Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, thinking about starting High Elves. As the title states, would a Sea Guard themed list be viable?

I think sea guard are viable in units ranked at least 4 deep, or hordes of 5 ranks. Otherwise I believe they are outperformed by archers.

I like them, and I currently run a sea guard themed list. they are my core, and are great for more defensive lists. but, like quarrelers and thunderers, its heavily debated

When I play normal games, I have them as a block of 20 as my whole core. I think their awesome. Hope this helps

The archer vs seaguard debate has raged again.
Archers give you 6" more range, seaguard get a magic banner.
Seaguard can be upgraded to have a magic banner.
Seaguard fight in one more range (4 instead of 3), or 5 instead of 4 (for hordes).

IMO, the extra range of the longbow makes the archer the better choice. You're already getting a good number of S3 ASF attacks, and to really take advantage of the spear, you're giving up a lot of S3 shooting (since you have to deploy deep).

I don't rate a 6+ or 5+ save as good enough in either case.

My experience has been that the improved shooting, followed by ASF does more than weaker shooting with a 5+ armor save.

I say take archers.

-Matt

They make a great theme list. Sea Guard, Sea Helms, Skycutters, Great Eagles, Bolt throwers... give them some fun nautical bases, throw in some magic, a block of elites to taste, and you got yourself a stew going on.

It may not be the filthiest thing High Elves can put out, but it's not auto-lose either. Normally when you go with a themed list you're limiting yourself to some degree because themes aren't normally "Take as much of all the bestestest things as possible". ...although some themes are like that.

I'd rate Sea Guard over spearmen and archers, mainly because:

1- They have bows and spears
2- Sea Master allows a reform as you get charged (you forgo shooting reaction though) so you can easily deploy in say, 10x3 formation, get your full allotment of 30 shots, and reform when receiving a charge

Also, Sky Cutters are pretty nifty at outflanking heavy calv and getting off a bolt shot that insta-kills at least 2 guys.

But Sea Guard are possibly the most defensive army you could field, which is fine but if you face a shooty army you're gonna struggle (mainly because every other army with shooting is superior to HElf shooting)

Izural wrote:

2- Sea Master allows a reform as you get charged (you forgo shooting reaction though) so you can easily deploy in say, 10x3 formation, get your full allotment of 30 shots, and reform when receiving a charge

I thought that was the hero level char (Sea Helm), not the unit champion?

Seaguard are entirely viable. I would actually say there are no "bad" options in the HE core. There are bad uses of those options.

The Seaguard bows are very useful for clearing out chaff. With 2-3 seaguard units and your own chaff your opponent will really struggle to move how and where they want to. They can also be used to whittle away at threats while everything is getting into position.

The HE are pretty good in a shooting match if you add in a good Lv4 with the book, some good warmachine hunters, and some dart units to kill characters out of units. Though it is true in a straight up shooting match the HE will usually loose against the WE and Dwarves.

Sea Guard armies are viable, in non-competitive metas.

Blocks have been phased out of fantasy for a good reason, in most armies. Movement control. Anything that can dictate the movement phase gives you a major advantage. M5 with S3 bows just doesn't do that. You'll always be better off with sHelms or Reavers.

BUT, if you want Sea Guard, then I'd say go for it. Archers or Spears are better though as they're cheaper, thus can afford more bodies, or have a 30" range.

Sea Guard are best in a horde but High Elf heavy infantry make better hordes and Archers make better small Core units.