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I know this is a question with no FOR SURE answer but its still fun... so wtf happened to the 2 and 11 Legion... We know they were expunged and that they elude to them in the books and the emperor has acknowledged there creation. But still wtf happened to them... open discussion

They traveled far outside of the galactic rim. The tyranids are actually running from the two legions.

i am so sure

One of them is Sigmar in WHFB (even if that was retconned out).

Edit: When I say retconned, I mean GW retconned out any chance of that being true, they never officially said that he was.

 Rippy wrote:
One of them is Sigmar in WHFB (even if that was retconned out).

Edit: When I say retconned, I mean GW retconned out any chance of that being true, they never officially said that he was.

whats your source?

 chuckz1487 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:
One of them is Sigmar in WHFB (even if that was retconned out).

Edit: When I say retconned, I mean GW retconned out any chance of that being true, they never officially said that he was.

whats your source?

WHFB was originally set as a planet in the 40k galaxy (yes, some of the original models in WHFB had 40k style guns), just read his character profile that I linked, and tell me that doesn't scream Primarch to you.

it screams emperor!!!!

every story has to have a god like figure...

the emperor is the figure in 40k world

sigmr is the one in whfb...

but i dont believe that sigmar is one of the missing primarchs... the stories elude to them doing something bad and thier punishment was exile or removal from history... becoming sigmar doesnt seem bad...

show me the facts!!!!

One of them, yes was probably sigmar. there is an implication that the SW killed at least one of the legions, although they may not have been reunited with their primarch yet at that time (if they ever were) there were legions, like the dark angels, which fought for a while under the emperor before their primarchs were recovered.

We'll never know though, it's be design so people can make their marines from one of the lost legions. Although I've never seen anyone do that in like, 15 years of playing space marines, so it doesn't seem to have caught on very well.

GW will never tell us....or at least, I hope they never do as some things should just remain a mystery.

Frankly I doubt they could come up with an interesting enough storyline to satisfy fans overall.

Anyway, my own personal concept for what happened to the missing legions is one of them, the 2nd, engaged in some action in direct disobedience to the Emperor or his plans (haven't quite satisfied myself what this would have been though).

The XIth Primarch and his legion took it upon himself to destroy the 2nd, without any orders from the Emperor.

The success of the XIth in eliminating the 2nd Legion caused excess pride in both the Primarch and the Legion, and he began to place himself on a plane above the other Primarchs, being the only one who would, or could, stand up to another legion, 2nd only to the Emperor, etc...etc... This pride was the early stirrings of Chaos beginning to taint the Primarch and Legion.

In fact, the XI Primarch was the original choice of the Chaos gods to lead the Heresy (hence why in Horus' Chaos-confused dream state in the Serpent Lodge he stopped by the tank of Primarch XI and felt "untapped glory" within...it wasn't glory for the Imperium, but for Chaos).

Recognizing this early, the Emperor then loosed the Space Wolves onto the XI Legion and Primarch, destroying them both.

The Emperor reacted to all this death and destruction of his children in a number of tragic ways. First, he wiped the records clean of the lost Legions and Primarchs in order to hide the shame of fraternal violence and to hide the existence of Chaos longer.

Also, feeling guilt and sadness over having to destroy the XI Legion, the Emperor then, began to give his remaining sons a longer leash than he otherwise would have....thus Lorgar's Emperor worship was allowed to get out of hand, Magnus was tinkering with Sorcery unwatched longer than he should have, Angron was allowed to get way out of hand, etc...etc...

Thus, the missing two Legions were a prequel to/mini-version of, and an eventual cause, of the Horus Heresy!

Just As Planned!

Maybe.

fun hypothesis... props

Allude, not elude.

That said, chances are the Primarchs were defective from the get go when they were discovered, because they disappeared pretty quickly.

The other thing to take into account is that if you look at how screwed up Angron is, he was kept. Keeping Angron was ludicrous. He should have been euthanized like a rabid dog, but the Emprah kept him out of some bizarre sense of sentimentality.

So if Angron is that screwed up, but they got rid of 2 and 11, something had to be seriously wrong with them.

 chuckz1487 wrote:
it screams emperor!!!!

every story has to have a god like figure...

the emperor is the figure in 40k world

sigmr is the one in whfb...

but i dont believe that sigmar is one of the missing primarchs... the stories elude to them doing something bad and thier punishment was exile or removal from history... becoming sigmar doesnt seem bad...

show me the facts!!!!

I don't think you read that article very well lol. You saw the word emporer an presumed straight away he wasn't a primarch. Heaps of other Promarchs became warlords/Emporers/leaders of their people before the emperor found them. Signal fits the missing Promarch bill almost too well. He was even taller than the average man, was able to fight for 50 years and keep his vitality, and then one day wondered off for no known reason. That screams Primarch.

I know somewhere (probably in the First Heretic) that Lorgar is talking to another primarch or Kor Phaeron or someone, and they are discussing how each son exemplified a trait of the Emperor. I think it went:
Horus: Ambition/Arrogance
Magnus: Psychic Might
Gulliman: Everything

Anyone please help my sad list

SirSertile wrote:
I know somewhere (probably in the First Heretic) that Lorgar is talking to another primarch or Kor Phaeron or someone, and they are discussing how each son exemplified a trait of the Emperor. I think it went:
Horus: Ambition/Arrogance
Magnus: Psychic Might
Gulliman: Everything

Anyone please help my sad list

We've already had many threads for this. This thread is for missing primarchs, not existing ones.

My personal belief is that at least one of the missing Legions' Primarchs landed onto an alien world and became loyal to said aliens, and still rose to high ranking, before the emprahfound them. I think that this was before the total xenocide policy was put into place(emperor originally only exterminated aliens who posed a future threat to the Imperium), so primarch was recovered, given Legiomn, and went conquering. Eventually, the Xenos on the Protectorate world pulled a Caliban, only they got the support of their resident Primarch, but Primarch was unable to get his entire Legion'ssupport. Space Wolves come and quell the rebellion, kill the Primarch, and the remaining Loyalists from mystery legion are folded into the UMs due to stability and ability to watch them. After this, full xenocide policy is enacted in order to prevent future reenactments of this fiasco.

 Rippy wrote:

 chuckz1487 wrote:
it screams emperor!!!!

every story has to have a god like figure...

the emperor is the figure in 40k world

sigmr is the one in whfb...

but i dont believe that sigmar is one of the missing primarchs... the stories elude to them doing something bad and thier punishment was exile or removal from history... becoming sigmar doesnt seem bad...

show me the facts!!!!

I don't think you read that article very well lol. You saw the word emporer an presumed straight away he wasn't a primarch. Heaps of other Promarchs became warlords/Emporers/leaders of their people before the emperor found them. Signal fits the missing Promarch bill almost too well. He was even taller than the average man, was able to fight for 50 years and keep his vitality, and then one day wondered off for no known reason. That screams Primarch.

If that were true, why would the emperor not just mention him at some point... like someone else posted, if he kept angron, why wouldnt he mention sigmar, who seemed to be a bad ass dude?

The 2nd legion were female marines. They were significantly better than the other legions but the Emp knew 12 year old boys would never buy toys of female marines so he wiped them out and deleted them from the records.

The 11th legion were horrible mutants and never really got off the ground as a legion.

 SilverMK2 wrote:
The 2nd legion were female marines. They were significantly better than the other legions but the Emp knew 12 year old boys would never buy toys of female marines so he wiped them out and deleted them from the records.

The 11th legion were horrible mutants and never really got off the ground as a legion.

lol. Too bad most females have a genetic predisposition against war, while most men have a genetic predisposition for war. Seems to me that would be one of the weaker Legions; though females are quite capable of waging war, female Astartes would be like 1 in every 500 mil instead of 1 in a million, and their average Marines would STILL be only as good as an ordinary Marine. Still possible, though the Legion would have to recruit from like 100 worlds instead of the usual one or two.
IVE GOT IT! Guilliman and the Smurfs is secretly a female! I mean think about it; the original Realm of Ultramar was at least 50 worlds, so he should have been able to raise a force of at LEAST 2 mil Astartes.

 dusara217 wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
The 2nd legion were female marines. They were significantly better than the other legions but the Emp knew 12 year old boys would never buy toys of female marines so he wiped them out and deleted them from the records.

The 11th legion were horrible mutants and never really got off the ground as a legion.

lol. Too bad most females have a genetic predisposition against war, while most men have a genetic predisposition for war. Seems to me that would be one of the weaker Legions; though females are quite capable of waging war, female Astartes would be like 1 in every 500 mil instead of 1 in a million, and their average Marines would STILL be only as good as an ordinary Marine. Still possible, though the Legion would have to recruit from like 100 worlds instead of the usual one or two.
IVE GOT IT! Guilliman and the Smurfs is secretly a female! I mean think about it; the original Realm of Ultramar was at least 50 worlds, so he should have been able to raise a force of at LEAST 2 mil Astartes.

http://www2.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/iraq-kurdistan-female-regiment-peshmerga-fight-is.html#
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_of_Jhansi_Regiment
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches
Cough cough. Bull . Cough cough

3dog wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
The 2nd legion were female marines. They were significantly better than the other legions but the Emp knew 12 year old boys would never buy toys of female marines so he wiped them out and deleted them from the records.

The 11th legion were horrible mutants and never really got off the ground as a legion.

lol. Too bad most females have a genetic predisposition against war, while most men have a genetic predisposition for war. Seems to me that would be one of the weaker Legions; though females are quite capable of waging war, female Astartes would be like 1 in every 500 mil instead of 1 in a million, and their average Marines would STILL be only as good as an ordinary Marine. Still possible, though the Legion would have to recruit from like 100 worlds instead of the usual one or two.
IVE GOT IT! Guilliman and the Smurfs is secretly a female! I mean think about it; the original Realm of Ultramar was at least 50 worlds, so he should have been able to raise a force of at LEAST 2 mil Astartes.

http://www2.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/iraq-kurdistan-female-regiment-peshmerga-fight-is.html#
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_of_Jhansi_Regiment
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches
Cough cough. Bull . Cough cough

Females CAN make great soldiers, but generally only when "protecting the nest", so to speak. They don't USUALLY have the will to conquer and dominate that the Astartes have. My mother, after spending a decade and a half in the army, said that women don't belong in combat. The fact of the matters, men have evolved to kill, women have not. Why do you think men are generally bigger and stronger and are usually the big brutes when big brutes are mentioned?

Good god do not start about female marines, it will kill this thread for sure. Female marines are the 40K Godwin's Law.

 dusara217 wrote:

3dog wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:

 SilverMK2 wrote:
The 2nd legion were female marines. They were significantly better than the other legions but the Emp knew 12 year old boys would never buy toys of female marines so he wiped them out and deleted them from the records.

The 11th legion were horrible mutants and never really got off the ground as a legion.

lol. Too bad most females have a genetic predisposition against war, while most men have a genetic predisposition for war. Seems to me that would be one of the weaker Legions; though females are quite capable of waging war, female Astartes would be like 1 in every 500 mil instead of 1 in a million, and their average Marines would STILL be only as good as an ordinary Marine. Still possible, though the Legion would have to recruit from like 100 worlds instead of the usual one or two.
IVE GOT IT! Guilliman and the Smurfs is secretly a female! I mean think about it; the original Realm of Ultramar was at least 50 worlds, so he should have been able to raise a force of at LEAST 2 mil Astartes.

http://www2.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2014/08/iraq-kurdistan-female-regiment-peshmerga-fight-is.html#
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rani_of_Jhansi_Regiment
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahomey_Amazons
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Witches
Cough cough. Bull . Cough cough

Females CAN make great soldiers, but generally only when "protecting the nest", so to speak. They don't USUALLY have the will to conquer and dominate that the Astartes have. My mother, after spending a decade and a half in the army, said that women don't belong in combat. The fact of the matters, men have evolved to kill, women have not. Why do you think men are generally bigger and stronger and are usually the big brutes when big brutes are mentioned?

Males are larger because testosterone promotes bone growth. Humans in general are not evolved to kill in any manner. We're pathetic at it unless we have tools at our disposal. Many cultures use men as the 'disposable' gender because of the fact that in a war it's easier to supply people who can't get pregnant or have a menstrual cycle.
Hell, I'd you want to mention big brutes you could bring up the Vikings, who had female soldiers fairly commonly. By the way, the anecdote of your mother means nothing. My aunt, a former soldier, actually got disciplined over being 'too aggressive.' Does that have any bearing? Not really.

The problem with women in war isn't emotional BS or other stuff, it's simply skeletal structure. The male body is more or less the most effecient a human can get, but females sacrificed this efficiency for wider hips so they could give birth to children with large brains as human evolution was pushing brain size to its very limits.

Also, humans are not at all "pathetic" compared to other species. Our opposable thumbs combined with our leg structure and large brains is unparallelled in the entire history of evolution on Earth. While we may not be as strong as Chimps, humans can still kill animals such as Grizzly Bears in hand-to-hand combat.

It's interesting to note, that whilst I agree with you that men are built for war, they don't monger for war any more then women do, in fact in some societies/communities I'd suggest they monger for it less.

Thatcher loved a war.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
It's interesting to note, that whilst I agree with you that men are built for war, they don't monger for war any more then women do, in fact in some societies/communities I'd suggest they monger for it less.

Thatcher loved a war.

I don't believe there's any evidence to support males having an emotional predisposition for war. This would instead be the result of culture influencing the minds of children. Especially with the rise of Nationalism since the 19th Century, war has been glorified by most of world by society as a duty to your nation.

 Wyzilla wrote:
The problem with women in war isn't emotional BS or other stuff, it's simply skeletal structure. The male body is more or less the most effecient a human can get, but females sacrificed this efficiency for wider hips so they could give birth to children with large brains as human evolution was pushing brain size to its very limits.

Also, humans are not at all "pathetic" compared to other species. Our opposable thumbs combined with our leg structure and large brains is unparallelled in the entire history of evolution on Earth. While we may not be as strong as Chimps, humans can still kill animals such as Grizzly Bears in hand-to-hand combat.

Show me proof of this now. Not that I don't believe you, but grizzly bears have decapitated men in one blow, so I'd love to read the story of the dude who took one out with his bare (whey) hands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Wyzilla wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
It's interesting to note, that whilst I agree with you that men are built for war, they don't monger for war any more then women do, in fact in some societies/communities I'd suggest they monger for it less.

Thatcher loved a war.

I don't believe there's any evidence to support males having an emotional predisposition for war. This would instead be the result of culture influencing the minds of children. Especially with the rise of Nationalism since the 19th Century, war has been glorified by most of world by society as a duty to your nation.

My point wasn't that men are blood thirsty, it was that women are.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
The problem with women in war isn't emotional BS or other stuff, it's simply skeletal structure. The male body is more or less the most effecient a human can get, but females sacrificed this efficiency for wider hips so they could give birth to children with large brains as human evolution was pushing brain size to its very limits.

Also, humans are not at all "pathetic" compared to other species. Our opposable thumbs combined with our leg structure and large brains is unparallelled in the entire history of evolution on Earth. While we may not be as strong as Chimps, humans can still kill animals such as Grizzly Bears in hand-to-hand combat.

Show me proof of this now. Not that I don't believe you, but grizzly bears have decapitated men in one blow, so I'd love to read the story of the dude who took one out with his bare (whey) hands.

 Wyzilla wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
It's interesting to note, that whilst I agree with you that men are built for war, they don't monger for war any more then women do, in fact in some societies/communities I'd suggest they monger for it less.

Thatcher loved a war.

I don't believe there's any evidence to support males having an emotional predisposition for war. This would instead be the result of culture influencing the minds of children. Especially with the rise of Nationalism since the 19th Century, war has been glorified by most of world by society as a duty to your nation.

My point wasn't that men are blood thirsty, it was that women are.

Neither gender is. It's simply societal and culture bias likely resulting from tribalism and nationalism.

 chuckz1487 wrote:
I know this is a question with no FOR SURE answer but its still fun... so wtf happened to the 2 and 11 Legion... We know they were expunged and that they elude to them in the books and the emperor has acknowledged there creation. But still wtf happened to them... open discussion

1. They were expunged from Imperial records after Lion El'Jonson was found (In The Descent of Angels, It Is Mentioned That The Lion Has 19 Brothers)

2. They were expunged before Corax was found (In deliverance lost, a sad look appears on the emperor's face when Corax asks him why he only has 17 brothers if his gestation tube was labeled XVIV. He then tells Corax that it is a conversation for another day)

3. Horus thinks of untapped glories when facing in gestation tube labeled XI during his trance in an attempt to corrupt him to chaos in False Gods

4. Magnus, in a conversation with Mortarion after the victory at Ulanor, mentions that so many Primarchs have not been gathered on one world since the erasure of the II and XI legions.

5. It is mentioned that the Apace Wolves might have something to do with it, but I think those things are just referring to the Night of the Wolf. However, on the subject of the Night of the Wolf, I read you a quote from the wiki "Imperial records state that two Primarchs came to Angron, both claiming to have been sent by the Emperor in an attempt to stop him from implanting his Astartes of the World Eaters Legion with the cortical implants known as the Butcher's Nails that were transforming his Space Marines into berserk and savage killers. The first arrived soon after Angron joined his Legion after being unwillingly rescued from his homeworld of Nuceria. The second would not come until almost a century later. By then, it would already be too late for the XII Legion"

My Theory:
This is pure speculation, but I think those 2 Primarchs that met with Angron might have been the missing Primarchs. (They might have been known Primarchs, but I digress). I believe that Angron butchered both Primarchs like he had butchered the captains of the War Hounds legion, who tried to persuade him to take control of the legion. After this happened, the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to put an end to the World Eaters. This came to be known as the night of the Wolf. Both sides claimed victory, but neither had truly won. If the Emperor declared Angron and his legion traitors, then there would be nothing to stop the world eaters from butchering Imperial world after Imperial world, the slaughter would be endless. Instead, I believe that the emperor made all of the Primarchs swear an oath to never speak of this again and then, he could put Angron where he would do the least damage or direct the World Eaters' fury at Xenos worlds.

 chuckz1487 wrote:

 Rippy wrote:

 chuckz1487 wrote:
it screams emperor!!!!

every story has to have a god like figure...

the emperor is the figure in 40k world

sigmr is the one in whfb...

but i dont believe that sigmar is one of the missing primarchs... the stories elude to them doing something bad and thier punishment was exile or removal from history... becoming sigmar doesnt seem bad...

show me the facts!!!!

I don't think you read that article very well lol. You saw the word emporer an presumed straight away he wasn't a primarch. Heaps of other Promarchs became warlords/Emporers/leaders of their people before the emperor found them. Signal fits the missing Promarch bill almost too well. He was even taller than the average man, was able to fight for 50 years and keep his vitality, and then one day wondered off for no known reason. That screams Primarch.

If that were true, why would the emperor not just mention him at some point... like someone else posted, if he kept angron, why wouldnt he mention sigmar, who seemed to be a bad ass dude?

For a person asking on theories for what happened to two legions, you do not have a very strong imagination!
Maybe the Emperor discovered the WHFB early in the crusade, not wanting the other Primarchs/legions/IoM knowing about Chaos (which have a large presence on the planet), he made contact personally with the planet, located Sigmar, and killed him so that he would never be found, then the planet was struck from imperial record. See? It is fun to pretend

Edit: or maybe the Emperor could never locate his lost son (Sigmar), as in his grief at a lost son, had the legion he was supposed to inherit destroyed/repurposed and expunged from record.

natpri771 wrote:

 chuckz1487 wrote:
I know this is a question with no FOR SURE answer but its still fun... so wtf happened to the 2 and 11 Legion... We know they were expunged and that they elude to them in the books and the emperor has acknowledged there creation. But still wtf happened to them... open discussion

1. They were expunged from Imperial records after Lion El'Jonson was found (In The Descent of Angels, It Is Mentioned That The Lion Has 19 Brothers)

2. They were expunged before Corax was found (In deliverance lost, a sad look appears on the emperor's face when Corax asks him why he only has 17 brothers if his gestation tube was labeled XVIV. He then tells Corax that it is a conversation for another day)

3. Horus thinks of untapped glories when facing in gestation tube labeled XI during his trance in an attempt to corrupt him to chaos in False Gods

4. Magnus, in a conversation with Mortarion after the victory at Ulanor, mentions that so many Primarchs have not been gathered on one world since the erasure of the II and XI legions.

5. It is mentioned that the Apace Wolves might have something to do with it, but I think those things are just referring to the Night of the Wolf. However, on the subject of the Night of the Wolf, I read you a quote from the wiki "Imperial records state that two Primarchs came to Angron, both claiming to have been sent by the Emperor in an attempt to stop him from implanting his Astartes of the World Eaters Legion with the cortical implants known as the Butcher's Nails that were transforming his Space Marines into berserk and savage killers. The first arrived soon after Angron joined his Legion after being unwillingly rescued from his homeworld of Nuceria. The second would not come until almost a century later. By then, it would already be too late for the XII Legion"

My Theory:
This is pure speculation, but I think those 2 Primarchs that met with Angron might have been the missing Primarchs. (They might have been known Primarchs, but I digress). I believe that Angron butchered both Primarchs like he had butchered the captains of the War Hounds legion, who tried to persuade him to take control of the legion. After this happened, the Emperor sent the Space Wolves to put an end to the World Eaters. This came to be known as the night of the Wolf. Both sides claimed victory, but neither had truly won. If the Emperor declared Angron and his legion traitors, then there would be nothing to stop the world eaters from butchering Imperial world after Imperial world, the slaughter would be endless. Instead, I believe that the emperor made all of the Primarchs swear an oath to never speak of this again and then, he could put Angron where he would do the least damage or direct the World Eaters' fury at Xenos worlds.

With how big an idiot the Emprah has become since the Horus Heresy book series started, this sounds entirely audible.