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Since I started running Deathwing Knights, I've been growing a lot fonder of heavily/purely melee based units. I was so impressed with the performance of them that I've been debating with every other army I've played lately what they consider to be the best when it comes to stabbing and smashing. I'd like to know who you think is the top unit, and a bit of an explanation why (in case it's something I'm not familiar). This is specifically for units that multiples can be taken of, not special characters.

Right now I'm thinking Deathwing knights win it. First turn they guaranteed deep strike, can drop at a guaranteed spot 18" out of my start if my bikes did a scout move. Maces that can be S10 AP2 that hit at initiative once per game (guaranteed kill anything). So more durable than standard termies, weapons that can do more damage. Better T and WS. In general, probably the most killy unit marines can take, and if they happen to go up against other termies or something particularly scary they turbo-charge their maces. Oh, and need I mention, fearless, fear, adamantium will, precision strike, HoW.

TWC is pretty top tier when it comes to melee power, especially if accompanied by a HQ who can tank incoming shots.

These days there´s so much AP2 going on that any choice of terminator is mostly overpriced and easily killed, if one plays on some sort of competitive level.

I would honestly stick with the good old-fashioned Grey Hunters. Though it sucks having to buy CCW, and extra attack is hard to pass up. Strictly speaking, with their access to the banner, I would have to say they beat most other standard troops in CC.

Probably not the best melee unit in the game, but there's something viscerally satisfying about a blob of 20 Sisters with 5 Priests and a nearby command squad with the Sacred Banner of the Orders Militant just ripping hormagaunts to shreds with their bare hands

Ultimately it depends on the target. There isn't really much of anything that's not a Death Company that a big squad of Repentia can't obliterate when charging, and that's even if they don't have their AoF up - the three that survive your attacks are liable to shred you with twelve WS4, S8 AP2 Armourbane attacks with re-rolls to hit (and maybe wound if you give them a priest!)

I have to throw in with Plague Marines as the best /defensive/ melee unit. T5, 3+, FNP and +1 for two CCW (Plague Knife and Bolt Pistol standard) coupled with the option for two flamers and combi-flame on the Champion AND Defensive Grenades to take away the enemy +1 on the Charge... They're not moving for anything short of a 250pt+ unit coming down on them or outnumbered three to one.

The best melee unit is the Dreadknight. Discussion over.

goblinking201 wrote:I would honestly stick with the good old-fashioned Grey Hunters. Though it sucks having to buy CCW, and extra attack is hard to pass up. Strictly speaking, with their access to the banner, I would have to say they beat most other standard troops in CC.

I've only been up against wolves once, which banner do they have you're talking about?

SharkoutofWata wrote:I have to throw in with Plague Marines as the best /defensive/ melee unit. T5, 3+, FNP and +1 for two CCW (Plague Knife and Bolt Pistol standard) coupled with the option for two flamers and combi-flame on the Champion AND Defensive Grenades to take away the enemy +1 on the Charge... They're not moving for anything short of a 250pt+ unit coming down on them or outnumbered three to one.

I can't remember, are they fearless or just know no fear? Either way, I will agree that they're a pain to kill.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:
The best melee unit is the Dreadknight. Discussion over.

Don't make me laugh! If I'm against a dreadknight I'd save my mace swings for it, it'd be dead twice over in a single assault phase. Maybe kill 1 knight.

Ork Shootas. Because it is fething hilarious to see 30 or so green bodies crush a squad of Guardsmen by sheer numbers.

Purifiers are good for anything non-Termi, too.

How has Death Company not been mentioned yet? A unit of 15 DCs, with Jump Packs, a couple of Fists, and add a banner and then a Sang Priest for extra Lulz

I'm going with:

1) Thunderwolf Cavalry. Even with no upgrades they are mighty killy and very fast, throw in some hammers or claws and a tooled up leader and they can take apart whole armies.

2) Death Company. Because 5 S5 I5 attacks apiece for 20-23ppm is just insane. Unlike TWC, they don't really need a kitted out leader to really shine.

3) Necron Wraiths with Destroyer Lord. Very much a hard counter to elite CC units with their 3++, and then throw back a load of attacks with PE and some Warscythe hits.

 RunicFIN wrote:
TWC is pretty top tier when it comes to melee power, especially if accompanied by a HQ who can tank incoming shots.

Yeah, I'll nominate TWC as well. They're pretty damn good on their own, and I'd rate Thunder Wolf Lords among the best melee HQs in the game.

They certainly have one of the best records in my group.

 RunicFIN wrote:
These days there´s so much AP2 going on that any choice of terminator is mostly overpriced and easily killed, if one plays on some sort of competitive level.

I think your mileage with 2+ saves may vary. Depends what you're sacrificing (e.g. by not taking bikes or the like), how much you're paying etc. Though, having a character with a 2+ save is probably more efficient for tanking wounds.


Other possibilities:

- GK Terminators. Not because they're the best per se, but because they're troops. Not many armies can boast cheap terminators with force weapons as their basic troops. Also, they have pretty good support options and, with psycannons, good ranged weapons as well.

- Dark Eldar Bloodbri... HAHAHA. As if.

- DE Incubi are pretty good in terms of raw damage - with 3 S4 (potentially S5) AP2 attacks at WS5 I6 each on the charge. of course, if your opponent strikes back, it's going to hurt.

- IG blob with a priest. Will they win combats? Probably not. However, you have 50 fearless guardsmen to get through, who have hatred on their first turn and can potentially reroll failed to-wound rolls or armour saves. Surely that has to be worth something?

 dusara217 wrote:
How has Death Company not been mentioned yet? A unit of 15 DCs, with Jump Packs, a couple of Fists, and add a banner and then a Sang Priest for extra Lulz

30 Death company with Jump Packs and twin thunder hammers, lead by Lemartes = 3000 points. Powerful? Yes. Point effective? Not at all

I feel mutilators deserve a special mention for their sheer versatility, but they are certainly not as killy as your deathwing doods.

 Paradigm wrote:
I'm going with:

1) Thunderwolf Cavalry. Even with no upgrades they are mighty killy and very fast, throw in some hammers or claws and a tooled up leader and they can take apart whole armies.

2) Death Company. Because 5 S5 I5 attacks apiece for 20-23ppm is just insane. Unlike TWC, they don't really need a kitted out leader to really shine.

3) Necron Wraiths with Destroyer Lord. Very much a hard counter to elite CC units with their 3++, and then throw back a load of attacks with PE and some Warscythe hits.

Im going to go with this. Though sanguinary guard are right there with TWC. Powerful on their own, but get exponentially better the more characters or upgrades you give them. I would say TWC are better vs plasma and lascannons and the like, while sanguinary guard are more resilient to torrenting. Also TWC are better at being charged, while SG need that first round boost.

 changerofways wrote:

 dusara217 wrote:
How has Death Company not been mentioned yet? A unit of 15 DCs, with Jump Packs, a couple of Fists, and add a banner and then a Sang Priest for extra Lulz

30 Death company with Jump Packs and twin thunder hammers, lead by Lemartes = 3000 points. Powerful? Yes. Point effective? Not at all

I feel mutilators deserve a special mention for their sheer versatility, but they are certainly not as killy as your deathwing doods.

To be fair that was the old codex, I dunno if DC points have changed at all?

Ork boyz - nothing more interesting to see on an opponents face than the look of sheer horror when they're told they have to make 70 2+ armour saves on their terminators when 20 boys and their warboss charge in

 kingbobbito wrote:

goblinking201 wrote:I would honestly stick with the good old-fashioned Grey Hunters. Though it sucks having to buy CCW, and extra attack is hard to pass up. Strictly speaking, with their access to the banner, I would have to say they beat most other standard troops in CC.

I've only been up against wolves once, which banner do they have you're talking about?

SharkoutofWata wrote:I have to throw in with Plague Marines as the best /defensive/ melee unit. T5, 3+, FNP and +1 for two CCW (Plague Knife and Bolt Pistol standard) coupled with the option for two flamers and combi-flame on the Champion AND Defensive Grenades to take away the enemy +1 on the Charge... They're not moving for anything short of a 250pt+ unit coming down on them or outnumbered three to one.

I can't remember, are they fearless or just know no fear? Either way, I will agree that they're a pain to kill.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

SGTPozy wrote:
The best melee unit is the Dreadknight. Discussion over.

Don't make me laugh! If I'm against a dreadknight I'd save my mace swings for it, it'd be dead twice over in a single assault phase. Maybe kill 1 knight.

They have a banner that gives all troops within 6 in. +1 attack.

Bully Boyz is very strong with 15 mega nobz with fear, fearless, WS5. Sure there are better deathstar units but few units can bring 45 base PK swings (60 on the charge) and its 3 different units so they can spread out their killing . All for 600 points, 700 if you put them in trukks.

Big Henchmen warbands kill everything.
Combine an inquisitor to give scout to their land raider, a bunch of crusaders for defence, some priests to make their 3++ saves rerollable and let them reroll to wound, and DCAs to kill stuff (4 S4 attacks each at WS 5, I 6 and AP 3).

I have yet to find any amount of power armored troops that can survive that; and the unit is resilient enough to keep on killing stuff throughout the game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They can even kill fully buffed Daemon Princes if they fail to get Iron Arm (and any good Inquisition list has enough warp charges to dispel it soooo easily)

Greater Unclean One with Biomancy and Balesword.

Actually, mentioning the Inquisition is a good point. 4 Crusaders, 6 DCA and 1 Priest (and 10 points for a psyker if you want to add a Warp Charge to the squad) make a frankly insane melee unit, throw in Rad Grenades on an Inquisitor for dropping the enemy Toughness, Psychotrope grenades to make them useless, and basically anything the squad touches is sliced apart.

Necron royal disco court inferno anyone?

Green tide. 100+ boys with FNP, Fearless and 5+ klaws. They are never going to lose a combat

Played against it, and beat it. Lots of bodies means very few will actually get to hit. Boyz are better than, say, Tactical Marines in assault, but they're not particularly good, and if you hit a real combat unit that unit will wade through your hundred Orks.

SGTPozy wrote:
The best melee unit is the Dreadknight. Discussion over.

Draigo on his own is better. 10 Paladins with lots of hammers is straight up the hardest hitting assault unit in the game, though. The only thing that could ever give them a run for their money was 30 Death Company with dual Thunderhammers, but they're gone now and they were never a practical option in the first place. Bullyboyz are pretty rough too, but they're neither as durable nor as shooty as the Paladins.

The incubi with the klaivex were pretty nasty in the last codex(all upgrades). They are pretty good now, but I feel the damage output isn't the same. Plus adding Drazhar or the archon with the older husk blade /soul trap combo was pretty nasty in CC....

SGTPozy wrote:
The best melee unit is the Dreadknight. Discussion over.

It is pretty insane, but I don't know if it's the absolute best.

Honestly though, I'm not really sure what the criteria are.

- Are we evaluating units in a vacuum, or taking into account characters, support units etc.?

- Are we evaluating them on hitting power, speed, survivability, or a combination?

- Are we evaluating them per-point, or effectively ignoring cost? i.e. if we compare a DK to a unit of paladins, are we comparing equal points of both, or just comparing a DK to a mex-size, tooled-up unit of paladins - even when the latter costs 3-4 times as much as the former?

White Scars Command Squad on bikes w/ Storm Shields and Hammers. Depending on the ruling an Apothecary in that squad as well.

350 points for 5 guys with 3+,3++,3+++,5+ FNP and T5, and they get to keep their boltguns via bikes.

Attach Smashfucker for fun.

SGTPozy wrote:
The best melee unit is the Dreadknight. Discussion over.

A juggerlord with aobf can kill a dreadknight in 1 turn.

TWC for sure.

i run an army with 18 of them, (including priests and a lord all tooled up to tank) and they disassemble things.

3 units of them running at you is nothing to scoff at. If its dawn of war deployment garunteed turn 2 charge, if your opponent is ballsy and moves forward then its turn 1. I've had opponents scout move to shoot them, only to be disassembled.

i had a tyranid player infiltrate all over. pretty much surrounding me (lots of ruins and LOS blockers). i broke the ic;s off turn one, had everyone scatter at different targets. They ate everything, then eventually regrouped and pressed forward.

the 12 inch move, and fleet with the options TWC have is amazing.

Necons win over dreadknights. Dreadknights are 11 year old sissy girls compared to a royal court.

Destroyer Lord, Zandrehk, Obyron, 5x lords, all decked out with 2+3++4+++, warscythes, charging at 8 STR, MSSing, re-rolling 1s and virtually indestructable. They can rack up almost 30 attacks between 8 models.

Perhaps not the best but a full unit of 15 jumpy Death Company will be quite a threat on the battlefield with the new BA codex, and they're pretty cheap now as well.