speeders breaking. So I came up with using the White Plastic Tripod things you get in Pizza Boxes on a 60mm Base. They work good and alow some lever of dynamic poses. With the Three points of contact they only break when you drop them.
So I think the question is would this be ok?

a couple tricks that I have picked up over the years:
if you have a spare 60mm base, bring it to the grocery store with you and make a pass through the cooler section. The OJ Juice Concentrate with metal endcaps are perfectly sized for stand ins, and I'm certain that there are others.
get transparency sheets, cut them into 1 to 2 inch wide lengths and tape the ends together. Voila, skimmer bases.

Thank you for posting this thread - I play with skimmers but lack bases for them. I suppose that I'll have to remedy that now.

 House Griffith wrote:
I use Wave Serpents, and they're a pain in the butt to put on stands, so I rest them on the table during games.

BUT, I also bring the flying stands, and when the situation calls for it, I place them on the stands. I make my opponent aware that I have the stands in case there's a question.

It's bs that you have to bring your own stuff to make up for someone else's lack of courtesy, but it's a solution and they should be amenable to it in the name of fair play.

A better alternative is to drill the hole where the rod goes a bit larger, so the Serpent rests lower down on the rod. Makes it super stable and they never break.

I've used Pringles lids as bases with mounted (painted!) cardboard representation of Venoms before... but no for months on end lol

Well.. my solution was to get rid of the plastic stem, magnets don't really stick to it especially with metal fire prisms.

Then I used a screw a bit larger than the hole in the flying base, cut the head off and screwed it in the hole.

Then I glued a washer on top of the head of the screw, and superglued a 8mm diameter x1mm magnet on it.

All my Wave Serpents and other plastic Falcon variants are on three magnets (one on the hull, one on the screw and one in between.

The Metal Fire Prisms are on 11mm diameters, and they haven't broken yet (on plastic stems the lack of contact surface makes the magnets detach).

I just play without the skimmer bases.
They are horrible and I just don't like them.

Any advantage I get for being shorter also is a disadvantage because I am shorter.

No one has ever complained about it.

-

The dreadnought without a base was just being cheesy though

I no longer use base on skimmers because they just keep falling off. And if I stick the base to the model, carrying is difficult.

About the Dreanought, while I would not call cheating, not having a base is unacceptable. Not only does it alienate you opponent, but also makes it easy for the Dreadnough to topple and fall.

bibotot wrote:
I no longer use base on skimmers because they just keep falling off. And if I stick the base to the model, carrying is difficult.

My trick makes them a nice tight and compact model.

About the Dreanought, while I would not call cheating, not having a base is unacceptable. Not only does it alienate you opponent, but also makes it easy for the Dreadnough to topple and fall.

I had that issue with my old Bjorn on occasion, but he looks better now.

I have an old Bjorn Dreadnaught too that was sold without the base. It's about five pounds of lead (exaggeration) and I had to get a base. Friggin thing kept denting my dining room table. But ten years ago it was perfectly acceptable considering that was how it was purchased.