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Today I spoke with an independent sculpter regarding a potential new miniatures wargame he is intending to produce in the future, he told me the following:

If you talk to someone who is in anger that the rumored changes in WHFB9 will kill square based wargaming, tell them that you heard rumors of a new game coming out, possibly with an early 2016 kickstarter. A square based regimental game that will focus on unit synergies and chains of command to simulate the feeling of being the general of a mighty battle unlike warhammer with insane magic and crazy powerful monsters and characters.

A game set not in a traditional fantasy universe, but in a pseudo-historical world with heavy influences from real life unexplained events and great historical mysteries.

Magic is merely a term for science unknown to some cultures, and the setting will be like if you are far enough out into the unexplained and conspiracy theories, it could almost be considered realistic.

Oh, and it revolves around an alien invasion during a zombie apocalypse in Renaissance Europe.

He has asked me not to currently release too many specific details nor his identity due to some business that needs to be fully finished with involving past work, but he assures me that's being concluded soon.

I understand I am being rather vague, and I apologize for this, but I can only say so much at present. He has given me a run down of the fluff, but until his business is complete I cannot give details beyond vague assertions, such as there being a conspiracy theory vibe to the fluff and it builds a very dark and grim reality.

I can also say I'e seen initial model sculpts and they are gorgeous. I'll post pictures when I can.

Murdock129 wrote:
... it could almost be considered realistic.

Oh, and it revolves around an alien invasion during a zombie apocalypse in Renaissance Europe.

Okiedokie, then...




Models sell me as much as rules and setting, so not much to go on from this so far.

Allow me to explain (I've checked and I'm allowed to explain the fluff in greater detail:

The basic story goes: The Ithilids are ancient aliens who seeded the earth with water 4,6 billion years ago. Their technology is largely biotechnological. They were the ones who brought life to the earth, and it was intended as their technology. Like a snail is actually a filter to extract calcium from the earth, every food chain is an arranged eco-system with every creature having a specific task. All managed through a hive mind created by the Ithilitds' telepathic powers. They design creatures by controlling which creatures get to breed and thus which genetics get to survive. They can't however control anything outside of the water and when something crawled on land and it all went darwin, the ithilids basically saw this as an uprising of their technology like in terminator.

The ithilids were not an invasion force but rather just a colonising mission, and so for the rest of time, they have tried in every possible way to win this war of theirs against life on the surface, who have evolved and adapted accordingly. Among the greater effords to exterminate surface life were calling down the comet which wiped out the dinosaurs, moving the earth further from the sun, causing the ice age, the flood mentioned in noahs ark as well as any bacteria or virus ever.

They used a virus to create something akin to traditional zombies (both slow moving/rotting types, and fast running infected) as a weapon to use against the most powerful beings or forces upon the land.

Dumb.

Allow me to try and explain again as my last comment sounded a little weird out of context.

There's already been multiple near Apocolypses caused by the Ilithids, they summoned the comet to earth that wiped out the Dinosaurs, moved the Earth further from the sun to bring about the Ice Ages, created viruses and bacteria, created floods such as the great Biblical Flood, the creation of zombies was among those tools they have used in their eternal quest to destroy life on the surface.

This leaves the setting as essentially a Post Apocalyptic early 1400's Europe. This is combined with the numerous creatures and degenerates that live outside the City States of the Republic, and a shadowy organisation (akin to the Illuminati) who seek to dominate the world via religious dogma, propaganda and slight of hand, assasinations, engineering of disasters such as burning the Library of Alexandria to manipulate the common man and cultivate the Republic to how they wish it to be, and if they are able to take full control they intend to rewrite history and use such propaganda to solidify their control over the Republic and eventually expand beyond.

At the same time the Ithilids are preparing to unleash a new plague of the undead against the land, more deadly than any before, after their plagues destroyed the great civilizations of Egypt, Greece, Rome and others, while in the mean time their newly enhanced warriors march from the oceans to destroy all life on the land and return earth fully to it's rightful owners (in their eyes)

If these "Ithillids" look like D&D Illithid Mind Flayers and have good-looking models, you have my attention.

Backstory and world-building are usually rather low on people's lists in terms of interest; myself included.

You might want to check, but IIRC the specific term "ithilid" is a trademark of TSR and by extention WotC.

I like the idea, but the names may have to be changed.

If he wants to cash in on people exiting Warhammer, he'll want to make the minis at least semi-compatible with people's existing collections.

Obviously he's not going to want to copy it unit-by-unit, but if I can't use a good chunk of my WFB minis in his game, I'll go to Kings of War instead where I can.

xraytango wrote:
You might want to check, but IIRC the specific term "ithilid" is a trademark of TSR and by extention WotC.

I like the idea, but the names may have to be changed.

Hasbro. TSR was forced due to financial problems to sell itself to Wizards of the Coast in 1997. Then in 1999 Wizards of the Coast was purchased by Hasbro.

xraytango wrote:
You might want to check, but IIRC the specific term "ithilid" is a trademark of TSR and by extention WotC.

The D&D creature is an Illithid, not an Ithilid.

 Ghaz wrote:

xraytango wrote:
You might want to check, but IIRC the specific term "ithilid" is a trademark of TSR and by extention WotC.

I like the idea, but the names may have to be changed.

Hasbro. TSR was forced due to financial problems to sell itself to Wizards of the Coast in 1997. Then in 1999 Wizards of the Coast was purchased by Hasbro.

Yeah Ghaz, I know that. My point was to show that those trademarks were part of the overall D&D IP. It originated with TSR and went to WotC,

This is not the place for a discussion of D&D trademarks.

So a heads up on a kickstarter for next year because Warhammer Fantasy may change?

I'm just wondering what the GOAL of the KS is going to be as there are plenty of systems out right now for free or cheap that can be or have been adapted for warhammer fantasy battles. Have you even begun to write rules for the game or is this to fund developing the game itself?

I hope this guy you talked to is successful with his project, but to be honest he lost me with his first line:

If you talk to someone who is in anger that the rumored changes in WHFB9 will kill square based wargaming

Yeah, 'cos WHFB is the totality of square-based regimental gaming. Nobody else ever thought of it.

Also, which ice age?

2016 is a ways out, of course, and the setting doesn't sound very fantasy-like.

Still, it'll be interesting to see when the time comes - but I agree, might want to intro differently... you want a game that stands on its own merits, not "are you angry about WHFB9", as there are already lots of options for those who are.

I look forward to hearing more when the game/models/background is more fully baked.

 Theophony wrote:
I'm just wondering what the GOAL of the KS is going to be as there are plenty of systems out right now for free or cheap that can be or have been adapted for warhammer fantasy battles. Have you even begun to write rules for the game or is this to fund developing the game itself?

Rules and lore are already in the work, the KS goal will be to get the sculpts and models produced

 Absolutionis wrote:
If these "Ithillids" look like D&D Illithid Mind Flayers and have good-looking models, you have my attention.

There are definitely comparisons to be made in the appearances,some models in the army more than others, the models themselves are very well detailed.

 nels1031 wrote:
So a heads up on a kickstarter for next year because Warhammer Fantasy may change?

The kickstarter would be going on anyway, the mentioning Warhammer Fantasy bit was more him asking me to talk to those people who were upset like that after I mentioned I knew a few. So the quote is slightly out of context.

Also, which ice age?

Historical Fantasy? Isn't that like saying nonfiction fiction?

 Frankenberry wrote:
Historical Fantasy? Isn't that like saying nonfiction fiction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_fantasy

Historical fantasy is a subgenre of historical fiction that incorporates fantastic elements (such as magic) into the narrative. It is used as an umbrella term for the sword and sorcery genre and sometimes, if fantasy is involved, the sword-and-sandal genre too. Stories fitting this classification generally take place prior to the 20th century.

Films of this genre may have plots set in biblical or classical antiquity, often with plots based very loosely on mythology or legends of Greek-Roman history, or the surrounding cultures of the same era.

I know about this project and have done so for a couple of years now, and can indeed confirm that there is truth to these rumors. I have been told the entire setup, and it seems very well developed and unlike any fantasy setting previously seen.
I have also seen initial sculpts for most of the Ithilid faction and they are stunning to say the least. Done with putty and proper casting, and none of that CGI crap, making for more natural looking models.

As far as I'm concerned, the aforementioned realism of the setting comes from heavy influences from pseudo science. Like books by Erik von Dániken and the history channel shows on andient aliens, real life conspiracy theories and historical mysteries, making for a setting with roots in real life unexplained phenomena and scientific mysteries. Indeed it is indubitably all fictional, but it is far more realistic and real-life based than traditional high fantasy universes such as Warhammer or Warcraft. As previously stated, the magical element comes from science not understood by certain cultures, with the fluff going out of the way to explain how the more supernatural elements are inspired by real life mysterious events and artefacts, and technically, with a stretch of imagination could work within the actual laws of fiction, assuming certain conspiracies and far out scientific theories to be true.

 judgedoug wrote:

 Frankenberry wrote:
Historical Fantasy? Isn't that like saying nonfiction fiction?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_fantasy

Historical fantasy is a subgenre of historical fiction that incorporates fantastic elements (such as magic) into the narrative. It is used as an umbrella term for the sword and sorcery genre and sometimes, if fantasy is involved, the sword-and-sandal genre too. Stories fitting this classification generally take place prior to the 20th century.

Films of this genre may have plots set in biblical or classical antiquity, often with plots based very loosely on mythology or legends of Greek-Roman history, or the surrounding cultures of the same era.

Doesn't make the term any less oxymornic.

sounds interesting. Might get in depending on the material of the figs

 Theophony wrote:
I'm just wondering what the GOAL of the KS is going to be as there are plenty of systems out right now for free or cheap that can be or have been adapted for warhammer fantasy battles. Have you even begun to write rules for the game or is this to fund developing the game itself?

Exactly my thoughts. We usually avoid commenting on other people's threads (for obvious reasons), but I'd like to point out that besides WHFB there's also Mantic with Kings of War and our rulepack should be coming out within 2015 (draft 1.a at least).
So the more the merrier obviously and it already seems this has little to do with our plans/world/game, but just a heads up that there's already another 2 army wargames that will be available way before 2016 hits the doorbell ;-)

 insaniak wrote:
This is not the place for a discussion of D&D trademarks.

It is when the trademark potentially presents a barrier to the product in question. Ithillid just sounds like a blatant rip off. Naw man, in Battlehammer, my rat dudes are called Sakven and they worship the Horned Rodent.

Also, if these mindflayer dudes are so badass they can literally move the planet further from the sun and have billions of years of biotech, how the hell do some dudes with swords and bows stand a chance?

WOTC is incredibly overprotective of a few key aspects of their IP, to the point where Impact miniatures ended up changing their mindflayer looking model simply called "cultist" due to D&D letters.

Is anyone else getting a weird vibe from this thread? For example, a friend of mine who has been around in the business for years compared it to Ice Age Mammals.