Power Fists, Are they good?

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**Merellin**

So, I was just curious about power fists, Are theyg ood? and worth their price..? I have for some time been trying to think of ideas for a space marine army and I had this silly idea, Probably not worth basing an army on by itself, But, A space marine army, That has as many power fists as possible (Cus marines with giant fists are funny. XD)

**vipoid**

Personally, I don't think they're worth their price on non-melee squads. But, you're still getting a markedly better deal than IG...

However, I'm a very minimalist sort of person in that my squads rarely get anything that doesn't directly improve their main role (so, shooty squads never get melee weapons).

I know that some of the people I play with do give all their marine squads PFs - regardless of role. And, sometimes it does pay off.

TLDR in a very competitive environment, it's probably a waste. But, if you're not playing super-competitive, go for it.

**Merellin**

It seems like Space Wolves would be the best choise for maximum power fists as they can take two in every grey hunter squad (One on a regular guy, And one on the sergeant. Or a chain fist if the sergeant choses terminator armour) And Grey Hunters tend to do well in melee.

**Makumba**

25pts for a str 6 at I1. in my army they suck.

**vipoid**

Makumba wrote:
25pts for a str 6 at I1. in my army they suck.

I've no idea why they thought IG and SoB should pay the same as SMs for S6 with worse combat skill.

**Big Blind Bill**

They totally depend on the recipient.

Guardsmen sergeants with Powerfists have 2 str 6 attacks.

Thunderwolf cavalry on the otherhand have 4 str 10 attacks, which of course are much more valuable.

**casvalremdeikun**

A Blood Angel's Power Fist user will hit with Str 9 on a charge. That is pretty nice, even if it is at I1.

**Azza007**

Chuck on a storm bolted too in order to get 2 shots off and still assault.

**Nevelon**

Azza007 wrote:
Chuck on a storm bolted too in order to get 2 shots off and still assault.

Or a combi-flamer/melta

IMHO power fists are overpriced. But there are times you just need to punch things to death, and they deliver. They ID pretty much anything not a MC, and a large chunk of vehicles are AV10 in the rear, so you can open them up with ease. So they get the job done, which is important. The fact they they are expensive is not a huge deal if you are just taking one or two, but if you are spamming them, it’s going to cut deeply into the number of units you can field.

If you wanted to build an army around them, first figure out if you want to get as many on the field as possible, or just make sure there is one in every slot available. For example, you could take tactical terminators, which while a bit overpriced each come with a fist. Alternatively, you could take a vanguard vet squad, each with paired powerfists. (Flying fists of fury!) More fists on the table, but comically overpriced. Sticking a fist on a drop tactical squad can deter people from charging you. Putting them on bike sarges is a good way to punch out tanks. Dev sarges are going to be a waste of points. If you want to go big, dreadnought powerfists turn it up to 11. A MotF will let you take ironclads in your HS slots, a place not know for efficient powerfists. It might be an uphill battle to maximize powerfists, but you should be able to get a playable army out of it.

**vipoid**

Azza007 wrote:
Chuck on a storm bolted too in order to get 2 shots off and still assault.

Then, if only there was a way to get a 2+/5++ save on top...

**Azza007**

Unfortunately most vet sergeants can't take that option.

**AnomanderRake**

Deathwing. 100% powerfist density. Done.

That said powerfists are great for shredding big tough things (they're my favourite counter to Riptides) but they do you no good if you die before I1. It's usually better to mix in higher-Initiative attacks if it's a powerfist hidden in a squad simply because your big expensive squad could end up fighting Incubi and losing everyone at the I5 step.

**Grey Templar**

Power Fists are good on marine squads who are already going to see melee.

However, if you can take a Thunderhammer also its better to go for that instead if you have the option.

**vipoid**

Grey Templar wrote:
Power Fists are good on marine squads who are already going to see melee.

However, if you can take a Thunderhammer also its better to go for that instead if you have the option.

Why's that?

**Grey Templar**

Because Concussive is a good rule against many of the targets that PFs are good against.

**Poly Ranger**

It also increases their value if 'hidden' I.e. put on a non character, so cannot be challenged out, eg: Sanguinary guard, Death company, crusader squad etc. Or in a squad with multiple characters, to again, avoid being challenged out.

**AnomanderRake**

Grey Templar wrote:
Because Concussive is a good rule against many of the targets that PFs are good against.

It doesn't help that much against vehicles (who don't hit back), characters (who should have been IDed already), or non-melee MCs (who wouldn't have done much anyway). It's only five extra points but it's not going to help much if you're not fighting melee 'Nidzilla, Greater Daemons/Daemon Princes, or possibly Walkers.

**lycio**

Power fists are identical to Thunderhammers except in 2 regards. Power fists are not concussive, so if lowering your opponent to the same initiative as you is not vital to you, then go power fist. Second, they are five points cheaper, so if you need to shave off a few points, again, power fist is a good way to do that. Ideally though, for 5 points you're making sure your opponent doesn't get to hit (and possibly kill) your guys before you hit them, which to me seems worth it

**AnomanderRake**

lycio wrote:
Power fists are identical to Thunderhammers except in 2 regards. Power fists are not concussive, so if lowering your opponent to the same initiative as you is not vital to you, then go power fist. Second, they are five points cheaper, so if you need to shave off a few points, again, power fist is a good way to do that. Ideally though, for 5 points you're making sure your opponent doesn't get to hit (and possibly kill) your guys before you hit them, which to me seems worth it

It's worth it if you're fighting an army against which it matters ('Nidzilla, Daemons monster mash, Knights/melee walkers, Necrons (T5 Lords, bah)). Most of the time you're going to be IDing out any character you wound with it in the first place.

**DanielBeaver**

They're good on melee-focused IC's (e.g., Space Marine Captains)

They're good on non-character models who have a lot of attacks (e.g., Death Company, Thunderwolves)

They're a horrific waste of points on almost everything else.

**Ailaros**

Yes, they're worth it. Against anything remotely scary, they're the difference between winning or at least doing serious damage in close combat and just folding like an umbrella.

At low points you can give them a pass, as there's less scary stuff, but once you break 1,000, you're probably going to want to take at least a few as an insurance policy, if nothing else.

Nothing else like, say, being able to punch a tank in half or wrassle a carnifex to the ground. Rule of cool.

**Vaktathi**

Power fists are a useful utility, but definitely not something to simply spam. Often you won't need more than one or two anyway, They're a powerful tool to make an enemy combat character think twice about what they may decide to hop in against, and give some teeth to even non-CC oriented squads that may get stuck in with an MC or the like, allowing them to at least provide some level of threat back.

That said, I don't put them in every unit necessarily either, and they're usually somewhat wasted on Independent Characters.

**Filch**

PFs on a Champion of Chaos=Worthless unless he also has a lightning claw.

**th3maninblak**

I take them 1 per death company squad, or 2 in a sanguinary guard unit. Other than that i dont believe theyre worth it. Even on assault marines, power weapons or pistols (or combi weapons in the case of space wolves or BA) i dont believe they deserve much consideration.

That being said, there are definitely times where i wish i had a power fist.

**Alcibiades**

vipoid wrote:
Makumba wrote:
25pts for a str 6 at I1. in my army they suck.

I've no idea why they thought IG and SoB should pay the same as SMs for S6 with worse combat skill.

Do the math to see how they compare with a priest in the squad. That's why.

**AnomanderRake**

Alcibiades wrote:
vipoid wrote:
Makumba wrote:
25pts for a str 6 at I1. in my army they suck.

I've no idea why they thought IG and SoB should pay the same as SMs for S6 with worse combat skill.

Do the math to see how they compare with a priest in the squad. That's why.

Grandfather clause. Logically there should be differential pricing for power weapons between a one-Attack Vanguard Veteran and a four-Attack Chapter Master, and logically they should have gone down in price since 3e when assault mattered and power weapons were AP2 all the time, but that would confuse the people that have all the numbers memorized so they can't do it. It's the same reason a tactical Terminator is still 40pts.

My 10ppm Bloodletters clearly aren't paying 15pts for their power weapons.

**Mavnas**

Honestly, for most sgts. you'd be better off with a power axe. 10 points cheaper and you get an extra attack because it's not a specialist weapon. Against most things a non-super smashy squad will face S5 AP2 is plenty.

**vipoid**

Alcibiades wrote:
Do the math to see how they compare with a priest in the squad. That's why.

So, IG need to pay the same price as marines for a crappy power fist, then that cost again to make it functional?

Why can't I just have a functional PF in the first place?

**FL5**

I've been considering fists for when I build my Legion of the Damned sergeants. Since they are almost always going to be deep-striking right next to my opponents' most juicy stuff, they are going to end up in combat. They have WS5, and with a 3++ they at least have a chance to survive the inevitable challenges.

A lot of the lists that I see posted have the minimum 5 LotD troopers with just guns and no close combat upgrades, but with this unit's special rules and their combat role, it seems to me that there's at least a decent chance that fists might not be a bad thing to try with them.

**CrownAxe**

FL5 wrote:
I've been considering fists for when I build my Legion of the Damned sergeants. Since they are almost always going to be deep-striking right next to my opponents' most juicy stuff, they are going to end up in combat. They have WS5, and with a 3++ they at least have a chance to survive the inevitable challenges.

A lot of the lists that I see posted have the minimum 5 LotD troopers with just guns and no close combat upgrades, but with this unit's special rules and their combat role, it seems to me that there's at least a decent chance that fists might not be a bad thing to try with them.

The unit is extremely fragile for their price and generally don't survive past the turn they deep strike and blow something up. Why make them more expensive for something they won't get to use.