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Lets say GW is lazy and wont redesign every single one of your units.

Instead, what they do is bring out a plastic CSM Dreadclaw drop pod kit with free rules on BL/WD and give them the same drop pod assault rule as SM have. Would it make CSM competitive as a whole? The idea of a pod full of zerkers dropping in on turn 1 is pretty nice, IMO. As is a pod filled with Tsons in rapid fire range. It would make mutilators worth considering too, as well as possessed. Thoughts?

I feel like it would be really cool, there would be nothing scarier then a squadron of Bezerkers dropping in behind enemy lines of the Tau.

I don't think it will happen soon, as I feel like GW has gotten kinda sloppy of balancing CSM to SM nowadays, the SM get all the cool toys and the CSM get whatever is left

Short answer: No, but it'd be cool.

Long answer: Fix the core before adding stuff. CSM need better gun options, a Land Raider that isn't schizoid, better Cult troops, some counter to Jink, and more than one AA solution in-Codex far more than they need Drop Pods.

With all the dataslates and IA:13, CSM can definitely be competitive now.
Doesn't mean the army is fixed. There are still a ton of garbage units. Until the internal balance is as good as the new dexes (looking at AM/Orks and BA there), it will never be fixed. Giving them drop pods does nothing to change the internal balance.
Now don't get me wrong - there are garbage units in the new dexes too. But not to the same extent as CSM atm.

No, but it'd be a large step in the right direction.

No, it wouldn't fix CSM: The HQ section is underwhelming. Their core units ('regular' CSM and Cultists) are overcosted and/or ineffective. Their Elite (Cult) marines are overcosted (and get even worse when you try to kit them out they way they should be--I'm looking at YOU Sonic Blasters!). Oh, and their Landraider bites, hard.

I wouldn't necessarily say the HQ is underwhelming. 2+ cover nurgle deamon princes with black mace and juggerlord with axe of blind fury really stand out. And sorcs are very cheap if just wanting to pay the tax. Abbaddon, if anyone ever figures out how to deliver him effectively and cheaply, has to be one of the most destructive forces in the game, its just, as I said, getting him there.
CSM are overcosted by at least a point, more like 2 (which is a lot on a 13pt model), cultists are cheap tax objective holders. Elite marines are definitely pants (apart from plague marines), unless you take cyphers chosen.
The lack of effective cheap transportation is a HUGE factor.

Oh forgot to mention - Be'lakor!!!

It would make them just another drop pod army. No, wait, it would make them the same drop pod army.

pelicaniforce wrote:
It would make them just another drop pod army. No, wait, it would make them the same drop pod army.

It would make them a drop pod army without ATSKNF.

It certainly wouldn't hurt. But fixing ANY of the armies is a lot more complicated than adding or subtracting a single unit.

Can't they get drop claw pods?

I would say it would help. It may not fix it, but it would make Chosen or special troops better, as you could place them where you want.

 luky7dayz wrote:
I feel like it would be really cool, there would be nothing scarier then a squadron of Bezerkers dropping in behind enemy lines of the Tau.

I don't think it will happen soon, as I feel like GW has gotten kinda sloppy of balancing CSM to SM nowadays, the SM get all the cool toys and the CSM get whatever is left

The issue is that while CSM get toys that normal Marines don't (Obliterators, significantly better Psykers, Daemon Princes, Daemon Engines, Cult Marines) regular Marines' toys (Grav weaponry, Storm Talons, Storm Eagles, more tanks, not-bad Land Raiders) outperform CSM's unique toys.

CSM need an overhaul; some options that'd help:

Marks. Mark of Nurgle is flat-out better than the rest. Start out the Mark of Tzeentch at a 5+ Inv or improve existing by one, make the Mark of Khorne provide Fleet, and make the Mark of Slaanesh provide Fearless, they'd compete a bit better (still not as good but better than they were).

Cult troops. Give us Cult Terminators, Cult Bikes, Cult Raptors, Cult Havocs. Failing that at least fix the existing ones: Berserkers are slightly too expensive and need a native melee delivery system, make them 18ppm standard and give them jump packs for +3ppm. Thousand Sons are incredibly expensive for their range and weapon loadout, right now they're 2ppm cheaper than the Legion of the Damned for a worse Inv, no turn-one-reroll-scatter Deep Strike, no weapon upgrades, and AP3 boltguns. If they're going to be as expensive as they are they should at the very least have Sternguard-esque differing ammo loadouts and some sort of heavy weapon to make use of S&P. For their cost Noise Marines ought to come with Sonic Blasters stock and they should be able to get a Blastmaster at five models, Plague Marines are reasonable right now.

Armour. Chaos ought to be able to get any kind of Land Raider other than the schizoid one, and they really need an inexpensive airplane in Codex. The Daemon Engines are mostly pretty solid, but all CSM vehicles (or at the very least Possessed and Daemon vehicles) ought to be able to get Marks and do cool things with them.

Johnnytorrance wrote:
Can't they get drop claw pods?

They do get Dread Claws. What the OP is saying is if they came out with a plastic Dread Claw, which would have a much wider availability, with the Drop Pod Assault rule, would CSM be fixed/competitive.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 luky7dayz wrote:
I feel like it would be really cool, there would be nothing scarier then a squadron of Bezerkers dropping in behind enemy lines of the Tau.

I don't think it will happen soon, as I feel like GW has gotten kinda sloppy of balancing CSM to SM nowadays, the SM get all the cool toys and the CSM get whatever is left

The issue is that while CSM get toys that normal Marines don't (Obliterators, significantly better Psykers, Daemon Princes, Daemon Engines, Cult Marines) regular Marines' toys (Grav weaponry, Storm Talons, Storm Eagles, more tanks, not-bad Land Raiders) outperform CSM's unique toys.

CSM need an overhaul; some options that'd help:

Marks. Mark of Nurgle is flat-out better than the rest. Start out the Mark of Tzeentch at a 5+ Inv or improve existing by one, make the Mark of Khorne provide Fleet, and make the Mark of Slaanesh provide Fearless, they'd compete a bit better (still not as good but better than they were).

Cult troops. Give us Cult Terminators, Cult Bikes, Cult Raptors, Cult Havocs. Failing that at least fix the existing ones: Berserkers are slightly too expensive and need a native melee delivery system, make them 18ppm standard and give them jump packs for +3ppm. Thousand Sons are incredibly expensive for their range and weapon loadout, right now they're 2ppm cheaper than the Legion of the Damned for a worse Inv, no turn-one-reroll-scatter Deep Strike, no weapon upgrades, and AP3 boltguns. If they're going to be as expensive as they are they should at the very least have Sternguard-esque differing ammo loadouts and some sort of heavy weapon to make use of S&P. For their cost Noise Marines ought to come with Sonic Blasters stock and they should be able to get a Blastmaster at five models, Plague Marines are reasonable right now.

Armour. Chaos ought to be able to get any kind of Land Raider other than the schizoid one, and they really need an inexpensive airplane in Codex. The Daemon Engines are mostly pretty solid, but all CSM vehicles (or at the very least Possessed and Daemon vehicles) ought to be able to get Marks and do cool things with them.

I agree with a lot of these points, but for MoT I think it should be the same as the Daemon of Tzzentch where you re-roll failed saves of 1 because then it has actual use on normal marines, it makes Tzzentch Marines that much more resistant to the mass firepower prevalent in the meta while still making them vulnerable to the things that should ignore armour (i.e. plasma/melta). It also makes Thousands Sons more palatable especially with a points decrease since then they are much more survivable.

Giving them Drop Pods the way they currently are would probably put them in the top tier books because some combos you could do would make them pretty op. Currently you can do well with them regardless.

Drop Pods would be good, but in a way I don´t want CSM to have access to them. They would just become yet another marine Drop Pod army the way the game currently is. I´d rather see better internal balance, and some cool new units that are actually usable.

CSM are designed to run across the board screaming praises to their dark gods so they can challenge the good guy leaders in single combat for the glory of Chaos. This way the good guys can have fun shooting them up on the way in (oh no there are too many of them!) before finishing them off in desperate close combat (wow that was close!). Drop pods don't fit that play style. How you gonna Forge the Narrative then?

Would the addition of drop pods on their own fix my beloved warp loonies? Simply, no.

It would be a start, of that I am sure, and would make Khorne themed armies attractive again.

IMHO the CSM codex is in a shambles, it tries to be a father to all and ends up being nothing but a bastard child of badly written rules. So, how can this be fixed I hear you ask?

It has been! Get IA13 and you have what is arguably a top tier army and a nice battle brothers list that can bring the AA fire and pie plates galor...unless your opponent doesn't let you use Forgeworld that is...but that is a different thread entirely.

Games Workshop brought the Chaos codex closer into line with the Space Marine codex (compare the units and their stats).

The drop pod wouldn't be a far fetched idea and would certainly fit the fluff.

No.

We houseruled drop pods for troops and cult troops in 5th edition. It was pretty awesome, but it did not appreciably change the game.

I would run 4 squads of Berzerkers in drop pods, who would come in and tie up an opponent for a few rounds. Inevitably, the Berzerkers would die off and the opponent would break free. The trouble was, there weren't enough other threats on the board for it to win games straightout.

In 6th edition, I came to the conclusion drop pods (or some other way to reliably get up the board) are a necessity for CSMs or any assault army. Shooting attacks are just too strong now. The new dreadclaws are interesting, but they are expensive and don't really solve the problem.

No, it won't; because they are still meqs. You can give the ATSKNF, too, and they'll still die like loyalists.

I'm planning on running a Dreadclaw with something nasty inside, Deep Striking Termies and Deep Striking Helbrute pack.

I'd personally love it, because I'm also considering an SM/IG dex-run Alpha Legion with Raptor tactics and Lias Issodon and IG Officer of the Fleet to jam their reserve rolls, while my army drop pods, Infiltrates and Deep Strikes. It feels very Alpha Legon-y.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Abbaddon, if anyone ever figures out how to deliver him effectively and cheaply, has to be one of the most destructive forces in the game, its just, as I said, getting him there.

Run him in a unit of slaanesh bikers with the icon excess. They can use their superior movement to conga line in front of him to get the front of his unit close enough to the enemy to charge. At T5 3+ 5+FNP they are a reasonably tough/cheap unit and give big abby a FNP save too.

Any objections to this theory hammer?