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Neronoxx wrote:This reeks. Privateer Press has always had supply problems, and has put a lot of businesses off because of it.
Now we see that again, nothing has changed it seems. Not gonna lie, this isn't a good sign for PP. If anything it shows how little experience/interest they have in 'growing' the brand.
Our store got pre-orders in, at this point I just hope there is nothing wrong with the kits themselves...
So when low stock occurred to X-Wing, did we take that as a bad sign for Fantasy Flight Games? Why would PP have little interest in growing the game? People are excited. I know people who pre-ordered one of every new faction starter. Old players, current players, and new players are buying in whole hog, how do you gauge that accurately?
BigDaddio wrote:Rather disconcerting about the stock issues. I was already borderline on starting the game(s) due to a number of factors, but if this is true then I'm definitely going to pass.
So because it's overwhelmingly popular, you're going to pass entirely? Seems logical.
Stormonu wrote:After reading the Khador bolg, this strikes me that PP is doing the same exact things GW is doing with an edition change. This doesn't appear just to be tightening up the rules, but changing the balance of the units as well. Only difference seems to be that PP is exposing why they are making changes instead of GW's "drop from on high and deal with it" method.
If that is the case, can't say I approve, and will keep playing with my Mk II rules and cards.
Isn't... isn't that what you want with a new edition? I can say, quite honestly, that these are some of the most baffling takes on the new edition and sales I've seen.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/27 22:15:38
"Professor, without knowing precisely if there is even to be a problem, would you say it's time for our viewers to call the end of this game, crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"
"Yes I would, Kent."
The galaxy is littered with the single-planet graveyards of civilisations which made the economically sensible decision not to explore space.
.Mikes. wrote: "Professor, without knowing precisely if there is even to be a problem, would you say it's time for our viewers to call the end of this game, crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?"
"Yes I would, Kent."
Exalted.
Side Note: If you like the lore at all, read Blood of Kings. It is excellent and closes a lot of Cygnar loose ends.
BigDaddio wrote:Rather disconcerting about the stock issues. I was already borderline on starting the game(s) due to a number of factors, but if this is true then I'm definitely going to pass.
So because it's overwhelmingly popular, you're going to pass entirely? Seems logical.
What would have been more logical would have been to ask me what those other factors are before making your assumption. Just saying.
The thing is, my interest was already borderline because IMO the models are generally poor quality for the price being charged, the game has a large learning curve (too busy to devote the time needed to learn ALL those potential opposing models), and all the battle reports I have seen look very drab (terrain-wise) which puts me off. But a part of me is still intrigued by the game system, and quite possibly I am vulnerable to the "shiny syndrome" impulse buy to which many of us seem to fall prone. But I cannot impulsively buy what isn't available, can I? The possible stock problem is just one more mark against what I (meaning just me, and no one else has to agree or even understand for all I care) am looking for.
The thing is, my interest was already borderline because IMO the models are generally poor quality for the price being charged, the game has a large learning curve (too busy to devote the time needed to learn ALL those potential opposing models), and all the battle reports I have seen look very drab (terrain-wise) which puts me off. But a part of me is still intrigued by the game system, and quite possibly I am vulnerable to the "shiny syndrome" impulse buy to which many of us seem to fall prone. But I cannot impulsively buy what isn't available, can I? The possible stock problem is just one more mark against what I (meaning just me, and no one else has to agree or even understand for all I care) am looking for.
For what it's worth, there's going to be a lot more terrain on the tables MKIII coming. About 6-7, in the middle of the map.
The learning curve ascend very slowly at first, if you concentrate on Warcaster & Battlegroup. Enough that I can easily explain it to my boardgamer friends without turning them off like most wargames do. For reference, this is a group that would never even consider playing Mordheim.
And you don't need to know what every units in the game does, not even at some competitive level. Clocked events are putting you at a disadvantage, but not all tourneys are clocked.
[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.
BigDaddio wrote:Rather disconcerting about the stock issues. I was already borderline on starting the game(s) due to a number of factors, but if this is true then I'm definitely going to pass.
So because it's overwhelmingly popular, you're going to pass entirely? Seems logical.
What would have been more logical would have been to ask me what those other factors are before making your assumption. Just saying.
The thing is, my interest was already borderline because IMO the models are generally poor quality for the price being charged, the game has a large learning curve (too busy to devote the time needed to learn ALL those potential opposing models), and all the battle reports I have seen look very drab (terrain-wise) which puts me off. But a part of me is still intrigued by the game system, and quite possibly I am vulnerable to the "shiny syndrome" impulse buy to which many of us seem to fall prone. But I cannot impulsively buy what isn't available, can I? The possible stock problem is just one more mark against what I (meaning just me, and no one else has to agree or even understand for all I care) am looking for.
I didn't assume anything. I know you had other reasons. You said that, in the post I quoted. My point was, how does something being sold out for a month or so 'break the camel's back' and put you off a game? I know well of 'new shiny syndrome', it doesn't typically fade that fast.
It really seemed like you were looking for a reason to not pick up the game, rather than being disappointed in stock issues. Which is fine, lord knows I do that a lot to avoid spending money I shouldn't be. But say that, rather than throwing shade at a 'disconcerting' stock issue that is entirely based on popularity, not company created scarcity.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 04:50:04
BigDaddio wrote:Rather disconcerting about the stock issues. I was already borderline on starting the game(s) due to a number of factors, but if this is true then I'm definitely going to pass.
It really seemed like you were looking for a reason to not pick up the game, rather than being disappointed in stock issues. Which is fine, lord knows I do that a lot to avoid spending money I shouldn't be. But say that, rather than throwing shade at a 'disconcerting' stock issue that is entirely based on popularity, not company created scarcity.
How confident are you that the stock issue is based on popularity? Do you really believe that it's just because they're "so popular and sold so many more kits than we expected, like OMG."
Because it's not. No company banking on a new edition to bring new players into a game runs out of stock less than a full month after their announcement. Especially not a company that supposedly meticulously gathered information from every tournament over the last 5 years....
They do this all of the time, with every release it seems.
gunslingerpro wrote:
So when low stock occurred to X-Wing, did we take that as a bad sign for Fantasy Flight Games? Why would PP have little interest in growing the game? People are excited. I know people who pre-ordered one of every new faction starter. Old players, current players, and new players are buying in whole hog, how do you gauge that accurately?
Privateer Press's biggest fans have always been a tad bit on the zealous side, as most fans can be sometimes. Your anecdotal 'evidence' doesn't sway what is a widely held opinion by us 'less faithful.' It doesn't surprise me to hear that, but it doesn't change the fact that Privateer press has a history of being unable to supply their entire line to retailers with any real amount of consistency (which is 90% of carrying miniatures games. if you don't have 100% of the line, you will lose 90% of your walk in sales. Gamers aren't patient people. I can not stress enough how important this is for stores.)
Also comparing X-wing to Warmahordes feels like a bad comparison. X-wing only ran out of stock badly on a few ships at a time, not an entire line of products. The business model is also pretty different. The only release I can remember having stock issues on was the T-70 X-wings. And everyone knew that was gonna happen.
No, X-wing's biggest issue was the wait times for new releases. But they always had enough product for their release.
Take a step back, and you might find a company running out of their newest line of products and launch kits a tad bit strange. I can't help but feel this is directly related to their recent decision to axe online 'parasites.'
Stormonu wrote:After reading the Khador bolg, this strikes me that PP is doing the same exact things GW is doing with an edition change. This doesn't appear just to be tightening up the rules, but changing the balance of the units as well. Only difference seems to be that PP is exposing why they are making changes instead of GW's "drop from on high and deal with it" method.
If that is the case, can't say I approve, and will keep playing with my Mk II rules and cards.
Isn't... isn't that what you want with a new edition? I can say, quite honestly, that these are some of the most baffling takes on the new edition and sales I've seen.
Obviously, it's not what I want. GW's "change the rules for no obvious reason, rebalance everything so your old army stinks" and "those rules/units don't work that way any more" drives me nuts, and from that blog, I'm seeing the same thing here. If anything I would have wished for streamlining some wording, incorporating errata and maybe condense some of the books. In other words, not a new edition, but a new iteration of the existing rulebooks.
Nothing is perfect and this mk2 wasn't perfect. Mk3 is an attempt to get the flaws out of the system and thus some things have to be tweaked, rebalanced, rewritten and or removed.
I really cannot see a single thing wrong with that.
You might be liked mk2 exactly the way it was, but most people saw the problems. It still was a great System and it will probably improve on its strengths and will get rid of its flaws..
BigDaddio wrote:Rather disconcerting about the stock issues. I was already borderline on starting the game(s) due to a number of factors, but if this is true then I'm definitely going to pass.
It really seemed like you were looking for a reason to not pick up the game, rather than being disappointed in stock issues. Which is fine, lord knows I do that a lot to avoid spending money I shouldn't be. But say that, rather than throwing shade at a 'disconcerting' stock issue that is entirely based on popularity, not company created scarcity.
How confident are you that the stock issue is based on popularity? Do you really believe that it's just because they're "so popular and sold so many more kits than we expected, like OMG."
Because it's not. No company banking on a new edition to bring new players into a game runs out of stock less than a full month after their announcement. Especially not a company that supposedly meticulously gathered information from every tournament over the last 5 years....
They do this all of the time, with every release it seems.
So for what logical reason could PP be under producing their products, in this grand scheme of yours? These are the 'super limited' releases you're used to with 40k. These are STARTER products and Core rule books. For what genuine, reasonable purpose would they be doing this?
Spoiler:
gunslingerpro wrote:
So when low stock occurred to X-Wing, did we take that as a bad sign for Fantasy Flight Games? Why would PP have little interest in growing the game? People are excited. I know people who pre-ordered one of every new faction starter. Old players, current players, and new players are buying in whole hog, how do you gauge that accurately?
Privateer Press's biggest fans have always been a tad bit on the zealous side, as most fans can be sometimes. Your anecdotal 'evidence' doesn't sway what is a widely held opinion by us 'less faithful.' It doesn't surprise me to hear that, but it doesn't change the fact that Privateer press has a history of being unable to supply their entire line to retailers with any real amount of consistency (which is 90% of carrying miniatures games. if you don't have 100% of the line, you will lose 90% of your walk in sales. Gamers aren't patient people. I can not stress enough how important this is for stores.)
Also comparing X-wing to Warmahordes feels like a bad comparison. X-wing only ran out of stock badly on a few ships at a time, not an entire line of products. The business model is also pretty different. The only release I can remember having stock issues on was the T-70 X-wings. And everyone knew that was gonna happen.
No, X-wing's biggest issue was the wait times for new releases. But they always had enough product for their release.
Take a step back, and you might find a company running out of their newest line of products and launch kits a tad bit strange. I can't help but feel this is directly related to their recent decision to axe online 'parasites.'
Ignoring the apparent 'you're a fanboi, my side is the normal side' swipe, what is the point you are making again? That PP is purposefully drumming up scarcity on STARTER and CORE products? Again, how does this make a lick of sense? Especially considering the last massive bump in popularity followed a 40k edition change. Sales ebb and flow with everything from edition changes to what other game has a new release, no one can project popularity with 100% accuracy when planning production out months to years in advance.
I think the X-Wing comparison is apt, because when it first dropped, there was almost certainly some difficulty securing starter sets and Wave 1 expansions for new players, at least on the gaming store side of it. But your point more seems to be that PP is somehow creating scarcity to damage online parasites? You mean the same distributors that are getting limited allotment like everyone else? If MiniatureMarket or the like suddenly got no stock, you may have a point. But aren't we jumping to conclusions a little early here, and without any real information?
Stormonu wrote:After reading the Khador bolg, this strikes me that PP is doing the same exact things GW is doing with an edition change. This doesn't appear just to be tightening up the rules, but changing the balance of the units as well. Only difference seems to be that PP is exposing why they are making changes instead of GW's "drop from on high and deal with it" method.
If that is the case, can't say I approve, and will keep playing with my Mk II rules and cards.
Isn't... isn't that what you want with a new edition? I can say, quite honestly, that these are some of the most baffling takes on the new edition and sales I've seen.
Obviously, it's not what I want. GW's "change the rules for no obvious reason, rebalance everything so your old army stinks" and "those rules/units don't work that way any more" drives me nuts, and from that blog, I'm seeing the same thing here. If anything I would have wished for streamlining some wording, incorporating errata and maybe condense some of the books. In other words, not a new edition, but a new iteration of the existing rulebooks.
One of the largest complaints was that a lot of models in the game were subpar in comparison to other options in faction/mercenaries. So they aren't rebalancing for no reason. Also, the purpose of the rebalance is to give units a niche, a purpose and flavor no other unit can match and exceed. This isn't 'Guard Parking Lot is not longer good, go buy monsterous creatures'. This is 'nothing is auto-include or auto-win, see what you like/what works for you'. I think old GW scars are giving you a bit of trepidation, though it is unwarranted.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/28 09:23:48
One of the largest complaints was that a lot of models in the game were subpar in comparison to other options in faction/mercenaries. So they aren't rebalancing for no reason. Also, the purpose of the rebalance is to give units a niche, a purpose and flavor no other unit can match and exceed.
That was allegedly the point of Mk2 as well and it obviously failed if they're doing it again, focusing again on mostly the same problematic models (or rather, again not focusing on the problematic models), and it's obvious at first glance to anyone with some perspective that they failed again.
gunslingerpro wrote: This isn't 'Guard Parking Lot is not longer good, go buy monsterous creatures'.
It's more like 'Guard Parking Lot and monstrous creatures have had their battlefield roles swapped, so go buy the other one if you want to continue using the same playstyle', very broadly speaking.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
One of the largest complaints was that a lot of models in the game were subpar in comparison to other options in faction/mercenaries. So they aren't rebalancing for no reason. Also, the purpose of the rebalance is to give units a niche, a purpose and flavor no other unit can match and exceed.
That was allegedly the point of Mk2 as well and it obviously failed if they're doing it again, focusing again on mostly the same problematic models (or rather, again not focusing on the problematic models), and it's obvious at first glance to anyone with some perspective that they failed again.
gunslingerpro wrote: This isn't 'Guard Parking Lot is not longer good, go buy monsterous creatures'.
It's more like 'Guard Parking Lot and monstrous creatures have had their battlefield roles swapped, so go buy the other one if you want to continue using the same playstyle', very broadly speaking.
What are these specific examples of roles sawpping entirely? Because for now, we're theorizing with limited leaks, potentially beta cards, and no full rule book.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 09:48:00
Bad form gunslingerpro, bad form.
That was a poor shot at putting words in my mouth, or you just can't read. For your own sake, I hope you are just being petty, as I never implied that PP sabotaged their own product just that they didn't make as many kits as were needed.
Since you got took offense and a side about my remark pertaining to fans, I realize you are not going to listen to any amount of reason or evidence. Which is sad, so I'll just say this for other readers.
If a company has a big new game, they should not run out of stock before the game is released. Thats poor form.
The excuse that the game was more popular than expected is likely bull-gak. Companies can plan for this, contrary to what gunslingerpro said, and privateer press knew these kits would be popular. Otherwise, why release them? So they had an idea of how these kits would sell.
And still ran out. I can guarantee plenty of stores are not going to see their orders and will not be able to place orders. Their only hope is Privateer Press does a reprint soon, but those are always iffy.
That coupled with their designer blogs gives a very strong telling of the identity behind the change.
"We won't invalidate your models, but we will invalidate your armies playstyles. Buy new stuff."
Same old Privateer Press.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
HoverBoy wrote: Watching the fanbases of different games interact is truly magnificent.
The funny part is how I make an extremely general statement, and they take offense to it. The key thing to remember is that being offended is a choice.
One of the largest complaints was that a lot of models in the game were subpar in comparison to other options in faction/mercenaries. So they aren't rebalancing for no reason. Also, the purpose of the rebalance is to give units a niche, a purpose and flavor no other unit can match and exceed.
That was allegedly the point of Mk2 as well and it obviously failed if they're doing it again, focusing again on mostly the same problematic models (or rather, again not focusing on the problematic models), and it's obvious at first glance to anyone with some perspective that they failed again.
gunslingerpro wrote: This isn't 'Guard Parking Lot is not longer good, go buy monsterous creatures'.
It's more like 'Guard Parking Lot and monstrous creatures have had their battlefield roles swapped, so go buy the other one if you want to continue using the same playstyle', very broadly speaking.
What are these specific examples of roles sawpping entirely? Because for now, we're theorizing with limited leaks, potentially beta cards, and no full rule book.
I see you haven't read any of the designer blogs. Impressive. The last time I saw someone so in the dark there was a new star wars movie coming out.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2016/05/28 13:11:07
In regards to the product shortages, PP put out some info about it. Seems they honestly thought that the amount of product they ordered would last most of the year, and are surprised by the quantity of orders they're getting.
PP wrote:Hello, everyone.
We wanted to address some misinformation that has come to our attention. There has been some discussion across various platforms that Privateer Press has chosen to treat the EU market as inferior to the US market. We want to make it clear that this has never been the case, and that we value our international players as much as those in the US. Because of the unexpected and overwhelming demand, all distributors, and thus all markets, were allocated product that corresponds to the June releases. Simply put, and to our amazement, we are completely sold out of all products before we have even launched. While we anticipated increased demand for WARMACHINE and HORDES products with the release of the new edition, the response has been astronomical.
Although the launch kits were for the US market only, we did send launch kits to the EU based on distributor orders. We also added two new kits that almost doubled the quantity of kits we had to allocate. Unfortunately, even with five kit offerings we were still a little short and had to remove some kits from all US and EU distributor orders. Consequentially, with the addition of the two new kits, there was very little individual product left (i.e. product that did not go in to making the kits), especially for HORDES.
We also have two fantastic partners, Ulisses Spiel in Germany, and Victoria Games, in France, who have translated and produced additional launch product for their markets and ensuring that we can bring WARMACHINE and HORDES to even more players in the EU on day one.
We did not imagine the possibility that we could be sold out before launch and expected our initial orders would ensure availability until about the end of the year, giving us enough time to re-order and resupply before we ran out. We apologize in advance for any inconvenience this places on our retailers or players. Please know that we are working as quickly as possible to get resupplied by our vendors and will do everything we can to meet demand in every country WARMACHINE and HORDES are played.
Thank you for your excitement and your continued support.
Looking for a club in Brisbane, Australia? Come and enjoy a game and a beer at Pubhammer, our friendly club in a pub at the Junction pub in Annerley (opposite Ace Comics), Sunday nights from 6:30. All brisbanites welcome, don't wait, check out our Club Page on Facebook group for details or to organize a game. We play all sorts of board and war games, so hit us up if you're interested.
Pubhammer is Moving! Starting from the 25th of May we'll be gaming at The Junction pub (AKA The Muddy Farmer), opposite Ace Comics & Games in Annerley! Still Sunday nights from 6:30 in the Function room Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else!
Bad form gunslingerpro, bad form.
That was a poor shot at putting words in my mouth, or you just can't read. For your own sake, I hope you are just being petty, as I never implied that PP sabotaged their own product just that they didn't make as many kits as were needed.
Since you got took offense and a side about my remark pertaining to fans, I realize you are not going to listen to any amount of reason or evidence. Which is sad, so I'll just say this for other readers.
Ok, if we're going to talk reason and evidence, the evidence of your posting history is that you post almost exclusively in 40K sub forums and on GW related threads. If one clicks "filter thread" in this Privateer Press related topic, one can see that your contributions are essentially exclusively negative, almost aggressively so.
Therefore, it seems reasonable to suggest that you're posting here to further some sort of agenda? Even if that agenda is no more complex than "I don't like Warmachine and I'm going to take any opportunity I can to bad mouth it."
This doesn't seem especially reasonable behaviour. I'd imagine just getting on discussing the topics relevant to what you're interested in and leaving the topics that you don't would be the way forward?
Or do you have a heavy investment in PP, and consequently you're the mirror of the people in the GW threads who are frustrated because they feel the company's actions are actually detrimental to their enjoyment of the product? In which case, please enlighten us, as, like many other people, I'm using the new edition as a stepping stone to starting the game, and a reasoned critique of the downsides of playing a PP game would be most informative (as opposed to an angry, unsubstantiated rant, which would be neither useful nor in topic.)
As for your criticisms of them selling out, and how easy it is for companies to anticipate this? I could explain how anything manufactured by contractors can often need to be planned months in advance to fit in with their other jobs. I could explain how any number of sales forecasts will crumble in the face of unprecedented demand, but I'm going to use just 4 (well, 3.5) words, which I'm sure is just one example, but it's the best example I can recall - Tau 6th Editon Update.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
May I? I was the guy who pretty much quit GW for PP. A few years later, I realized they're the same . Yes, Warmachine is objectively the better ruleset, not that that's a high bar to reach. PP company policy is pretty much following Kirby style late-2000s GW: gaking on customers, gaking on retailers, changing rules to drive sales, axing a "specialist game" overnight without so much as a word or explanation to the fanbase, sometimes making models more expensive when switching to a cheaper material, draconian policy on conversions, scratch-builds and 3rd-party models, etc. All the while being defended to the death by their "born again" type followers.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 15:17:58
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Bad form gunslingerpro, bad form.
That was a poor shot at putting words in my mouth, or you just can't read. For your own sake, I hope you are just being petty, as I never implied that PP sabotaged their own product just that they didn't make as many kits as were needed.
Since you got took offense and a side about my remark pertaining to fans, I realize you are not going to listen to any amount of reason or evidence. Which is sad, so I'll just say this for other readers.
Ok, if we're going to talk reason and evidence, the evidence of your posting history is that you post almost exclusively in 40K sub forums and on GW related threads. If one clicks "filter thread" in this Privateer Press related topic, one can see that your contributions are essentially exclusively negative, almost aggressively so.
Therefore, it seems reasonable to suggest that you're posting here to further some sort of agenda? Even if that agenda is no more complex than "I don't like Warmachine and I'm going to take any opportunity I can to bad mouth it."
This doesn't seem especially reasonable behaviour. I'd imagine just getting on discussing the topics relevant to what you're interested in and leaving the topics that you don't would be the way forward?
Or do you have a heavy investment in PP, and consequently you're the mirror of the people in the GW threads who are frustrated because they feel the company's actions are actually detrimental to their enjoyment of the product? In which case, please enlighten us, as, like many other people, I'm using the new edition as a stepping stone to starting the game, and a reasoned critique of the downsides of playing a PP game would be most informative (as opposed to an angry, unsubstantiated rant, which would be neither useful nor in topic.)
As for your criticisms of them selling out, and how easy it is for companies to anticipate this? I could explain how anything manufactured by contractors can often need to be planned months in advance to fit in with their other jobs. I could explain how any number of sales forecasts will crumble in the face of unprecedented demand, but I'm going to use just 4 (well, 3.5) words, which I'm sure is just one example, but it's the best example I can recall - Tau 6th Editon Update.
The tau 6th edition update sold out a week after release, but only the codex experienced supply shortages. And even then, they had more books in a week. Games Workshop made enough, they simply didn't allocate correctly (which admittedly they are known for goofing up on.)
But regardless, Blackfang actually explains my motives better than I believe I could.
One of the largest complaints was that a lot of models in the game were subpar in comparison to other options in faction/mercenaries. So they aren't rebalancing for no reason. Also, the purpose of the rebalance is to give units a niche, a purpose and flavor no other unit can match and exceed.
That was allegedly the point of Mk2 as well and it obviously failed if they're doing it again, focusing again on mostly the same problematic models (or rather, again not focusing on the problematic models), and it's obvious at first glance to anyone with some perspective that they failed again.
+1. Yeah, I'm really skeptical of their rebalancing looking more like shuffling that a great fine tuning. Having seen a few edition shifts and playtests (closed and open), it seems like testers and designers tend to fixate on things they think are problems which results in only the previous or predicted outliers on both extremes getting tuned thoroughly (or even overcompensated for) and everything else coasting through and some of those becoming the new problems, and it seems PP's next edition is falling into that trap. Right there with you.
(Same goes for your experience/realization about jumping on to the PP line. The combination of GW and then PP has made me wary of any new system/company I get involved with and think is great, so I've been generally much more conservative about buying since.)
lord_blackfang wrote: May I? I was the guy who pretty much quit GW for PP. A few years later, I realized they're the same . Yes, Warmachine is objectively the better ruleset, not that that's a high bar to reach. PP company policy is pretty much following Kirby style late-2000s GW: gaking on customers, gaking on retailers, changing rules to drive sales, axing a "specialist game" overnight without so much as a word or explanation to the fanbase, sometimes making models more expensive when switching to a cheaper material, draconian policy on conversions, scratch-builds and 3rd-party models, etc. All the while being defended to the death by their "born again" type followers.
I honestly want to like Privateer Press. Warmachine was my first War game, and I love the setting.
But at the end of the day, Privateer Press are freaking [MOD EDIT - Please find a different way to express yourself - Alpharius] when it comes to business. They have only gotten as far as they have based on Games Workshops disillusioned fanbase.
We called Privateer Press once, way back when we were trying to support their dying community here. We wanted to be able to buy directly from them. You know, give them all of the money, cutting out the middle man and getting product faster. Like a lot of Businesses do.
They flat out refused. Again and again. Why? Because we were a store, not a distributor.
What kind of brain dead monkey in a suit refuses a banna offered to it? So here we go 3 years later with mk3 and how it's going to be streamlined and fix all the mk 2 problems and -
Nope, rework everything game plays the same. Why did we demolosh playstyles, ruin armies, completely rework several Warcasters and label it as a good thing?
Because they don't care. It's honestly how I feel. Nothing you can say will change that, not because I'm stubborn, but because at this point I need to see the change from Privateer Press. And just when I though I could start liking it again, they pull this stuff.
ON TOPIC - I am going to patiently wait and see how this unfolds. Their message concerning the 'stock lasting until the end of the year' is extremely telling of just how little they made. Perhaps they just made enough for a 'test batch.' Then they can say, hey our game is popular, look how well it's doing! And make more. But that's only assuming they see mk3 as potential risk. Which given 40k releases and how many players quit with every release versus new players gett
get in, would make sense.
More likely I believe they simply couldn't afford to produce all of the kits needed to satisfy demand. They are a small company after all.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2016/05/29 17:41:11
I was going to list some of the major removal of playstyle options, but I only got as far as the first card in my faction before giving up in disgust: poor old Baldur1. The guy whose entire shtick is that he can teleport from forest to forest. Well, bad news, buddy, the faction as a whole lost any forest generation that could be useful to you, and the last-resort workaround to getting you into a forest, the Push power attack, was removed from the game entirely. What do you do now, Baldur? Nothing. You do nothing.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 16:15:04
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
I think the new edition looks amazing so far. My planned battle boar spam is less effective, but in turn tons of other things I'd never considered pairing are awesome!
But I'm a minions player, and our minds are still blown about being able to run the two pacts together (and getting access to minions we couldn't field before).
lord_blackfang wrote: I was going to list some of the major removal of playstyle options, but I only got as far as the first card in my faction before giving up in disgust: poor old Baldur1. The guy whose entire shtick is that he can teleport from forest to forest. Well, bad news, buddy, the faction as a whole lost any forest generation that could be useful to you, and the last-resort workaround to getting you into a forest, the Push power attack, was removed from the game entirely. What do you do now, Baldur? Nothing. You do nothing.
I didn't even know about that. Thats messed up. One of my good friends held on to all his circle stuff out of love for the setting. I kinda wondered if he might try and play again, but Baldur was his favorite warlock.
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RiTides wrote: I think the new edition looks amazing so far. My planned battle boar spam is less effective, but in turn tons of other things I'd never considered pairing are awesome!
But I'm a minions player, and our minds are still blown about being able to run the two pacts together (and getting access to minions we couldn't field before).
Yeah, minions and mercs definitely seem like they got the biggest sticks this time around. Which was one of the things I liked.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 16:25:28
RiTides wrote: Wehrkind is a Circle player and likes the changes so far from what I can tell - I'll have to point him to this thread!
That sounds suspiciously open-minded. What you should be doing is foaming at the mouth about how things are OMGBROKEN or OMGUSELESS based on leaks of unknown date in the playtest cycle from a dodgy Russian torrent site. Remember that you should on no account wait two weeks for the final rules or actually try the rules out before freaking out.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2016/05/28 18:03:34
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
So because it's overwhelmingly popular, you're going to pass entirely? Seems logical.
Come along and play Warmachine, 40k, boardgames or anything else! 
. Yes, Warmachine is objectively the better ruleset, not that that's a high bar to reach. 
(and getting access to minions we couldn't field before).
