Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ffyllotek wrote:
Necons win over dreadknights. Dreadknights are 11 year old sissy girls compared to a royal court.

Destroyer Lord, Zandrehk, Obyron, 5x lords, all decked out with 2+3++4+++, warscythes, charging at 8 STR, MSSing, re-rolling 1s and virtually indestructable. They can rack up almost 30 attacks between 8 models.

You don't have to go that crazy and sink that many points into it.

5 Necron Lords (2 with SW for tanking small arms, 4 with MSS, 2 with WS, 3 with Staffs of Light, and one with a Res Orb) assaulting out of a Ghost Ark can be super point efficient (315 points) and handle most anything.

Throw in a couple of Crypteks of the Storm into that unit and you also have a unit that can shoot down Super Heavy Vehicles.

Seeing as how a single bare-bones Thunderwolf Cavalry unit can be relied upon to kill a Daemon Prince, I'd say a unit of TWC with all Storm Shields, one Fist, and a Wolf Lord could slaughter an entire army on their own.

15 jump DC + Astorath for rerolls, as part of the Baal strike force detachment for red thirst. Only about 500 points.

If you want to go zany, give them a priest for ws5, or toss in a Libby.

But really you could auto win this discussion by just saying "every IC from the imperium (that are battle bros, sorry space sharks!) grouped together." Figuring out that combat would be hilarious.

Invisible or grimloired khorne dogs with 1-2 khorne heralds on juggers.

Axe of blind fury jugger lord with chaos spawn.

Both units move 12 with fleet, ap 2 swings at high iniative with the wounds to get there.

Points efficiency: Skarbrand


225 points leaves him 9 str7 ap2, Instant death, Hatred, Fleshbane, Armourbane, WS10, I10 attacks on the charge
on average that's 7 Str 7 AP2, Instant-Death Wounds on anything at I10

Can anything that's 225 points beat him?

I can't think of anything off of the top of my head

Damn can we add 20 points for a classic GK vs. Daemon Prince showdown?

I honestly think if dante charged skarbrand, he could win that fight. Particularly if supported by a priest and chapter banner (which he should be). 7 str7 ap2 attacks on the charge, rerolling to hit means about 5 hits and 3-4 wounds in the first round of combat. Assuming decent saves he could pull it off.

thisisnotpancho wrote:
Points efficiency: Skarbrand


225 points leaves him 9 str7 ap2, Instant death, Hatred, Fleshbane, Armourbane, WS10, I10 attacks on the charge
on average that's 7 Str 7 AP2, Instant-Death Wounds on anything at I10

Can anything that's 225 points beat him?

I can't think of anything off of the top of my head

If you're talking single models, then if you don't have Eternal Warrior, you lose to Draigo, simple as that. While Draigo is a fraction of a percent less killy than Abaddon and a few other top combat cahracters, none of them have a Str 9 force weapon.

I still think an AOBF Chaos Lord on a Juggernaught Accompanied by 5 Chaos Spawn literally Tarpits if not destroys a unit per turn.

Charnel Scarabs, ladies and gentlemen.

Farm them up a little, and watch Five Shred and Rending attacks on the charge each from a large horde of very cheap for what you get beasts chew up everything you throw them at.

Easily instant deathed? Not a problem. They don't exactly cost a premium, so just think of their multiple wounds against weaker attacks as an armour save equivalent and S6 or higher attacks as functionally breaching their AP. It turns out about the same in the end.

thisisnotpancho wrote:
Points efficiency: Skarbrand


225 points leaves him 9 str7 ap2, Instant death, Hatred, Fleshbane, Armourbane, WS10, I10 attacks on the charge
on average that's 7 Str 7 AP2, Instant-Death Wounds on anything at I10

Can anything that's 225 points beat him?

I can't think of anything off of the top of my head

4 necron lords each with MSS will beat this 98% of time and still have 25 points left over. You kill yourself on the first turn.

Heck a single Necron Lord will beat you 62% of the time. It trumps any non-vehicle model with instant death melee that doesn't have eternal warrior.

TWC is my bet as single most powerful. I do however like that 50 conscripts and a priest can handle many of these power units and usually win. And all for just 175 points. These guys killed a full wraith unit and a CCB in one game. You have to be able to kill 20+ models in the first round of combat or they make their points back in just damage mitigation to the rest of my army.

However a tooled up TWC is scary scary.

Flipped through the thread, and I've yet to see anything posted in here that will beat a 20-man Seeker squad with attached locus of beguilement Herald in close-combat.

On mathematical averages, the unit will crush every suggestion made in this thread, thus far, unless I've missed something.

Even when not looking at pure hitting power, the unit moves an average of 23'' per turn, meaning it has a better chance of actually reaching combat than the super-majority of units in the game.

For 280 pts you can get :

- 3 Crusader up front
- 6 Deathcult Assassin
- 2 Munistorium Priest (to be sure to get that reroll thing going on), bonus you can give them some ap 2 wep or melta bomb
- 1 Psyker
- 1 Ordo Xenos Inquisitor with force sword /w psyker /w psychotrope and rad grenade

I have yet encountered anything that survived this, especially for 280 pts. The best I have seen was an Avatar + Succubus kitted for CC + Wyches. They survived and managed to slowly grind me out because of the invul save. But they were worth double the points, if not more.

Slap this in a Landraider and its fun.

Not as mobile as DC or TWC, but in terms of pure CC potential vs pts cost, it rocks everything I'm pretty sure. Even against a team of termi with 2+ it's very effective since they will be getting 2 dead from the DCA at ini 6 alone (not counting the charge OR the psychothrope grenade which can put them in a world of hurt). And you have a chance of getting 3++ reroll on your crusader to withstand their own attack at ini 1. Even against MC, it's strong if you can get Hammerhand and stack it with the -1T grenade. You were wounding on 6s, now you're wounding on 3s (with a chance of reroll thanks to the priest). That ini 6 is what makes it very good.

Greentide, anyone?
Having played orkses for quite some time, i can tell that mere board controle is muchmore important than actual 'eadbushing. Sometimes, you don't even need to kill stuff to win. Just frighten it off and get the prize.

Vulkan + ten firedrake terminators annnnndd good luck (because 2 wound terminators with 3++) oh and Vulkan

How much do Firedrakes cost?

A GUO that get's off Endurance, Iron arm and Warp Speed with a Bale Sword, Plague Flail and an extra wound from the Gifts table could seriously wreck anything

WS6 S9 T10 W7 I7 10A on the charge, 5++, 4+ FNP, IWND, Instant Death, Re-rolls to wound, Fear.

This thing would wreck the HH Primarchs

Hell have something nearby with a Grimoir and he's got 3++

Now while unlikely to get all of this to go right, this is a thread about "best melee units" which I truly think this guy is.

Btw T10 = Thunderhammers wounding on a 6

 Zande4 wrote:
A GUO that get's off Endurance, Iron arm and Warp Speed with a Bale Sword, Plague Flail and an extra wound from the Gifts table could seriously wreck anything

WS6 S9 T10 W7 I7 10A on the charge, 5++, 4+ FNP, IWND, Instant Death, Re-rolls to wound, Fear.

This thing would wreck the HH Primarchs

Hell have something nearby with a Grimoir and he's got 3++

Now while unlikely to get all of this to go right, this is a thread about "best melee units" which I truly think this guy is.

Btw T10 = Thunderhammers wounding on a 6

Mindshackle scarabs

Chaos Chosen with MoS, IoE and Endurance are pretty rough customers. They can bring 5 special weapons, they hit first and they can shrug off wounds. Put them with a CL with a daemon weapon and you have a squad that kills most things.

As mentioned earlier, Draigo is pretty mean in a melee. On top of his built in psyker abilities bumping him to S9 ap2 via hammerhand and the ability to reduce a demon's invul save via banishment, he also has Force to grant ID and eternal warrior to keep him in the fight if a random s10 hit sneaks by his storm shield.

Now imagine throwing him in a nice large unit of properly kitted out paladins with a narthecium, some hammers/falchions/halberds and a banner to grant bonus attacks(or go nuts for the better banner). Add in a ml3 librarian rolling on telepathy for invisibility, and either another librarian rolling for sanctuary or a surefire sanctuary with stern. I defy you to find a unit that can stand toe to toe with these beasts! Admittedly this unit isn't really feasible due to being incredibly overkill against virtually anything, but the point stands.

 unfassbarnathan wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
A GUO that get's off Endurance, Iron arm and Warp Speed with a Bale Sword, Plague Flail and an extra wound from the Gifts table could seriously wreck anything

WS6 S9 T10 W7 I7 10A on the charge, 5++, 4+ FNP, IWND, Instant Death, Re-rolls to wound, Fear.

This thing would wreck the HH Primarchs

Hell have something nearby with a Grimoir and he's got 3++

Now while unlikely to get all of this to go right, this is a thread about "best melee units" which I truly think this guy is.

Btw T10 = Thunderhammers wounding on a 6

Mindshackle scarabs

Well he still has Eternal Warrior and he's wounding himself on a 5+

 Fachxphyre wrote:
As mentioned earlier, Draigo is pretty mean in a melee. On top of his built in psyker abilities bumping him to S9 ap2 via hammerhand and the ability to reduce a demon's invul save via banishment, he also has Force to grant ID and eternal warrior to keep him in the fight if a random s10 hit sneaks by his storm shield.

Now imagine throwing him in a nice large unit of properly kitted out paladins with a narthecium, some hammers/falchions/halberds and a banner to grant bonus attacks(or go nuts for the better banner). Add in a ml3 librarian rolling on telepathy for invisibility, and either another librarian rolling for sanctuary or a surefire sanctuary with stern. I defy you to find a unit that can stand toe to toe with these beasts! Admittedly this unit isn't really feasible due to being incredibly overkill against virtually anything, but the point stands.

You're getting into the point range of a Centurion star.

How would your badass unit deal with three stomping Imperial Knights ?

Kharn! That guy will kill half YOUR OWN army single handed.

TranCtan...wait...what's the point of the thread once again?

TranC'tan's not a melee unit really, his broken thing is jaunting over units. :p

That's exactly what i'm talking bout.

 Zande4 wrote:

 unfassbarnathan wrote:

 Zande4 wrote:
A GUO that get's off Endurance, Iron arm and Warp Speed with a Bale Sword, Plague Flail and an extra wound from the Gifts table could seriously wreck anything

WS6 S9 T10 W7 I7 10A on the charge, 5++, 4+ FNP, IWND, Instant Death, Re-rolls to wound, Fear.

This thing would wreck the HH Primarchs

Hell have something nearby with a Grimoir and he's got 3++

Now while unlikely to get all of this to go right, this is a thread about "best melee units" which I truly think this guy is.

Btw T10 = Thunderhammers wounding on a 6

Mindshackle scarabs

Well he still has Eternal Warrior and he's wounding himself on a 5+

At his point level, he would be going up against 4 mindshackle scarabs from a 4 necron lord court. That puts him at having a 2% chance of attacking each turn. Good luck with that.

Given the presence of multiple MSS as a hard counter to any 1 model non-vehicle solution, the likely solution to the OP query is some horde based strategy.

 Quickjager wrote:
How much do Firedrakes cost?

About 60 each

Green tide is the best. The most popular setup is 90 boys, a couple with 'eavy armor so you have a better save against shooting, 10 PK nobs and a warboss who grants the whole unit fearless plus brings a S10 PK.

The nobs will have 40 S9 AP2 attacks on the charge and then there's the warboss' 5 S10 PK attacks, most likely with a re-roll to hit due to his attack squig.

You can add a painboy to the unit so all 101 models have 5+ FNP. Maybe a KFF big mek too - with good positioning it'll cover all of the orks at the front, so the unit will have a 5++ against shooting.

Oh and the whole unit gets HoW if you roll 10 or more for the charge distance and 'Ere We Go allows you to re-roll one die making it relatively easy to get that tasty HoW!

Better yet, every turn after the first the warboss can call a Waaagh! if he is the army's warlord. The Waaagh! allows the tide to run and charge in the same turn!

Of course, this 'unit' costs 660 points without any upgrades and the monster outlined above comes in at about 1300 points.