Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey all,

Im new to 40k and actually have never played a game as i'm still building up my army.

Ive decided to go with crimson fist space marines because i like the colour theme and the background story.

I have finished pedro kantor, a dreadnought and a ten man tactical unit with missile launcher and flamer.

I have just bought 2 boxes of sternguard and have started to assemble them.

The problem i have is that there is just such a massive selection of weapons that i dont know where to start!!

I guess my style of play will be quite a shooty one and not really a close combat style which is what drew me to the space marines and the fists in particular (bolter drill).

So what do you all think? how should i kit out my 10 man sternguard unit?

Thanks!!

Since youre playing Imperial Fist Chapter Tactics, note that you can choose not to use special issue ammo so that your combi bolters can re-roll 1s to hit.

Other than that I say take them barebones - their special issue ammo is tactically very flexible and spamming meltas or plasmaguns with them just makes that troop incredibly costly and at the end of the day they die just as easily as regular power armored tacticals.

Okay, you sound pretty green so here's some advice.

Get a drop pod, reduce the squad size to 5 or 2 units of 5, and go all combi meltas. Walking or rhinos (generally) are suicide. Making smaller point effective squads mean you can use them surgically to take out a problem. Meltas kill armour, MCs and heavy infantry alike.

Assault is terrible in this edition so shoot all the way.

Most people take sternguard for the 2+ poison shots to deal with MCs and tougher units.

5 Sternguard arent going to do much. 10 is the number of choice, but if you're going the way of the drop pod, then split them into 2 combi squads of 5 after disembarking from the pod so each unit of 5 can target something else. That way you can melta 2 vehicles at once for a great alpha strike.

But if you choose to have them in your deployment zone behind cover, the kraken bolts can help on turn 1 when you deploy more than 24" away to not get shot at, but you can still let loose an entire tactical squad's worth of shooting at an enemy squad, potentially forcing a morale check for 25% casualties. If Tau Firewarriors can shoot at you, your Sternguard can shoot back at them and they have shoddy morale.

10 man squad. 4-6 Combi-weapons, generally go with Melta since it is the only bullet type the Special Issue Ammunition can't mimic. Put them in a Drop Pod.

If you go all Combi you tend to fork out a lot of points that might not get made back up.

Just buy some magnets and magnetize them, so you can Switch weapons.

For the start, just run them without Upgrades unless you want a droppod-throw-away-unit to kill something with combi-meltas. The Special ammo makes them extremely flexible.

Plasma Guns are actually a good choice too. Sure it somewhat mimics the 2+ ammo, but it ignores armor and still does a little vehicle popping, though not much.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plasma Guns are actually a good choice too. Sure it somewhat mimics the 2+ ammo, but it ignores armor and still does a little vehicle popping, though not much.

Except its expensive as hell. The only thing it does that special issue ammo doesnt is also deny terminators their armor save (special issue ammo goes upto AP3) and has an easier time wounding (usually on 2+, and does a better job at killing MCs) but for e.g. 4 PGs youre looking at 60 extra points.

I actually have been giving my sternguard nothing. I'm paying for the special ammo, I'm gonna use it!

There are many ways to use sternguard, the main thing you should do since you are just starting is actually not fully assemble them!

Their special ammo is great and very useful in a wide range of battles, many players use them for mass combi-whatever spam however. Seeing as you are starting, focus on using their special ammo at this time and try taking more sternguard.

Crimson fists allow for some interesting setups, such as 30 sternguard with anti-tank/elite support from other parts of the army. This leaves the sternguard to maul other targets.

I would suggest a small complement of grav guns, a few melta guns and some lascannons and/or plasma guns to take out targets that the sternguard can't. Dreadnoughts are effective for this role in the army.

Please take note, many people will simply tell you the optimal way to run your army, but its YOUR army. Run it as you see fit.

Every model should have a combi. You really can't go wrong with 10 melta or 5 melta 5 plasma or 5 melta 5 flamers. They can also take heavy flamers. 5 melta 3 combi flamers 2 heavy flamers.
A 2 heavy weapon 5 man with 2 laz cannons and a 5 man suicide melta in a rhino can do some work too. Basically it's the best PA unit in the game and it's super versatile.

I agree with Jurai, but I think that the combi-weapon price bump really makes combi-weapons super inefficient now. BA in particular have plenty of other ways to deliver melta. I'm still using attack bikes even after the price bump, because multi-meltas are that useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Every model should have a combi. You really can't go wrong with 10 melta or 5 melta 5 plasma or 5 melta 5 flamers. They can also take heavy flamers. 5 melta 3 combi flamers 2 heavy flamers.
A 2 heavy weapon 5 man with 2 laz cannons and a 5 man suicide melta in a rhino can do some work too. Basically it's the best PA unit in the game and it's super versatile.

I'm gonna start with them naked because I'm cheap and like higher model counts. There as so many good targets for poison ammo and ignore cover ammo, that I really don't feel the need for the combis.

I podded mine with combat squads.
Half with combi-meltas and half with combi flamers. They can make short work of a knight or super heavy. Especially if you go all combi melta.
I drilled holes in my backpacks so I could put push pins in them. Color coded the pins to match the combi (yellow for meltas and red for flamers) so I could mix and match however I want per game and just remove the pin after the shot is used.

Martel732 wrote:
I agree with Jurai, but I think that the combi-weapon price bump really makes combi-weapons super inefficient now. BA in particular have plenty of other ways to deliver melta. I'm still using attack bikes even after the price bump, because multi-meltas are that useful.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Every model should have a combi. You really can't go wrong with 10 melta or 5 melta 5 plasma or 5 melta 5 flamers. They can also take heavy flamers. 5 melta 3 combi flamers 2 heavy flamers.
A 2 heavy weapon 5 man with 2 laz cannons and a 5 man suicide melta in a rhino can do some work too. Basically it's the best PA unit in the game and it's super versatile.

I'm gonna start with them naked because I'm cheap and like higher model counts.

naked with 2 heavy weapons? Or just going MC hunting?

No, just stock. I've run them once with a divination Mephiston in a rhino and it worked out quite well. I rolled perfect timing for Mephiston so I could use any ammo with ignore cover. Ignore cover poison was particularly good against the Tyranids I battled.

I'm not saying you are absolutely wrong, I just don't like paying 30+ pts for a meq body. I can see where the combis would be very useful.

Martel732 wrote:
No, just stock. I've run them once with a divination Mephiston in a rhino and it worked out quite well. I rolled perfect timing for Mephiston so I could use any ammo with ignore cover. Ignore cover poison was particularly good against the Tyranids I battled.

I'm not saying you are absolutely wrong, I just don't like paying 30+ pts for a meq body. I can see where the combis would be very useful.

That is why I love sterngard. They have so many build outs that work. What do you think about DA vet squads? They are 18 points and and can take 10 combis at 5 ppm i think but have no special issue ammo. Does that make them an even better suicide unit because they are much cheaper?

Umm yeah. I'd totally go 5 X melta, 5 X flamer on the DA vets. The whole reason I keep sternguard cheap and don't pod them is so I can shoot the special ammo off as many times as possible. Don't forget they can start shooting from 30" away with AP 4 ammo! With divination, that becomes substantial. But 230 pts for 10 vets with 5 combi melta 5 combi flamer is totally reasonable.

The problem with Pedro is that he doesn't fit in a drop pod alongside a full 10-man squad. Someone has to get out to let him in.
So, put him with a 9-man squad, with no specials.
Run 2x 5-man squads with special weapons in pods, as odd numbers of pods usually works best. If you wanted to, buy them as 2x 10-man squads and leave the other 2x 5-man squads to walk.
Don't forget that they are the only unit that gets to carry a heavy-flamer. It's a waste of their bolter abilities and BS, but if you must take one...

Also, you need a 2nd Troops choice to make a normal army list. Giving a Sternguard unit the ObSec rule doesn't count.

You might want to give the heavy flamers a thought. They work well with the range and targets that sternguard are often working with.

Other then that, bare-bones. I have trouble justifying the 10ppm for combis these days. For the points you spend to get enough to be reliable, you can get a unit that’s not wasting the special ammo.

Yeah, no more than 2 Combis per 5 men, I say. A pod or Rhino is not essential if you are playing some form of gun line, but will get them to where they need to be when they need to be there. All-combis is overkill of the highest degree really, those 100 points on a 10-man squad could get you most of another squad, most of a Dread or be 5 points short of buying Transports for 3 other units.

 MasterOfGaunts wrote:
Just buy some magnets and magnetize them, so you can Switch weapons.

This is probably the best option

Remember, when you put on a combi, you are only "wasting" the special ammo for the single turn you use the other option like melta or flamer. After or before that, you still get to use your special ammo. To me, spending 50-100 points for he combi melta more than makes up it's points when it pops a knight or land raider or baneblade....

If there is no land raider or or baneblade, it is wasteful. If you can't get within 6", it is wasteful. I'll take my chances and not spend 30+ pts for an meq.

 Sir Arun wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Plasma Guns are actually a good choice too. Sure it somewhat mimics the 2+ ammo, but it ignores armor and still does a little vehicle popping, though not much.

Except its expensive as hell. The only thing it does that special issue ammo doesnt is also deny terminators their armor save (special issue ammo goes upto AP3) and has an easier time wounding (usually on 2+, and does a better job at killing MCs) but for e.g. 4 PGs youre looking at 60 extra points.

Since you're only able to select 2 special weapons, I'm pretty sure he meant "plasma guns" as in; " combi- plasmas", which still costs 10 pts. each.

I use my Sternguards in a fast Rhino, and don't use them to engage vehicles. No pricey combis necessary that way. And I'm losing less than 25 pts/model when they get popped. Because they will probably, even with Mephy buffing them.

Martel is right. You need at least 8 meltas in melta range on average to pop a Land Raider in 1 turn of shooting. If you cant do that, you need to hope to hit, pen and then roll a 5 on at least one of your pens to pop it before all HPs are gone.

7th has made it harder to one-shot vehicles with low AP weaponry, and for a unit like that (8 marines with 8 meltas) in a DP youre paying 301 points, and they only have that one turn of shooting-

Melta is still useful, but it's not as alpha-strikey as it used to be.

Martel732 wrote:
If there is no land raider or or baneblade, it is wasteful. If you can't get within 6", it is wasteful. I'll take my chances and not spend 30+ pts for an meq.

Absolutely true. However, we all know that in today's meta, finding an army that does not make use of a land raider or knight or superheavy and so on and so forth is like finding a great black pearl in the safeway oyster tank (excluding bugs of course lol). Especially, if your going into a tourney.
Top that off with only being out of melta range if you roll a 12" deviation directly away from the target vehicle. Anything less will let you deploy at least a few models within 6' of it after your 6" deployment out of it.

I drilled pin holes into my backpacks on them so i can insert color coded push pins with each color representing a different combi and remove them as they are fired. This lets me pick which combi I want to use without having to have 40 different models and if i want to run them "nekkid" I just dont put any pins in at all.
They are very usefull "nekkid" as well but even then, I try to put at least a few in just in case and position them so that they arent killed right off if i dont fire their weapons.

Depending on situation or local meta or just plain out luck/bad luck we are all "right" depending on the situation.
I would suggest to the OP to experiment maybe using proxies or some other method to see what works best for them or just what they like best or think is cooler looking.