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RoninXiC wrote:
They said that to costumers? Maybe you have a clouded memory. They said that to shops.

You honestly believe that wasn't aimed at both parties? That's an awful naive viewpoint.
Accusing a store of being a parasite, especially when the stores in question were rather large, would implicate that the consumers of that store were also parasites, After all, a store can sell product at whatever prices it wants, but it can't force you to buy their product. The consumer has to decided they want the product at that price.
Therefore, if Privateer Press accuses online discounters of being parasites by making money off their product without a meaningful contribution to the hobby, then it is reasonable to assume Privateer Press also intends to label supporters of this practice, consumers not willing to support Privateer's hobby/business practices 100%, as parasites.

But to do so would be suicide. They would die in a storm of Bad PR and social media hate. SO instead, they target stores, which are widely established to be incapable of rebutting these accusations without damning themselves.

Hence, the elaborate PP backhand.

Stay on topic. Mk3.

I've been saying since the MKIII announcement that PP is "cashing in." I'm not sure they're going full evil empire, but they're making a lot of decisions that will increase their bottom line.

That's not an entirely bad thing, but when people complain that they need to rebuy half their army to be competitive in the new edition, I feel like PP considers that a feature, not a bug!

And a meta shake up is a good thing. Games don't survive if everybody buys an army and plays the same exact thing for a decade. It's also more fun to see different units and casters. People that bought fairly narrow armies are the ones that get screwed the most. My obsessive need to own everything is finally paying off!

I only dabbled in Mk2 for a little bit but I hope to Mk3 allow me to run my dream "Alternative world WW1" themed army.

Strakhov
Assault Kommandos
Gun Carriage
Artillery
Calvary
Jacks to taste

http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-05-26-2016

 Polonius wrote:
I've been saying since the MKIII announcement that PP is "cashing in." I'm not sure they're going full evil empire, but they're making a lot of decisions that will increase their bottom line.

That's not an entirely bad thing, but when people complain that they need to rebuy half their army to be competitive in the new edition, I feel like PP considers that a feature, not a bug!

And a meta shake up is a good thing. Games don't survive if everybody buys an army and plays the same exact thing for a decade. It's also more fun to see different units and casters. People that bought fairly narrow armies are the ones that get screwed the most. My obsessive need to own everything is finally paying off!

To be fair though, it's not like anyone's actually tested that, it's all speculation/worrying at this point. It might not turn out to be the case at all.

Well.if your army only had Nyss Hunters, Kayazi, a Spriggan etc. Yeah, those options will be rebalanced.

One thing this edition needs to fix that was wrong with MK2 was that all the stuff in the starter sets was sub par. If you got a WM 2 player starter and added in some jacks and solos and maybe another unit you thought were cool, the odds are you had a bad army.

It's possible that nerfing all the top tier stuff and buffing all the stuff that doesn't really see play will make the stuff in starters better, but it will definitely have the side effect of changing what items are popular for their game strength alone. If you played MK2 and bought a top tier tournament list, you'll probably find the stuff no longer stands out.

The real question is whether or not other stuff now stands out or if they actually got their points system to work a lot better than it did for MK2. If nothing stands out to the degree it did in MK2 then list building can be about synergy and your battle plan rather than just taking a subset of the best stuff and ignoring the rest.

The worst part about MK2 (and the part I think caused people to check the game out, play it a bit and then not bother with it any more) was the broken promise of the game being about warjacks. That's the biggest issue this needs to solve. And if they do solve it than existing players will certainly have to buy new stuff as warjacks will be going from generally bad to generally good.

 Polonius wrote:


That's not an entirely bad thing, but when people complain that they need to rebuy half their army to be competitive in the new edition, I feel like PP considers that a feature, not a bug!

Sure, people are complaining about that. Without seeing the new rule books, or playing a single game of the new edition. I can almost hear their Doom-Cycles reving up from her. You get this with EVERY release, because some folks can't leave their Doom-Cycle in the garage.

It's an army game, not a warjacks game. The battlegroup is
still central to many spells and abilities. However, the game
took off as it did because the game was fun with all its parts.

Khador up today: http://privateerpress.com/community/privateer-insider/insider-05-26-2016

Less impactful now the cards have been leaked, but still a useful touchstone for people who don't know a faction inside out.

- Reiteration that Man-o-War's are intended ot be THE heavy infantry in the game, so they keep 8 hit boxes,but lost some DEF down to 10.
- Iron Flesh now boosts ARM not DEF, and now also prevents blast damage.
- Juggernaut chassis got a MAT boost to 7
- Destroyer's AOE increased to 4"
- Behemoth loses.... ah, I forget the name, the skill which allows it to shoot and melee in the same turn.
- Iron Fangs get a MAT boost to 7
- Winter Guard rocket attachment gets Brutal Damage
- Doom reavers lose Abomination (obviously) and a point of POW, but get Tough and are now FA:U
- The Old Witch (which model I shal own one day, oh yes) got an almost completely new spell list to reflect a more witchy, icy flavour, including one which turns every model she kills with her ranged attack into an Arc Node.
- All versions of Butcher get Tough

 .Mikes. wrote:

- The Old Witch (which model I shal own one day, oh yes) got an almost completely new spell list to reflect a more witchy, icy flavour, including one which turns every model she kills with her ranged attack into an Arc Node.

Zerkova, not the witch, got all that.

Misread, apologies.... I didn't think Old Witch had anything range to speak of.

 malfred wrote:
It's an army game, not a warjacks game.

I don't think PP agrees with you. Both in the release of MK2 and now again in MK3 they've reiterated that the game is about warjacks (and warbeasts for hordes) and they are doing what they can to encourage them. Increased jack points and power up is hopefully enough.

It's not an "army" game at all. At most there's a platoon on the battle field. It's a warcaster and their jacks supported by some solos and infantry. The problem is that it's been the warcaster and their infantry and solos supported by a jack or two.

Which sucked. Hopefully MK3 will fix it.

 MattofWar wrote:
One thing this edition needs to fix that was wrong with MK2 was that all the stuff in the starter sets was sub par. If you got a WM 2 player starter and added in some jacks and solos and maybe another unit you thought were cool, the odds are you had a bad army.

This is the biggest problem I have with Warmachine compared to other games. It's not that the stuff in the starters is at all bad, every element in them is perfectly usable, but just not as a package altogether. The game has advanced and mutated to become so much (TOO much!) about synergizing every element of your army. Originally you could have an army, take a different warcaster and it would completely change how your army played. You could buy a different unit or a different solo or a different warjack and that would also change how your army played. As problems arose, instead of using errata to remove problem combos, PP would release new units to answer the power builds, add new abilities to counter what was popular, add unit attachments and solos and warjacks and more units. Over time, as they released more and more and more units it got to the point where you were severely handicapping yourself if you didn't take the specific elements that worked best for your chosen warcaster.

The game that started as "change the caster to change the playstyle" became "change your entire army to match the caster's playstyle", even within the same faction. I was hoping MK3 would do more to address this, but it does not appear to be so, units/solos/jacks still appear far too specialized. hopefully Theme Lists not being bound to specific casters helps.

 MattofWar wrote:

 malfred wrote:
It's an army game, not a warjacks game.

I don't think PP agrees with you. Both in the release of MK2 and now again in MK3 they've reiterated that the game is about warjacks (and warbeasts for hordes) and they are doing what they can to encourage them. Increased jack points and power up is hopefully enough.

It's not an "army" game at all. At most there's a platoon on the battle field. It's a warcaster and their jacks supported by some solos and infantry. The problem is that it's been the warcaster and their infantry and solos supported by a jack or two.

Which sucked. Hopefully MK3 will fix it.

In many cases, that one 'jack has been very dangerous and is not to be left alone if it can at all be helped.

The game has functioned really well as a battle game, and to make it so that every list is 90% warjack as some people would have it would be a mistake. What the game needed was fixes to warcasters and warlocks who relied completely on their battlegroup like Karchev. We'll see if counter-chargechev will hack it in mk3.

It doesn't need to go to 90%. It just needs to be more than the current state where many army lists are best when taking as few jacks as possible. I'd like to see it in the 50-70% range. Where the jacks represent the core of the force and the infantry and solos are support.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
Over time, as they released more and more and more units it got to the point where you were severely handicapping yourself if you didn't take the specific elements that worked best for your chosen warcaster.

I think there's something to this. While I am a fan of list synergy I really don't like how MK2 basically became hyper focused on it. It made perfectly good things you could take suck because there wasn't enough stuff to have synergy with them.

I actually think this "fix it with UAs or solos" is a terrible way to design and develop a game. If you mess up on a unit and it's too weak, instead of releasing a UA to power it up to where you think it should be, just be honest and errata the thing. I wish FFG would do this more with X-Wing as well. If you messed up and made something too weak or too strong, then just fix it rather than selling the fix as a new item to be purchased.

Might want to put pre-orders in with your local store, and ask them if they have orders in with distributors. I have confirmed earlier this week that supply was shockingly low at several distributors, got this today. Go make sure you have a battlebox or book reserverd for you at your store or you might be waiting a while.

Dear store owners, managers and staff,

As you have very likely learned, the June releases featuring the new editions of Warmachine and Hordes are now sold out at the manufacturer level. We received an overwhelming request for Launch Kits (PIP 21111, 21112, 21113) from our distributors, which we sold out of very quickly. In an attempt to meet the great demand for the new editions, we created two new Launch Kits (PIP 21114 and 21115) that were similar to the previous Launch Kits but contained less free items as those items were manufactured in limited supply. Even though we created almost twice as many new kits as our initial Launch Kit offerings, we again sold out of the new kits and had to allocate order quantities for each of our distributors in all territories. Despite our expectation that this production order would last us through the end of the year, adding the additional Launch Kits required most of our remaining product stock and as a result we are also sold out of each individual new edition item and all of our distributors received less product than they initially ordered. The only stock we have reserved is what we require for our upcoming Lock & Load Gamefest (where supplies will be limited) and our recruitment efforts over this summer’s conventions.

We had no expectation that we could be sold out before launch and in fact believed we had ordered enough inventory to keep us supplied for several months. After all, our hopes are to grow the audience for WARMACHINE and HORDES with the new editions, and that requires that we have the product to introduce new players to the game. It’s thrilling that demand has exceeded our wildest expectations but we do know that supply shortages are a problem when you have customers who want the product, and we must apologize for this very unforeseen inconvenience. We are working hard with our vendors to expedite restock orders and are hoping to have card decks back in stock in July, books back in stock in August, and Battleboxes following as quickly as possible after that.

Launching a new product, even a new edition of one that has a successful history behind it, is always a nail biting experience for a publisher because of the unpredictable reception the product may receive. With three years of development and countless hours in new sculpting, artwork, design and writing, we have made a massive investment in the new editions of WARMACHINE and HORDES, and in the future of Privateer Press. If we have proven one thing so far, it is that the community and awaiting audience for these games is thriving and excited and demand is greater than ever. We humbly ask for your patience while we overcome our current product shortage and please know that nothing will make us happier than to get these new editions into the hands of everyone who wants them. We hope that based on the response to our announcements and the clear demand that exists, that you can be confident that WARMACHINE and HORDES will be a significant and profitable component of your business for many years to come.

We shall endeavor to meet your every need as quickly as we possibly can and we thank you for your support.



Sincerely,

Sherry Yeary
President
Privateer Press, Inc

Thanks mik

Hopefully they'll be providing free copies to anybody who has a pre-order but misses out as GW does when they mess up the numbers for non limited stuff

(although I doubt they will)

This reeks. Privateer Press has always had supply problems, and has put a lot of businesses off because of it.
Now we see that again, nothing has changed it seems. Not gonna lie, this isn't a good sign for PP. If anything it shows how little experience/interest they have in 'growing' the brand.
Our store got pre-orders in, at this point I just hope there is nothing wrong with the kits themselves...

 .Mikes. wrote:
- Iron Flesh now boosts ARM not DEF, and now also prevents blast damage.

That's good, I always hated that a spell named that boosted DEF instead of ARM

The immunity to blast damage might be a concern for one of my lists that's relying on a lot of blasts to remove infantry, will have to see how prevalent this spell is now (Barnabas lost it on the Gator side, at least).

Rather disconcerting about the stock issues. I was already borderline on starting the game(s) due to a number of factors, but if this is true then I'm definitely going to pass.

 RiTides wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
- Iron Flesh now boosts ARM not DEF, and now also prevents blast damage.

That's good, I always hated that a spell named that boosted DEF instead of ARM

The immunity to blast damage might be a concern for one of my lists that's relying on a lot of blasts to remove infantry, will have to see how prevalent this spell is now (Barnabas lost it on the Gator side, at least).

Kayazy anyone

After reading the Khador bolg, this strikes me that PP is doing the same exact things GW is doing with an edition change. This doesn't appear just to be tightening up the rules, but changing the balance of the units as well. Only difference seems to be that PP is exposing why they are making changes instead of GW's "drop from on high and deal with it" method.

If that is the case, can't say I approve, and will keep playing with my Mk II rules and cards.

 Stormonu wrote:
After reading the Khador bolg, this strikes me that PP is doing the same exact things GW is doing with an edition change. This doesn't appear just to be tightening up the rules, but changing the balance of the units as well. Only difference seems to be that PP is exposing why they are making changes instead of GW's "drop from on high and deal with it" method.

If that is the case, can't say I approve, and will keep playing with my Mk II rules and cards.

That's....that's kinda what happens when a game changes editions. The whole of the game is evaluated and rewrought into something better than last time.

But yeaah, have fun trying to find a game using old stuff. That never goes over well.

There are people who play older editions of games. It's just
harder to do. They advantage they have is that they could
really just solidify the gameplay down to certain models and
never have to worry about metas changing.

 RiTides wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
- Iron Flesh now boosts ARM not DEF, and now also prevents blast damage.

That's good, I always hated that a spell named that boosted DEF instead of ARM

The immunity to blast damage might be a concern for one of my lists that's relying on a lot of blasts to remove infantry, will have to see how prevalent this spell is now (Barnabas lost it on the Gator side, at least).

My understanding is that "blast damage" refers only the damage from the AOE, not damage against a model directly hit, if any. It's not a huge consolation, but it doesn't make AOEs completely worthless against blast immune.

 Polonius wrote:


My understanding is that "blast damage" refers only the damage from the AOE, not damage against a model directly hit, if any. It's not a huge consolation, but it doesn't make AOEs completely worthless against blast immune.

That's what blast damage has always referred to. Iron Flesh granting immunity to blast damage is kind of cool, because it means that instead of losing 4-5 guys under the blast template, you only lose the dude directly underneath it(who'd usually be dead anyways, since most AOE's are high enough POW to kill basic infantry with a damage roll).

 Stormonu wrote:
After reading the Khador bolg, this strikes me that PP is doing the same exact things GW is doing with an edition change. This doesn't appear just to be tightening up the rules, but changing the balance of the units as well. Only difference seems to be that PP is exposing why they are making changes instead of GW's "drop from on high and deal with it" method.

If that is the case, can't say I approve, and will keep playing with my Mk II rules and cards.

There is another difference. When the rules are improved by PP it is a deliberate decision as a opposed to GW where is is a happy accident.