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What it says on the box: is a small force of Militarum Tempestus permitted as an Allied Detachment (meaning 1 less troops requirement) to a primary detachment of Astra Militarum?

The Rules say:

In the case of codex supplements, the Faction of all the units described in that publication is the same as the codex it is a supplement of.

and the limitations on Allied Detachment say:

All units chosen must have a different Faction to any of the units in your Primary Detachment

So I guess the question, or rather what I want to confirm is:

Is Militarum Tempestus a distinct faction from Astra Militarum, given that the book is called "Codex: Militarum Tempestus" and doesn't use the word "supplement" ?

It's totally fine because Militarum Tempestus is a Codex in and of itself and not a supplement.

Kriswall is 100% correct, Scions have their own codex, so ally away!

"Faction" means the Codex the models are from. Go for it.

I disagree. Faction appears on the allied chart - where on that chart do the scions appear? What alliance level are they with regular AM? As such I would suggest they can't be used in an allied detachment with a standard AM CAD list

 Massaen wrote:
I disagree. Faction appears on the allied chart - where on that chart do the scions appear? What alliance level are they with regular AM? As such I would suggest they can't be used in an allied detachment with a standard AM CAD list

They're imperium of man so are battle brothers

Where does it tell me that? Not in the BRB under the armies of imperium that's for sure!

 Massaen wrote:
Where does it tell me that? Not in the BRB under the armies of imperium that's for sure!

Have you tried the Codex itself?

"Factions and Allies" p60

I have just borrowed a copy from a buddy and was about to post that I was wrong. The codex is very clear on what faction and the allies level it has

Yup... the allies chart in the BRB is ONLY useful for the Codexes that were in existence when the BRB was written. Codex: Legion of the Damned is also not on that list, but is handled within the Codex itself.

Kriswall wrote:Yup... the allies chart in the BRB is ONLY useful for the Codexes that were in existence when the BRB was written. Codex: Legion of the Damned is also not on that list, but is handled within the Codex itself.

Codex: Astra Militarum and the storm trooper supplement/stand-alone-codex predate the 7th ed rules.
Astra Militarum is mentioned as an Army of the Imperium, but there's no mention of "Militarum Tempestus" either way.

grendel083 wrote:

 Massaen wrote:
Where does it tell me that? Not in the BRB under the armies of imperium that's for sure!

Have you tried the Codex itself?

"Factions and Allies" p60

I have the digital editions - with no page numbers, but.... Ah ok... I found it - yep, says Militarum Tempestus can be "allies" with Astra Militarum

Cool.... so I can give my storm troopers the tank hunters order

 karlosovic wrote:
Cool.... so I can give my storm troopers the tank hunters order

Not if they're MT allies, sadly.
The Orders rule is very clear on who an order can be issued to.

Why not just take a Tempestus platoon as one of your Elite slots in an AM CAD? Then your AM can give them orders.

 God In Action wrote:
Why not just take a Tempestus platoon as one of your Elite slots in an AM CAD? Then your AM can give them orders.

Don't scions have orders of their own? I'm not familiar with them but maybe to use those? Plus as an allied detachment you can take a lot more, without using up elite slots.

 kingbobbito wrote:

 God In Action wrote:
Why not just take a Tempestus platoon as one of your Elite slots in an AM CAD? Then your AM can give them orders.

Don't scions have orders of their own? I'm not familiar with them but maybe to use those? Plus as an allied detachment you can take a lot more, without using up elite slots.

Yes they do have their own orders, none of which is the tank hunter order that karlosovic wanted

The standard 'Bring It Down!' (Tank Hunters) order can be issued by any Senior Officer to the Tempestus of the Elite slot of AM.

as per the militarum tempestus book all the units and the orders in it are for models from the book which have their own faction "militarum tempestus"

so they are a different faction than astra militarum.

 God In Action wrote:
Why not just take a Tempestus platoon as one of your Elite slots in an AM CAD? Then your AM can give them orders.

Because Ogryns, Ratlings and Wyrdvane Psykers are so good that they take up all your Elite spots!

...

I don't see the point of the Militarum Tempestus codex if you are playing Guard in the first place, unless you desperately want to use the Air Cavalry formation (4 Valkyries loaded with 3 Stormtrooper Units, 1 Command Squad and a Lord Commisaar that come on from reserve with 1 roll). The orders are better in the Guard codex, the Elite section in the Guard codex is pretty poor anyway so you will probably never be competing for slots and you get all the same toys in both codices.

 CrownAxe wrote:

 kingbobbito wrote:

 God In Action wrote:
Why not just take a Tempestus platoon as one of your Elite slots in an AM CAD? Then your AM can give them orders.

Don't scions have orders of their own? I'm not familiar with them but maybe to use those? Plus as an allied detachment you can take a lot more, without using up elite slots.

Yes they do have their own orders, none of which is the tank hunter order that karlosovic wanted

Sorry, said the wrong thing, I actually meant the preferred enemy order.

I'm planning to use the storm troopers in 5-man melta-squads, Vendetta-dropping or deepstriking behind enemy lines. The Tank Hunters order looked good, but only senior officers can use that, and obviously the storm troopers are going to be operating too far forward to be inside senior officer command range. I *could* take a storm trooper platoon as an elites choice in my main army, but none of the junior officer orders from codex astra militarum looked much use for the role I want my storm troopers playing, but things like preferred enemy or twin-linked would be more useful.

As long as faction isn't an issue, I can take my command squad (with orders) and a single squad of scions using the allied formation. Otherwise I would have needed another squad of scions to fill mandatory slots, and I don't really want 3 units of them