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Iago40k wrote:
ATM I am working on a spearhead detachment (Cawl, Rangers 2 Arquebusses, Datasmith, Infiltrators, 2x2 Dakkastelans, 2 Neutronagers, 1 Icarus Onager) paired with an Aastra MIlitarum patrol detachment, Lord Commisar and 50 Conscripts. So many points left to use with this dirt cheap conscript screen. Not too sure what to add though

and since i basically I'd have to build 50 conscripts: What models are there that could fit into a nice AdMech army?

If you are made of money ... MECHANICUM TECH-THRALL COVENANT WITH LAS-LOCKS are perfect. Otherwise I am going with either cultists or the 10 dollar 5 guardsman snap fit kit.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Tech-Thrall-Covenant-with-Las-Locks?_requestid=18315298

 Aaranis wrote:
Well, looks like to be competitive you still need to spam/use borderline unfluffy lists or don't use the cool models like the Vanguards. I got to admit that the Vanguards should either have a transport or the return of the Scout deployment to be more effective, mine rarely finish the game alive (I only played games where I had 10 Vanguards though) and some way for them to not get wiped out in one turn would be nice (yeah cover but... I can't keep them indefinitely hidden).

I think I'll just stay out of tournaments and competitive play altogether, doesn't suit me.

Unfortunately the problem for admech is if you run an imperium army there are other units that does most of what admech does better. So why take Admech when I can just take the better units

Take vanguard
If you want bubble wrap IQ acolytes are 48pts for 6 man and 18 wounds
If you want deepfield shooting Tempests scions can deepstrike in and won't spend a few turns getting there

Worse than that if you mix units to get rid of the rediculous 25% HQ tax you end up losing canticles making your army functionally worse so for any admech unit to justify itself it has to be viable without canticles

Which in my head leaves dunecrawlers and maybe chicken walkers (but guard sentinels are only marginally less effective at a cheaper price)

Sorry to my skitarii you won me many battles in 7th but now you are only a side board choice to support other armies

U02dah4 wrote:
Unfortunately the problem for admech is if you run an imperium army there are other units that does most of what admech does better. So why take Admech when I can just take the better units

Take vanguard
If you want bubble wrap IQ acolytes are 48pts for 6 man and 18 wounds
If you want deepfield shooting Tempests scions can deepstrike in and won't spend a few turns getting there

Worse than that if you mix units to get rid of the rediculous 25% HQ tax you end up losing canticles making your army functionally worse so for any admech unit to justify itself it has to be viable without canticles

Which in my head leaves dunecrawlers and maybe chicken walkers (but guard sentinels are only marginally less effective at a cheaper price)

Sorry to my skitarii you won me many battles in 7th but now you are only a side board choice to support other armies

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm going to use other Imperium units too in my army (with a main force of AdMech), but I'm trying to keep it reasonable, the point being I want to run an army of "Mechanicus + Imperial Support" instead of just a mix of Imperial units. I resolved myself not to use Space Marines for exemple, so as to keep the diversity minimal. I'll be having AdMech, Scions and maybe Hellhounds later, my excuse being that we should be able to use the vehicles we build for others.

Yeah until they release our codex (hopefully quickly, not next year please) to fill the holes in our army by adding a decent transport and a cheap HQ we're bound to either spam our Heavy Support or mix with other Imperium units. I just wish everyone would have a TAC list, it would prevent us from having to spam things in order to counter the other spam lists.

Of course they are better units for different roles, and I can understand that a tournament player will use the best options every time he can. However it's kinda sad for the theme of our armies, now I fear we'll have lists consisting of just "Imperium" units instead of "AdMech list" "Astra Militarum list" or "Adepta Sororitas list". It just saddens me to see the fluff side of the game set aside because of the new choice of units we have access to without restrictions.

I'm happy to be able to use Scions or Hellhounds without a specific formation like in 7th, but I'll keep them complementary to the bulk of my army, I still love the visual impact of 30-40 Skitarii troopers on the field personnaly, and I still want them to be the headliner of the show if you see what I mean

Just interested in how you kept your conscripts in play at all. Seems like they are all wiped by end of turn 3 at the latest...

Pedroig wrote:
Just interested in how you kept your conscripts in play at all. Seems like they are all wiped by end of turn 3 at the latest...

Which is what they do. Tie up units and screen out charges. For almost no point investment.

I refuse to sully my Metalica army with non-AdMech forces though, so I won't be doing any of that sort of stuff.

Look it at it this way, without some sort of leadership buff, those conscripts will get torn up by a single Icarus Array, Stormraven, TAC Razorback, or Def Pred, etc. Losing 7+ models in the shooting phase alone, plus 3-4 more almost guaranteed in the morale phase, that's with no CC.

Every list has "throw away points" either by design or by "tax". Since we have no Transport options, we'll almost always be going second...

I'm the same way with my Ryboth "lost" forces, except for the Knight House that was with them, they haven't been in contact with the rest of the Imperium for a while, and considering the Forge was under "investigation" by both the Imperium and Mechanicum, they find it a tad hard to make friends...

Expensive to buy... but I plan on using my 30k covenant adsecularis with las-locks as conscripts.

Pedroig wrote:
Look it at it this way, without some sort of leadership buff, those conscripts will get torn up by a single Icarus Array, Stormraven, TAC Razorback, or Def Pred, etc. Losing 7+ models in the shooting phase alone, plus 3-4 more almost guaranteed in the morale phase, that's with no CC.

Lord Commissar, 55 pts, mandatory HQ unit, max loose for a leadership test is 1 model.

Iago40k wrote:

Pedroig wrote:
Look it at it this way, without some sort of leadership buff, those conscripts will get torn up by a single Icarus Array, Stormraven, TAC Razorback, or Def Pred, etc. Losing 7+ models in the shooting phase alone, plus 3-4 more almost guaranteed in the morale phase, that's with no CC.

Lord Commissar, 55 pts, mandatory HQ unit, max loose for a leadership test is 1 model.

And yet, our cyborgs who have literally no capacity for fear can't be expected to weather a round of shooting.

Good job, playtesters.

Not in Woofy's list though:

BATTALION
20x3 Conscripts
150+50+50 Celestine
20x5 Primaris
20x5 Primaris
Greyfax

I find this conscript bubble for admech simply not worth it, especially if you haven't got the models already. We don't know what is coming in the codes, and I find it incredible hyperbole to suggest they are mandatory.

What would an admech player do AGAINST conscripts? I, for one, would ignore them for at least 2 rounds. They provide no one any cover from my shooting, don't move fast enough to even threaten their rather piddly shooting, and take up tremendous space from the opponent cause you can't move thru your own models.

And that's what all shooting armies do. I certainly won't dedicate 10% of my list to a unit that every guard, tau, admech, sisters, marine, Necron, eldar, and dark eldar shooty list would (and should) ignore.



On a different note, I'm also reconsidering some paradigms we've talked ourselves into. Against flyers, specifically. The icarus onager does do well, and independently to boot. However, as my meta likes to include stormraven spam, I decided to crunch some numbers.

If both are in range of a TPD or Cawl, Against t7, 3+ flyers, the neutron imager does pretty much the exact same damage on average, with a much higher, and more likely, top out. Slightly less if supersonic. This includes stormravens and all craftoworld eldar. And even against t6 4+ vehicles, the icarus averages only 2 more wounds. Less against d eldar and their nightshields.



Of interesting note, I decided to run every unit I could think of. Surprisingly, if you are looking for straight damage output, in the reroll bubble...

3 Destroyers with oc plasma do almost more damage, on average, than 2 icarus onagers with rerolls against t7, 3+ flyers (8.7 vs 4.4) . Destroyers in a crawl bubble are actually put most effective, point for point, damage dealer to the rhino/chimera/razorbaxk/Stormraven/valkyrie/wave serpant chassis.

Some food for thought. (Also with an avergae of 10.5 shots, you are likely to get two rounds of shooting in before a gets hot nails one)


pardon all the edits. Mobile autocorrect has produced a significant amount of interesting word changes

Unfortunately the destroyers cost a bomb and are the first thing to die so however good their damage output you have to recoup it in one turn unless you wish to stick them in a bastion

U02dah4 wrote:
Unfortunately the destroyers cost a bomb and are the first thing to die so however good their damage output you have to recoup it in one turn unless you wish to stick them in a bastion

Not an awful idea. The Firestorm Redoubt seems pretty decent on paper.

Wulfey wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
ATM I am working on a spearhead detachment (Cawl, Rangers 2 Arquebusses, Datasmith, Infiltrators, 2x2 Dakkastelans, 2 Neutronagers, 1 Icarus Onager) paired with an Aastra MIlitarum patrol detachment, Lord Commisar and 50 Conscripts. So many points left to use with this dirt cheap conscript screen. Not too sure what to add though

and since i basically I'd have to build 50 conscripts: What models are there that could fit into a nice AdMech army?

If you are made of money ... MECHANICUM TECH-THRALL COVENANT WITH LAS-LOCKS are perfect. Otherwise I am going with either cultists or the 10 dollar 5 guardsman snap fit kit.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Tech-Thrall-Covenant-with-Las-Locks?_requestid=18315298

Thats nice and all, but people want to play games now, not when the new IA comes out, whenever that is

 WrentheFaceless wrote:

Wulfey wrote:

Iago40k wrote:
ATM I am working on a spearhead detachment (Cawl, Rangers 2 Arquebusses, Datasmith, Infiltrators, 2x2 Dakkastelans, 2 Neutronagers, 1 Icarus Onager) paired with an Aastra MIlitarum patrol detachment, Lord Commisar and 50 Conscripts. So many points left to use with this dirt cheap conscript screen. Not too sure what to add though

and since i basically I'd have to build 50 conscripts: What models are there that could fit into a nice AdMech army?

If you are made of money ... MECHANICUM TECH-THRALL COVENANT WITH LAS-LOCKS are perfect. Otherwise I am going with either cultists or the 10 dollar 5 guardsman snap fit kit.

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/en-NO/Tech-Thrall-Covenant-with-Las-Locks?_requestid=18315298

Thats nice and all, but people want to play games now, not when the new IA comes out, whenever that is

I think he implied them as count-as Conscripts.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Unfortunately the destroyers cost a bomb and are the first thing to die so however good their damage output you have to recoup it in one turn unless you wish to stick them in a bastion

Not an awful idea. The Firestorm Redoubt seems pretty decent on paper.

It's something that needs field testing. the difficulty I see at that points levels is would you be better off with a knight

Pedroig wrote:
Not in Woofy's list though:

BATTALION
20x3 Conscripts
150+50+50 Celestine
20x5 Primaris
20x5 Primaris
Greyfax

I was running some of those things as silly stuff to test the models. I liked the Primaris marines and I thought they were cool so I ran them. If WAAC, they should be replaced by conscripts full stop. Greyfax is also a favorite model of mine and I think she was justified .... but the guy who took first didn't run Greyfax. Also, the second Gemini is not WAAC, you only need 1. EDIT: the big problems were that my vanguard couldn't function as a decent screen or as decent horde firepower and that my Phosphor bots and Ballistari didn't do anything that my Onagers couldn't do better. I didn't even run any of my 6 fully magnetized kataphrons that I really like because I knew they were ~220 points of autocannon bait that I could never keep alive if I went second.

EDIT2: to the above about plasma destroyers, YES, point for point they are the highest damage output unit in the admech list when overcharged and full rerolled. But they are such bait. If you get first turn, yeah, okay, you may alpha strike really nice. I got first turn 1 time out of 3 last Saturday even with ITC's +1 rule and if you don't have that ...

U02dah4 wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

U02dah4 wrote:
Unfortunately the destroyers cost a bomb and are the first thing to die so however good their damage output you have to recoup it in one turn unless you wish to stick them in a bastion

Not an awful idea. The Firestorm Redoubt seems pretty decent on paper.

It's something that needs field testing. the difficulty I see at that points levels is would you be better off with a knight

It is just an option that is good to consider. Not every format will allow Knights. My current League for instance does not allow LoW. So, having a way to protect Kataphrons (upping durability) while allowing them to do what they do best (shoot OC Plasma) seems decent in those instances when a Knight is a no-go and I don't feel like taking the obvious choices.

For all of the people playing conscripts: As pure bubble wrap, I can see that working out well. But what about grabbing and holding objectives? (Or is our strategy just to table everyone every time?)

Also, in terms of metagame, I am sensing that horde is becoming the norm and everyone will over-prep for it.

Suzuteo wrote:

Also, in terms of metagame, I am sensing that horde is becoming the norm and everyone will over-prep for it.

I hope so, because that puts us at a slight advantage. We don't go horde (generally).

On a side note, if anyone wants to see the part of my army that is painted I opened up a thread that I'll update as I advance in my painting
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730416.page

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

Iago40k wrote:

Pedroig wrote:
Look it at it this way, without some sort of leadership buff, those conscripts will get torn up by a single Icarus Array, Stormraven, TAC Razorback, or Def Pred, etc. Losing 7+ models in the shooting phase alone, plus 3-4 more almost guaranteed in the morale phase, that's with no CC.

Lord Commissar, 55 pts, mandatory HQ unit, max loose for a leadership test is 1 model.

And yet, our cyborgs who have literally no capacity for fear can't be expected to weather a round of shooting.

Good job, playtesters.

Honestly, trying to fit three units of 20 Conscripts into a 6" bubble around the Lord Commissar is going to do terrible things to your mobility. Unless we're really willing to commit to this table-or-nothing mentality, this is fine, but sometimes, you have to play a running battle.

 gally912 wrote:
I find this conscript bubble for admech simply not worth it, especially if you haven't got the models already. We don't know what is coming in the codes, and I find it incredible hyperbole to suggest they are mandatory.

What would an admech player do AGAINST conscripts? I, for one, would ignore them for at least 2 rounds. They provide no one any cover from my shooting, don't move fast enough to even threaten their rather piddly shooting, and take up tremendous space from the opponent cause you can't move thru your own models.

And that's what all shooting armies do. I certainly won't dedicate 10% of my list to a unit that every guard, tau, admech, sisters, marine, Necron, eldar, and dark eldar shooty list would (and should) ignore.

Of interesting note, I decided to run every unit I could think of. Surprisingly, if you are looking for straight damage output, in the reroll bubble...

3 Destroyers with oc plasma do almost more damage, on average, than 2 icarus onagers with rerolls against t7, 3+ flyers (8.7 vs 4.4) . Destroyers in a crawl bubble are actually put most effective, point for point, damage dealer to the rhino/chimera/razorbaxk/Stormraven/valkyrie/wave serpant chassis.

Some food for thought. (Also with an avergae of 10.5 shots, you are likely to get two rounds of shooting in before a gets hot nails one)

I agree. But I believe the others are using Conscripts to physically block shooting. Icarus and Neutron Crawlers have 48" range, so as long as your Conscript physically occupies the space that enemies would stand, you deny them the ability to shoot you for the one or two turns it takes to remove them. (The downside is that it also blocks you from moving through this area, meaning you're screwed if you have to move around the board.)

Ugh... I caught some flak a few pages back for pointing out that OC Plasma Destroyers pretty much are the hardest hitting unit we have on a point-for-point basis.

 Aaranis wrote:
On a side note, if anyone wants to see the part of my army that is painted I opened up a thread that I'll update as I advance in my painting
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730416.page

Nice. I am actually doing a similar paint scheme, only with burnt orange instead of yellow and more silver over brass/gold.

Suzuteo wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
On a side note, if anyone wants to see the part of my army that is painted I opened up a thread that I'll update as I advance in my painting
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730416.page

Nice. I am actually doing a similar paint scheme, only with burnt orange instead of yellow and more silver over brass/gold.

The pics don't render full justice to my colours, the blue is actually covered with Drakenhof Nightshade on the coats so it looks more nighty, and the yellow is more of an ochre (Tau Light Ochre actually). Do you have pics of yours yet ?

 Aaranis wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

 Aaranis wrote:
On a side note, if anyone wants to see the part of my army that is painted I opened up a thread that I'll update as I advance in my painting
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/730416.page

Nice. I am actually doing a similar paint scheme, only with burnt orange instead of yellow and more silver over brass/gold.

The pics don't render full justice to my colours, the blue is actually covered with Drakenhof Nightshade on the coats so it looks more nighty, and the yellow is more of an ochre (Tau Light Ochre actually). Do you have pics of yours yet ?

Caledor Sky with Drakenhof Nightshade?

No, but when I do, I will borrow a real camera rather than use my crappy phone to take pictures. Haha.

Suzuteo wrote:

Honestly, trying to fit three units of 20 Conscripts into a 6" bubble around the Lord Commissar is going to do terrible things to your mobility. Unless we're really willing to commit to this table-or-nothing mentality, this is fine, but sometimes, you have to play a running battle.

Yeah its a problem. Conscripts are a great screen unit but we already have great problems to roam around the board. In my experience so far it was either table the opponent or loose because of maelstrom. Thats why I am still trying 2 units of infiltrators and vanguard units. The lack of mobility is the main issue for AdMech if playing Artillery heavy (which is what we have to do).

Iago40k wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:

Honestly, trying to fit three units of 20 Conscripts into a 6" bubble around the Lord Commissar is going to do terrible things to your mobility. Unless we're really willing to commit to this table-or-nothing mentality, this is fine, but sometimes, you have to play a running battle.

Yeah its a problem. Conscripts are a great screen unit but we already have great problems to roam around the board. In my experience so far it was either table the opponent or loose because of maelstrom. Thats why I am still trying 2 units of infiltrators and vanguard units. The lack of mobility is the main issue for AdMech if playing Artillery heavy (which is what we have to do).

Exactly. Right now, I have been thinking about doing the Crawler concept, only with Dragoons:

Spearhead Detachment - 1050

HQ - 250
1x Belisarius Cawl

Heavy Support - 800
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Neutron Laser
1x Onager Dunecrawler - Icarus Array

Outrider Detachment - 479

HQ - 139
1x Tech-Priest Dominus - Volkite Blaster, Phosphor Serpenta

Fast Attack - 340
1x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance
1x Sydonian Dragoon - Taser Lance

Lord of War - 466
Knight Warden - Reaper Chainsword, Avenger Gatling Cannon, Heavy Flamer, Heavy Stubber

Total: 1995 points
5 Command Points

The plan is basically a walking wall of death. The Dragoons are mediocre in terms of damage, but they are mobile, and as others have pointed out, with Shroudpsalm and Incense Cloud, they are surprisingly durable for their cost. Their job is to grab objectives, screen the Crawlers, and tie down anything that shoots better than it fights. Warden stands behind the Dragoons and otherwise rounds out the army, complementing the Icarus Crawlers to take out hordes; I originally intended for this to be 3 Kastelans and a Datasmith, but I was worried about durability. (On second thought, dropping the Serpenta and yet another Dragoon would let me run RFBC Crusader instead.)

I still haven't found a good place for the Sydonians. The Balistarii are, compared to Neutronagers, pure crap. The Dragoons lost so much since any unit can jump out of CC which was their main purpose in 7th: jump into Khorne Dogs and keep them in fight for the rest of the game. Their output is just so bad. But I guess they can have a i your list.
Why no Kastelans though? I like Onager spam but I feel you need the bots for the sheer volume of shots against any kind of horde army.

Iago40k wrote:
I still haven't found a good place for the Sydonians. The Balistarii are, compared to Neutronagers, pure crap. The Dragoons lost so much since any unit can jump out of CC which was their main purpose in 7th: jump into Khorne Dogs and keep them in fight for the rest of the game. Their output is just so bad. But I guess they can have a i your list.
Why no Kastelans though? I like Onager spam but I feel you need the bots for the sheer volume of shots against any kind of horde army.

Right, but the unit that falls back cannot shoot that turn, so mission accomplished. (I have no delusions, those Dragoons will die, but they will die well.)

As stated on the previous page, the idea is to drop everything that cannot move-and-shoot. Icarus and the Warden or Crusader fulfill the anti-horde role of the Kastelans in this list. (To be honest, I am not 100% convinced of the idea, but it does have its appeal.)

Suzuteo wrote:


As stated on the previous page, the idea is to drop everything that cannot move-and-shoot. Icarus and the Warden or Crusader fulfill the anti-horde role of the Kastelans in this list. (To be honest, I am not 100% convinced of the idea, but it does have its appeal.)

Kastelans are pretty badass even after moving. With Cawl in the background 5+ and rerolls is still good.. Plus most of your opponents will try to kill them over your Onager. I do see your point though.

Iago40k wrote:

Suzuteo wrote:


As stated on the previous page, the idea is to drop everything that cannot move-and-shoot. Icarus and the Warden or Crusader fulfill the anti-horde role of the Kastelans in this list. (To be honest, I am not 100% convinced of the idea, but it does have its appeal.)

Kastelans are pretty badass even after moving. With Cawl in the background 5+ and rerolls is still good.. Plus most of your opponents will try to kill them over your Onager. I do see your point though.

I agree, and I probably will continue running 3 Neutron, 1 Icarus, and 1x2 Kastelans. But the concept of 6 Crawlers is interesting.