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Literally know nothing about the games mechanics or anything - I just like rat armies. Whats the story behind the skavens? I know they live underground and stuff - are they oppressed? Are they straight evil? Do they have some elite units are are they just solely a horde army?

They're pretty evil. Through most of their history they've been very secretive and most others think they are a myth, though that seems to be changing.

They're kind of... mutated rats. They have a slave-driven, steam-punk society underground and they hoard warpstone (like magic radioactive rocks.. comic book style).

They worship a diety called the Horned Rat. I'm sure someone can tell you a lot more.

Interesting. The hoarders of warp-stone.

Well the story of how skaven came about is kinda unknown. It happened when a city of the empire (don't remember the name) got sick and infested with rats, the rats ate all the food and stuff and then some stuff happened, big temple was built, secret person came around and finished the temple, it all went to poo. Big rats emerged.

Skaven are not oppressed they thrive in their tunnels (its called the under empire for a reason lol) and have the largest population of any other race in the warhammer world.
Their society is based on back stabbing and sabotage. They have wizards who are addicted to warpstone, they throw slaves into battle knowing they will die.

As for elite models not really. Stormvermin are their "elite" choice and are bodyguards of the grey seers and council of 13 and lots of the warlords but compared to other stuff they aren't super elite.

Skaven have kickass war machines, and mutated monsters (hellpit I'm talking to you)

They are a cool army but be prepared to paint up millions of rats. Their fluff matches their play style to the T

Skaven are pretty bad ass looking hord army.
Some of their assasins look cool

 chiefbigredman wrote:

Skaven have kickass war machines, and mutated monsters (hellpit I'm talking to you)

Dont forget the constiant exploding warmarchines and weapons teams

i had a game where 5/5 of my teams/WLC misfired on the same turn. was hilarious.

 Desubot wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:

Skaven have kickass war machines, and mutated monsters (hellpit I'm talking to you)

Dont forget the constiant exploding warmarchines and weapons teams

i had a game where 5/5 of my teams/WLC misfired on the same turn. was hilarious.

YES exploding stuff is actually so funny.
I think only skaven players enjoy when their war machines and weapon teams explode. I think its so perfect and sometimes it works out in good ways haha

 chiefbigredman wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 chiefbigredman wrote:

Skaven have kickass war machines, and mutated monsters (hellpit I'm talking to you)

Dont forget the constiant exploding warmarchines and weapons teams

i had a game where 5/5 of my teams/WLC misfired on the same turn. was hilarious.

YES exploding stuff is actually so funny.
I think only skaven players enjoy when their war machines and weapon teams explode. I think its so perfect and sometimes it works out in good ways haha

Had a WLC target a big bat dragon thingy that was recking my face. misfired, scattered towards a VERY juicy unit with his HQ in it. then promptly came short by an inch.

oh you wacky engineers.

Assuming you at least play 40k from your avatar incoming Dorian copypasta:

Let's start with the standard 40k fallacies.

You can't netlist fantasy to anywhere near the extend you can in 40k. Fantasy is a game about movement & positioning. About feigns, traps & setting up for 3 turns from now. You cannot just say "give me a basic list" because there isn't one.

Let me put it this way. I have had a 120 point unit of skeletons destroy a 400 point unit of dragon princes (elite heavy cavalry) in ONE round of combat. I sacrificed a unit of 40 point zombie dogs to draw these guys out of formation. Then I charged them in the flank. This means I have a STATIC (before any attacks) combat resolution of 6. I charged for +1, in the flank for +1, with 3 extra ranks of troops for +3 and a banner for an additional +1. He had a static resolution of +1 for a banner. He had 2 elves in base contact meaning those only 2 could fight (you don't get supporting attacks to the flank or rear). He had to do 5 wounds with 4 elf attacks & 2 horse attacks just to NOT LOSE that combat against a unit less than 1/3 of his point cost. He only killed 2, I got lucky & killed one. He lost combat by 4, took a break test at -4ld and ran. I rolled high & caught up with him destroying the unit.

The moral of that story is WHAT you take doesn't matter nearly as much as HOW you use it. That is step one of fantasy, it is NOT 40k don't go in with that mindset.

That said here are some things you will need:
A General - This will automatically be the character with the highest Ld, usually a lord. He allows any unit within 12" to use his Ld instead of their own.
A BSB - This will be a hero level character, the BSB FORCES (note FORCES not ALLOWS) any friendly unit to reroll any failed Ld test. This may also be your general but I don't recommend putting so many eggs in one basket.
A Wizard - Generally anything above 1200 you want a lvl 3 or 4. This may also be your general but I don't recommend putting so many eggs in one basket.

Things to look into:
A Bunker: Generally a tough unit or a unit that can sit back. Essentially they stay out of harms way & act as extra shooting wounds for your mage.
An Anvil: This will usually be a combat block that is durable or hard to break. You get this into combat in order to hold you enemy in place so you can deliver....
A Hammer: This will be a harder hitting but less durable combat unit. Think knights. They come in & hit the flank of whatever i fighting your anvil. This is USUALLY enough to win you the combat pretty heavily.
Shooting: Used to soften up enemy units before combat, often these double as bunkers. Do not expect to delete units with pure shooting like in 40k unless you're spamming heavy shooting or shooting at...
Chaff: Weak cheap fast & disposable. The purpose of this unit is to screen your other units & bloack / redirect / bait charges. This is what my zombie dogs were in the above story.


Skaven: You need to love how these models look, love not like. While many armies field units in 10-40 Skaven will almost never field a unit BELOW 30.

Backstory: There was a plagued empire city. This city was building a tower. A strange man showed up and offered to help finish the tower if he could add his own designs. Town agreed & tower was finished with a great brass bell at the top. The bell rung 13 times and there was a big earthquake followed by a surge of mutated rat men (skaven) which killed the humans, this became skavenblight. They fought amongst themselves for a while until they elected a council of 12 leaders (13th seat is for the horned rat himself, their god). Any leader can be challenged at any time. They have a saying "All roads lead to skavenblight" Which is their basic reply when somebody calls them out on treachery basically a "Yeah, but you should've seen it coming". If fact they are the ONLY army in the game capable of shooting into a combat involving their own units (though said units must be slaves).

Do they line underground: Mostly yes. Skavenblight is above ground but located in a swamp that virtually nobody can survive, even without the skaven.

Are they oppressed: Nope. The empire flat out denies they exist. Though they do self-oppress. They are extremely cut throat & treacherous. Think dark eldar but minus any of the class. Assasination, blackmail, bribery, thievery, these are all VERY common & a skaven rarely lives long.

Elite units: Not really, they have warmachines & some big monsters but even their "elite" troops, the stormvermin, cost less than a single elf spearman. This is the epitome of a horde army, they get an additional bonus for having more ranks than their opponent.

Yes I agree with the above^ you have to love the models and be dedicated to the army. Its a super horde horde haha

Just a FYI here is what 6500 points of skaven looks like (more if I brought more characters, the top shelf is kinda stuffed tho lol)

They are evil little sociopathic, sycophantic, murderous little mad scientists. Oh, also compulsive liars and if they don't eat often enough, will actually catabolize themselves to death, which is why they often eat the dead from battle (as battle is very taxing).

My best friend plays them and they are so wonderfully and perfectly hateable when compared to my haughty and majestic elves.

Can I hijack this thread for a moment? Thanks

Most people at my club plays Fantasy at the moment, and while I'm having fun with my 40K Kill Team Campaign, I'd like to try something... Different.

Point is, I've been looking at Skaven too, as I really like 1) Visually unique and impressive armies, and the horde of rats supported by large machines look really awesome, 2) I really like randomness and sillyness (Ork player me), 3) I LOVE robust mechanical stuff and lastly, 4) I can't help but love those evil factions who are so iredeemably evil you can't help but laugh manically, as they get slaughtered to a rat... Dark Eldar and Tyranids are that for 40K, Skaven are for Fantasy

My question being (and this is why my post actually has something to do with the OP's question), if I wanted to make a small 1000 pt force for starters, how would you think I should start out? What boxes would be good to get, which can wait? I especially want to know if it makes sense to get the Screaming Bell, not to use it (I've heard it's best at 3000 pt), but to get all them shiny additional models!

As a dwarf player, I cannot approve skaven.
As a real person, I think they are the most enjoyable army to play.
It's just so funny when your doomwheel kills your own dudes.

 The Wise Dane wrote:


My question being (and this is why my post actually has something to do with the OP's question), if I wanted to make a small 1000 pt force for starters, how would you think I should start out? What boxes would be good to get, which can wait? I especially want to know if it makes sense to get the Screaming Bell, not to use it (I've heard it's best at 3000 pt), but to get all them shiny additional models!

Good / amazaballs / cheap / ultra competitive ?
What are you looking to get out of this army? and what kinda shiny do you like?


Overall island of blood is very good if you can split it with some one. or just second hand them online.

Slave blocks tend to be important. i think it was like 100 skaven bodies per 1000 points??

Then you needa figure out your beater and almost all of ours is fun. personally i love the doomwheel, charging up flank and wrecking face.

 Desubot wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:


My question being (and this is why my post actually has something to do with the OP's question), if I wanted to make a small 1000 pt force for starters, how would you think I should start out? What boxes would be good to get, which can wait? I especially want to know if it makes sense to get the Screaming Bell, not to use it (I've heard it's best at 3000 pt), but to get all them shiny additional models!

Good / amazaballs / cheap / ultra competitive ?
What are you looking to get out of this army? and what kinda shiny do you like?


Overall island of blood is very good if you can split it with some one. or just second hand them online.

Slave blocks tend to be important. i think it was like 100 skaven bodies per 1000 points??

Then you needa figure out your beater and almost all of ours is fun. personally i love the doomwheel, charging up flank and wrecking face.

Fun but not useless. I will not have anything that might be considered too cheesy, as I've heard about the current state of Skaven.

I want a somewhat cheap army with Clan Rats, mechanical stuff, a bit mobility wouldn't hurt, and not too many Slaves... I like anything Skyre, and a bit Pestillens. I don't really like Eshin much, and Moulder I can give or take.

The DOOMWHEEL (sorry, just came from 1D4chan) looks freaking brilliant and sounds fun, and I like the big ones like the Screaming Bell and the Plague Furnace, but I guess that won't be a thing. The rest... Well, the only ones I really don't like the look of is Rat Ogres and other, similarly goofy models.

Well Plauge Furnace with a boat load of plauge monks are pretty good. though IIRC they are frenzed so gotta watch your placement.

go DOOMWHEELS and WLC WLC are your bread and butter long range.

If you wana do silly clan rats with fun equipments then island of blood really work out with the flamer and mortar and a engineer.

Also if you do get the doomwheel make sure to save the giant rats for giant rat units. they help redirect and stuff.

 Desubot wrote:
Well Plauge Furnace with a boat load of plauge monks are pretty good. though IIRC they are frenzed so gotta watch your placement.

go DOOMWHEELS and WLC WLC are your bread and butter long range.

If you wana do silly clan rats with fun equipments then island of blood really work out with the flamer and mortar and a engineer.

Also if you do get the doomwheel make sure to save the giant rats for giant rat units. they help redirect and stuff.

I've heard that you shouldn't buy the GW Giant Rats - You can get them just as well from basically all other kits

So the WLC... Looks cool. Works like the Cannons of the Empire, or are there a difference?

Also, what general would you recommend?

Its why i said pull em from the doomwheel
also you dont really need that many.

the WLC shoots explods as a small template where it lands
Roll 1 artillery for distance then second for bounce plus Strength. if it rolls a MF on the first then it ether can asplod or scatter off wildly into a LARGE blast with ST10 at i think 4d6 distance. IIRC

I prefer my grey seer as a overall well rounder but the warlord can be nice in a punchy list. dont forget a chieftain with a BSB very imporant.

 chiefbigredman wrote:
Yes I agree with the above^ you have to love the models and be dedicated to the army. Its a super horde horde haha

Just a FYI here is what 6500 points of skaven looks like (more if I brought more characters, the top shelf is kinda stuffed tho lol)

Spoiler:

Dude, that's what I'm talking about!!

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
Assuming you at least play 40k from your avatar incoming Dorian copypasta:

Let's start with the standard 40k fallacies.

You can't netlist fantasy to anywhere near the extend you can in 40k. Fantasy is a game about movement & positioning. About feigns, traps & setting up for 3 turns from now. You cannot just say "give me a basic list" because there isn't one.

Let me put it this way. I have had a 120 point unit of skeletons destroy a 400 point unit of dragon princes (elite heavy cavalry) in ONE round of combat. I sacrificed a unit of 40 point zombie dogs to draw these guys out of formation. Then I charged them in the flank. This means I have a STATIC (before any attacks) combat resolution of 6. I charged for +1, in the flank for +1, with 3 extra ranks of troops for +3 and a banner for an additional +1. He had a static resolution of +1 for a banner. He had 2 elves in base contact meaning those only 2 could fight (you don't get supporting attacks to the flank or rear). He had to do 5 wounds with 4 elf attacks & 2 horse attacks just to NOT LOSE that combat against a unit less than 1/3 of his point cost. He only killed 2, I got lucky & killed one. He lost combat by 4, took a break test at -4ld and ran. I rolled high & caught up with him destroying the unit.

The moral of that story is WHAT you take doesn't matter nearly as much as HOW you use it. That is step one of fantasy, it is NOT 40k don't go in with that mindset.

That said here are some things you will need:
A General - This will automatically be the character with the highest Ld, usually a lord. He allows any unit within 12" to use his Ld instead of their own.
A BSB - This will be a hero level character, the BSB FORCES (note FORCES not ALLOWS) any friendly unit to reroll any failed Ld test. This may also be your general but I don't recommend putting so many eggs in one basket.
A Wizard - Generally anything above 1200 you want a lvl 3 or 4. This may also be your general but I don't recommend putting so many eggs in one basket.

Things to look into:
A Bunker: Generally a tough unit or a unit that can sit back. Essentially they stay out of harms way & act as extra shooting wounds for your mage.
An Anvil: This will usually be a combat block that is durable or hard to break. You get this into combat in order to hold you enemy in place so you can deliver....
A Hammer: This will be a harder hitting but less durable combat unit. Think knights. They come in & hit the flank of whatever i fighting your anvil. This is USUALLY enough to win you the combat pretty heavily.
Shooting: Used to soften up enemy units before combat, often these double as bunkers. Do not expect to delete units with pure shooting like in 40k unless you're spamming heavy shooting or shooting at...
Chaff: Weak cheap fast & disposable. The purpose of this unit is to screen your other units & bloack / redirect / bait charges. This is what my zombie dogs were in the above story.


Skaven: You need to love how these models look, love not like. While many armies field units in 10-40 Skaven will almost never field a unit BELOW 30.

Backstory: There was a plagued empire city. This city was building a tower. A strange man showed up and offered to help finish the tower if he could add his own designs. Town agreed & tower was finished with a great brass bell at the top. The bell rung 13 times and there was a big earthquake followed by a surge of mutated rat men (skaven) which killed the humans, this became skavenblight. They fought amongst themselves for a while until they elected a council of 12 leaders (13th seat is for the horned rat himself, their god). Any leader can be challenged at any time. They have a saying "All roads lead to skavenblight" Which is their basic reply when somebody calls them out on treachery basically a "Yeah, but you should've seen it coming". If fact they are the ONLY army in the game capable of shooting into a combat involving their own units (though said units must be slaves).

Do they line underground: Mostly yes. Skavenblight is above ground but located in a swamp that virtually nobody can survive, even without the skaven.

Are they oppressed: Nope. The empire flat out denies they exist. Though they do self-oppress. They are extremely cut throat & treacherous. Think dark eldar but minus any of the class. Assasination, blackmail, bribery, thievery, these are all VERY common & a skaven rarely lives long.

Elite units: Not really, they have warmachines & some big monsters but even their "elite" troops, the stormvermin, cost less than a single elf spearman. This is the epitome of a horde army, they get an additional bonus for having more ranks than their opponent.

History sounds excellent. You pegged me right, I'm a 40k player and the elements of strategy are really intriguing to me. 40k imo is 50% army construction - the rest is luck with maybe a little strategy (really just knowing what things need to die in what order) Fantasy sounds awesome. Though I have heard magic is a little bit overpowered, how do the skavens seers hold up against casters on giant dragons and such?

The dragon don't mean gak. What matters is your wizard level & the lores you can take.

Skaven have lvl1,2&4. Almost always you want a lvl 4 grey seer. You get a bonus to cast = to your wizard level. This is also the number of spells you know.

As for lores you have the option of Plague or Ruin. Both work well but do different things. I usually run 2 &1 while I take the dreaded 13th spell as my final one.

Skaven magic is some of the best in the game, but it can also backfire. The dread 13th is one of the single best unit deleters bu at the same time is difficult to cast.

Skaven definitely do not hurt for magic and can hold their own against almost anyone else.

As for magic it is't overpowered so much as it can create bad matchups. Nobody wants to face a pie plate moving 3x and artillery die in inches, everyone it passes over must take an Init test or die. Especially if your lizardmen with your fabulous I1. But those spells are hard to cast & you do have a chance to stop them. The ones skaven fear are wind of undeath (d6 Str3/r hits per rank) out of lore of vampires and The dwellers below (Str test or die) out of lore of life.

 Shas'O Dorian wrote:
The dragon don't mean gak. What matters is your wizard level & the lores you can take.

Skaven have lvl1,2&4. Almost always you want a lvl 4 grey seer. You get a bonus to cast = to your wizard level. This is also the number of spells you know.

As for lores you have the option of Plague or Ruin. Both work well but do different things. I usually run 2 &1 while I take the dreaded 13th spell as my final one.

Skaven magic is some of the best in the game, but it can also backfire. The dread 13th is one of the single best unit deleters bu at the same time is difficult to cast.

Skaven definitely do not hurt for magic and can hold their own against almost anyone else.

As for magic it is't overpowered so much as it can create bad matchups. Nobody wants to face a pie plate moving 3x and artillery die in inches, everyone it passes over must take an Init test or die. Especially if your lizardmen with your fabulous I1. But those spells are hard to cast & you do have a chance to stop them. The ones skaven fear are wind of undeath (d6 Str3/r hits per rank) out of lore of vampires and The dwellers below (Str test or die) out of lore of life.

Wait which one is the pieplate that moves?

Also the vampire one that makes you age and kills on 6s then 5s and so on is annoying too

Also speaking of vampires. god i hate that bat dragon thing. that shrek thing is on unmodified ld right? did i miss an faq?

I was refferencing any number of boostable test-or-die magic vortex spells. Most notable Purple "Fun" and Pit of Shades.

While the things you mention are annoying my issue with Test-or-die is that it unfairly punishes certain armies. I mean Init is a stat that is rarely above 3 and many armies have 1's & 2's across the board.

Okay, so looking at what we've got at a 1000 pt level, I'm thinking of a Cheiftain as General (Because Lords ain't takeable at 1000 pt, as far as I understand), with one, maybe two Warlock Engineers to back up with Warp Lightning. For that, the Battalion and the Skaven half of Island of Blood wouldn't hurt, which will end up with 80 Clan Rats/Slaves, 40 Stormvermin, 40 Plague Monks, 6 or so Giant Rats, 4 Rat Ogres, some Weapon Teams.... That gotta be sufficient for both me and Xenomancer!

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Okay, so looking at what we've got at a 1000 pt level, I'm thinking of a Cheiftain as General (Because Lords ain't takeable at 1000 pt, as far as I understand), with one, maybe two Warlock Engineers to back up with Warp Lightning. For that, the Battalion and the Skaven half of Island of Blood wouldn't hurt, which will end up with 80 Clan Rats/Slaves, 40 Stormvermin, 40 Plague Monks, 6 or so Giant Rats, 4 Rat Ogres, some Weapon Teams.... That gotta be sufficient for both me and Xenomancer!

I need some assassins inside those SV.

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Okay, so looking at what we've got at a 1000 pt level, I'm thinking of a Cheiftain as General (Because Lords ain't takeable at 1000 pt, as far as I understand), with one, maybe two Warlock Engineers to back up with Warp Lightning. For that, the Battalion and the Skaven half of Island of Blood wouldn't hurt, which will end up with 80 Clan Rats/Slaves, 40 Stormvermin, 40 Plague Monks, 6 or so Giant Rats, 4 Rat Ogres, some Weapon Teams.... That gotta be sufficient for both me and Xenomancer!

If there's a rule that states you can't take Lords under 1000 I've never seen it. Well in this edition at least.

 CREEEEEEEEED wrote:
As a dwarf player, I cannot approve skaven.
As a real person, I think they are the most enjoyable army to play.
It's just so funny when your doomwheel kills your own dudes.

Seconded!!! I love it when my bud and i army swap.

Also "suspiciously off target" is the greatest rule ever.

Hey all!

I also am looking to get into Skaven and fantasy in general.

First just wondering if anyone has the rules for or has used stormfiends?

The models look amazing, but I don't want to jump into an army if the rules for these models are mediocre.

Lol from experience, Models I like the look of aren't that great rules wise. Such as my csm list which is nothing but hellbrutes and terminators.

It looks great and is fun to play but its too slow moving to ever win. Anyways thanks for any comments

Also any suggestions for starting fantasy would be appreciated as well.

Starting WHFB in general and Skaven in particular the most important thing is to make sure you have a quick simple paint scheme. Spending an hour on a ten-man squad isn't intimidating when you're playing Space Marines and your army doesn't have more than about four or five ten-man squads but if you're playing Skaven and you have two hundred giant rats it gets a little scarier.

Xenomancers wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Okay, so looking at what we've got at a 1000 pt level, I'm thinking of a Cheiftain as General (Because Lords ain't takeable at 1000 pt, as far as I understand), with one, maybe two Warlock Engineers to back up with Warp Lightning. For that, the Battalion and the Skaven half of Island of Blood wouldn't hurt, which will end up with 80 Clan Rats/Slaves, 40 Stormvermin, 40 Plague Monks, 6 or so Giant Rats, 4 Rat Ogres, some Weapon Teams.... That gotta be sufficient for both me and Xenomancer!

I need some assassins inside those SV.

SilverDevilfish wrote:

 The Wise Dane wrote:
Okay, so looking at what we've got at a 1000 pt level, I'm thinking of a Cheiftain as General (Because Lords ain't takeable at 1000 pt, as far as I understand), with one, maybe two Warlock Engineers to back up with Warp Lightning. For that, the Battalion and the Skaven half of Island of Blood wouldn't hurt, which will end up with 80 Clan Rats/Slaves, 40 Stormvermin, 40 Plague Monks, 6 or so Giant Rats, 4 Rat Ogres, some Weapon Teams.... That gotta be sufficient for both me and Xenomancer!

If there's a rule that states you can't take Lords under 1000 I've never seen it. Well in this edition at least.

Well, being new and all, I just looked at the Tacticae I could, and every one said that the Assassin is quite a letdown for the points, so I never thought about adding one. Also, Eshin is my least favourite clan, and the models are preeetty ugly. If I had something like the Shadowblade I would maybe give it a look, though.

And I don't know if a Warlord would be effecient at that small level... I mean, it's mostly stat differences. If I have the points I'll look into it.

Also, made a list the other day for the lulz:

Chieftain w/ Shield of Distraction and Weeping Blade.
Chieftain w/ Battle Standard and Shield.
Warlock Engineer w/ Wizard lvl. 1 (Ruin) and Warpstone Condenser.

29x Clanrats w/ Musician, Shields and Poison Wind Mortar Team.
29x Clanrats w/ Musician and Shields.
20x Skavenslaves w/ Shields.
20x Stormvermin w/ Shields and Standard Bearer.

2x Rat Ogres w/ Packmaster.
2x Rat Ogres w/ Packmaster.

5x Giant Rats w/ Packmaster.

A Chieftain in every Clanrat unit and the Warlock Engineer opting to fry things with Warp Lightning.

Please tell me how faulty this list is