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So im new and making a very themed and fluffy SM army and i would like to include a Vanguard Veteran Jump unit and im wondering whats the best way to kit it to be effective at something(be it melee or ranged), how big unit size etc etc.
The whole army is gonna be iron hands but as i said, it very themed and fluffy

Power wep sgt. And 1-2 hidden fists or power weps in the 10 man squad. Other than that I'd not put anymore points into em.

GoreBelcher wrote:it very themed and fluffy

Vanguard's aren't the best unit, but that's okay if you're running fluffy. The main pitfall you want to avoid is buying too much equipment for them - they get expensive fast.

 raiden wrote:
And 1-2 hidden fists or power weps in the 10 man squad. Other than that I'd not put anymore points into em.

That's a pretty good ratio. Power Axes and Meltabombs are also equipment that are worth looking into. Unweildy isn't such a big drawback if you the rest of your squad acting as meat shields.

 raiden wrote:
Power wep sgt.

I'm generally not a fan of putting anything on the sgt since he often gets insta-gibbed in challenges, depriving you of a powreful weapon that you paid for. I'll occasionally give him a storm shield, so he can shield the rest of his squad from the AP3 or AP2 attacks that are common on a lot of characters.

It's a shame that they are so badly overpriced as I think they are one of the best looking units in the matine army today.

Something about a blob of ten ultra detailed jump marines with claws, hammers, shields and so on is just gorgeous.

In a fluff army though, go for it. Sticking a storm shield on the Sgt lets him take a challenge with almost anyone and have a shot at surviving while the squad rip the unit to pieces. I would normally ignore thunder hammers, they are not tough enough to strike second you want them hurting as early as possible.

Claws would be my choice

Their issue is that you're paying for the privilege of unit-wide access to close combat wargear... which is priced for HQ units, instead of regular models. A Power Fist is a good buy on a Captain with his 3 wounds and 3 attacks, but more questionable on a veteran with 1 wound and 2 attacks.

One thing to consider is just running them with default wargear. They have 50% more attacks for only a 30% premium over regular Assault Marines, and don't compete for Fast Attack slots.

You could take the Sanguine Wing formation, paint them as Blood Angels, and get free power weapons... you have to add Sternguard and a Stormraven too, but you get some amazing freebies.

Plasma pistol and grav pistol!

FLYING COWBOY MARINES

Thanks for all the replies. Ok so another question then, are there any jump pack units worth taking as SM ? Im doing some conversion and i would really like to include some.

Is disagree with the VV being overpriced per model, I also forgot yo mention my normal Sgt loadout is SS/LC. Anyway, VV are 2pts more per model than asm. You get an extra attack and +1LD. What's not to like? Its an elite slot. The only real drawback. A couple storm shields (one on the Sgt) and you should be OK. Don't ever put a SS on a model with a power weapon though, use them as ap3 shields. I just prefer my sgts to be awesome. More than once has that model proved worth the points. More than not as well. Especially since you can multi charge and still get +1A on the charge, love it.

GoreBelcher wrote:
Thanks for all the replies. Ok so another question then, are there any jump pack units worth taking as SM ? Im doing some conversion and i would really like to include some.

in my opinion, no

Unless your BA or maybe ravenguard? No not really.

I’ve had decent results with a 5 man assault squad with a pair of flamers. My local isn’t excessively competitive, so YMMV.

I’ve only recently finished painting my VVs, so they’ve not hit the table yet. Just a few toys on them to keep the points down; I think they can work.

 raiden wrote:
Anyway, VV are 2pts more per model than asm.

No, they're 5 more points per model. You have to buy the jump packs for them, they don't get them as default wargear.

 DanielBeaver wrote:

 raiden wrote:
Anyway, VV are 2pts more per model than asm.

No, they're 5 more points per model. You have to buy the jump packs for them, they don't get them as default wargear.

See, I rarely give them packs. I use them in a LR or raven, but you are right. Still 5pts for +1A and +1LD is a steal.

I am going to run the Angel's Wrath Intervention Force formation in my BA list. I am running 2x Melta Assault Squads (love that BA can pack Melta or Plasma on AS) and a VV squad. I love the Meteoric Impact ability that they have. It really captures how I envision JP troops coming in. My VVs are a Relic Blade/SS Sergeant, BP/CCW/SS x2, and 2x LC x2. The shields will help them survive the arrival turn, and they will charge whatever they can hit (RB will be 3x Str 7 AP3 attacks on the charge, which is pretty nice). But really, they are just a delivery mechanism for the Assault Squads. But I didn't just want to model a bunch of BP/CCW Marines.

A few Stormshield/chainsword vanguard to act as tanks, some melta bombs spread throughout the non SS vanguard and you have a decent jump squad when running Raven Guard chapter traits. I prefer to take them with Shadow Captain Korvydae and a jump Chapter Master with tw/LC's and artificer armor as well. Korvydae gives you hit and run on top of the Raven Guard chapter traits and unlocks ASM as troops that I run with dual flamers in cheap drop pods to up my DPA numbers and give me the chance to burn out a lot of pesky units quick. Don't go overboard on wargear for the VV's though, they add up quickly and you'll rarely (never?) see the return on points spent to kit them all out like the box cover.

Raven Guard very much so favor these units. Unfortunately, they are very unbalanced in terms of where their points go. For a 30 or so point model, you only get power armor and T4 as for as defense goes. In other words, if these guys take much of any shots, they are not doing their job. You have to get them into combat without being shot at, which is very hard to accomplish because they draw so much aggro, being as dangerous as they are.

I suggest you check out this video on making a Raven Guard list for 1850 points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdtLOZfNsZk

In an overview, he suggests taking this:

Shadow Captain Shrike (Warlord)
5 Scouts- Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks
5 Scouts- Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks
5 Scouts- Sniper Rifles, Camo Cloaks
10 Vanguard Veterans- Jump Packs, Veteran Sergeant w/ Thunder Hammer, Melta Bombs (Shrike goes here)
10 Assault Marines- Sergeant has Powerfist and Melta Bombs
10 Assault Marines- Sergeant has Powerfist and Melta Bombs
10 Assault Marines- Sergeant has Powerfist and Melta Bombs
Stormraven Gunship- TL Lascannon, TL MM
Stormraven Gunship- TL Lascannon, TL MM
Stormraven Gunship- TL Lascannon, TL MM

The vanguard squad acts as the elite assault force, avoiding taking fire through target saturation. 40 Assault marines coming at your opponent gives him a lot to think about.

EDIT: Makes sure you read the Raven Guard chapter tactics. They are a very powerful force multiplier for this list!

I run my vets like this:

2 powerfist and plasma pistol
2 powerfist and stormshield
2 powersword and plasma pistol
4 thunderhammer and stormshield
Entire squad has jump packs and melta bombs

This squad was assembled and converted with the old metal vets (painstakingly and expensive as hell I might add!) and it was before the resurgence of the grav weapons so I'm contemplating a change or two but as of now they are as listed

An option to take meltabombz and hidden fists is what really differs them from asm.
Maxing gear out is not effective.

So, i guess the best way to run them is barebones with 1/2 hidden fists or a bunch of meltabombz. This way you pay reasonable ammount of points for + attacks and hidden gear.