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Who would win, Wolf Guard Terminators or Deathwing Terminators?

I would personally put my money on the Deathwing

Personally I think Deathwing. There's just something way cooler about the suspected traitors - I mean extremely loyal loyalists - than the Bikers on Steroids

I'd go with Deathwing as well, both rulewise and fluffwise - especially if we are talking here about Inner Circle Deathwing and their Knights.

Although Deathwing Knights have silly rules encouraging them to cluster, and somewhat lackluster maces

I think being able to combine an TH/SS with a CML is awesome.
That and putting a H Flamer in an assault squad where it belongs.
Also Plasma Cannon terminators is pretty cool (kinda heavily armed mobile devastator)

Deathwing. These guys wrote the book on large scale terminator warfare (at least for the Chapters). SW are just a bunch of 1 wound wannabe heroes... cool, but not better than DW Knights, DW command squads, or the DW itself.

Fluff = DW

TT = it can be close, but DW.

Boniface wrote:
Although Deathwing Knights have silly rules encouraging them to cluster, and somewhat lackluster maces

I think being able to combine an TH/SS with a CML is awesome.
That and putting a H Flamer in an assault squad where it belongs.
Also Plasma Cannon terminators is pretty cool (kinda heavily armed mobile devastator)

Lackluster? S6 AP4 at Initiative (S6 AP3 for the Master) and once per game S10 AP2. Throw a Chaplain in and I'd hardly call that lackluster.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Deathwing, they're more versatile than normal Terminators.

On the table, Deathwing have Knights that would annihilate Wolf Guard, flexibility and absurdly powerful yet expensive banners that would give them the edge.

In the fluff, Wolves would win. The Wolf Guard are just that merciless and nasty that I'm certain they would somehow manage to ruin the Deathwing. The Dark Angels leadership are mediocre, unimpressive saps by 40k standards, Logan Grimnar's grasp of strategy and his cunning would just piss all over Belial, and he'd flatten him into paste in a duel if it came to that as well.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
On the table, Deathwing have Knights that would annihilate Wolf Guard, flexibility and absurdly powerful yet expensive banners that would give them the edge.

In the fluff, Wolves would win. The Wolf Guard are just that merciless and nasty that I'm certain they would somehow manage to ruin the Deathwing. The Dark Angels leadership are mediocre, unimpressive saps by 40k standards, Logan Grimnar's grasp of strategy and his cunning would just piss all over Belial, and he'd flatten him into paste in a duel if it came to that as well.

Ha
Hahahahaha.
Hahahaba
Azreal- lore wise is given a tactical mind to rival dante and calgar.

Belial- before he was even captain of the DW he not only held off ghazghul from taking a planet with a mediocre defense force, but managed to duel him and live. Belial on the TT is a push over far as most HQ are concerned fluff wise he is a scary guy though Logan would most likely win a duel unless it was sammeal :p.

Deathwing are better-equipped to fight Terminators than Wolf Guard. They're not strictly better in all situations but fighting each other the Deathwing would win.

 Mr.Omega wrote:
On the table, Deathwing have Knights that would annihilate Wolf Guard, flexibility and absurdly powerful yet expensive banners that would give them the edge.

In the fluff, Wolves would win. The Wolf Guard are just that merciless and nasty that I'm certain they would somehow manage to ruin the Deathwing. The Dark Angels leadership are mediocre, unimpressive saps by 40k standards, Logan Grimnar's grasp of strategy and his cunning would just piss all over Belial, and he'd flatten him into paste in a duel if it came to that as well.

That's cute, minus the fact that the DA's Primarch is known for being more cunning. He punched out Russ and the DA would do the same to remains of his puppies.

No it's true that grimnar probably would beat belial strategically, azrael... Not a chance in hell, he is one of 3 characters in second to have a strat rating of 4/5, now he picks his trait, not radomly or assigned, picks, he is the best strategist the imperium currently has, Dante and Logan might be amongst the best, but he is the best.

Arjack alone beat the sorry a55 of belial, and the shield brothers wipe the floor with the deathwing knights, proved in a game i had a couple of weeks ago, that t5 and s8 ap2 counter hits are a win win.
Againts the normal deathwing terminator, WG terminator have a lot of weapons from where to choose, frost axes, power axes, a full unit with combi plasma, a full unit with combi flamers, even a full unit with wolf claws, those high strenght and shred gonna make a mess of deathwing terminators.
Your terminator could have a single plasma cannon, but i can have a unit of 5 WG with combiplasmas and power axes, a lot cheaper and versatile.
PD: Even a lone wolf kill three deathwing knigths and hold them for three rounds, a single lone wolf, and he was wearing power armour with SS and TH

Nice example anyari (not sarcasm), but I have examples where ye olde belial the 130 point one, took on 3 deamon prices and a soul grinder over the space of a game and SOMEHOW managed to kill the dps and tank the grinder, sometimes the dice gods are with you lol

 Formosa wrote:
Nice example anyari (not sarcasm), but I have examples where ye olde belial the 130 point one, took on 3 deamon prices and a soul grinder over the space of a game and SOMEHOW managed to kill the dps and tank the grinder, sometimes the dice gods are with you lol

Thats really good, shows some meat, the problem is that i had make the same with a lone wolf in TDA, kill a black mace daemon prince and survive to make some more wreck on the enemy lines, and the lone wolf is a elite unit, meanwhile belial is a named character, and lone wolf with TDA, ss and TH is 80 pts

 anyeri wrote:
Arjack alone beat the sorry a55 of belial, and the shield brothers wipe the floor with the deathwing knights, proved in a game i had a couple of weeks ago, that t5 and s8 ap2 counter hits are a win win.
Againts the normal deathwing terminator, WG terminator have a lot of weapons from where to choose, frost axes, power axes, a full unit with combi plasma, a full unit with combi flamers, even a full unit with wolf claws, those high strenght and shred gonna make a mess of deathwing terminators.
Your terminator could have a single plasma cannon, but i can have a unit of 5 WG with combiplasmas and power axes, a lot cheaper and versatile.
PD: Even a lone wolf kill three deathwing knigths and hold them for three rounds, a single lone wolf, and he was wearing power armour with SS and TH

Unless I'm wrong, WG aren't terminators. And you forget, Belial would come in T1 without scatter, and bring all kinds of Twin-linked hell, so I hardly think your one anecdotal piece counts as proof.

I've had Belial take down a wraithknight in CC....

Just saying.
Also a full squad of knights plus Belial and a chaplain wiped out most of a 2500 chaos list on Sunday... not sure why the rest of my army turned up.

It's mostly a push until those DW pull out that S10 AP2 stuff. And that's not taking into account the DS placement. Where they can land exactly where they want, to drop the weapons that can hurt them and more with the TL shooting.

But if we are talking smack on DW Knights, I've won in combat with them with a 20 man Guard blob. He happened to roll A LOT of ones. I like to think it is because my Guard is just that hard.

Lore wise, I can't make a call. I'd lean DW because of the infamy. But I don't know much of either DA or SW lore.

 jreilly89 wrote:

 anyeri wrote:
Arjack alone beat the sorry a55 of belial, and the shield brothers wipe the floor with the deathwing knights, proved in a game i had a couple of weeks ago, that t5 and s8 ap2 counter hits are a win win.
Againts the normal deathwing terminator, WG terminator have a lot of weapons from where to choose, frost axes, power axes, a full unit with combi plasma, a full unit with combi flamers, even a full unit with wolf claws, those high strenght and shred gonna make a mess of deathwing terminators.
Your terminator could have a single plasma cannon, but i can have a unit of 5 WG with combiplasmas and power axes, a lot cheaper and versatile.
PD: Even a lone wolf kill three deathwing knigths and hold them for three rounds, a single lone wolf, and he was wearing power armour with SS and TH

Unless I'm wrong, WG aren't terminators. And you forget, Belial would come in T1 without scatter, and bring all kinds of Twin-linked hell, so I hardly think your one anecdotal piece counts as proof.

I guess we are talking about a TDA duel, in other case comparing PA WG against terminator DW is a little adventageous by the DA, still, a unit of 10 WG with 10 combi-plasmas, 5 ss and 5 power axes is a lot better and flexible than your once per game twinlinked stormbolters and single plasma cannon, or what else they bring?
So guess what, you can deep strike firts turn, of couerse is a good resourse, but my wolf guard, even in tda can take drop pods and drop on the firts turn (counting that drop pods are deploy with greater accuracy without rrelaying on teleport hommers)

DW are fake loyalists, Wolf Guard are the puppies that need house trained ... I would take my DC any day of the week over either of them... and they do not need TDA.

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
DW are fake loyalists, Wolf Guard are the puppies that need house trained ... I would take my DC any day of the week over either of them... and they do not need TDA.

Either army can wipe out your genetic fallacies

 jreilly89 wrote:

 OIIIIIIO wrote:
DW are fake loyalists, Wolf Guard are the puppies that need house trained ... I would take my DC any day of the week over either of them... and they do not need TDA.

Either army can wipe out your genetic fallacies

I know ... Blood Angels, book of suck since 1996

given the choice between deathwing and wolfguard id take wolfguard on a rules based point of view, power armor is more affordable that TDA units and they will take them down squads at range easier than deathwing will essentially relying on their sinlge heavy weapons choices to do the bulk of their damage, deathwing need to get into CC and with the advent of overwatch if we are considering even ground no dedicated transports, no terrain, no other models on the table the deathwing simply would never get to where they need to go without incurring so many losses any survivors would be at best negligible

If we're talking fluffy 1v1, my money is on SW, hands down. Not because Deathwing aren't fantastic, but because SW don't play by niceties or rules. There's something to be said for unbridled ferocity.

In general, Deathwing would be the better terminators.

Dewathing by far. Smite mode for Deathwing Knights is downright scary considering it can even wreck Imperial Knights. Especially when I'm building a Night Lords army, there better not be any Dark Angel Deathwing lists considering what they can do to Chaos Space Marines.

But fluff wise and TT, the Deathwing wrecks wolf guard. The Deathwing have better equipment (plasma cannons), better leadership, and they wear their goddamn helmets.


Never understood Space Wolves. You get some of the best armor in the universe that's meant to survive anti-armor fire like autocannons... and you leave off you helmet? So you can be instantly dropped with a headshot? Alright then.

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dewathing by far. Smite mode for Deathwing Knights is downright scary considering it can even wreck Imperial Knights. Especially when I'm building a Night Lords army, there better not be any Dark Angel Deathwing lists considering what they can do to Chaos Space Marines.

But fluff wise and TT, the Deathwing wrecks wolf guard. The Deathwing have better equipment (plasma cannons), better leadership, and they wear their goddamn helmets.


Never understood Space Wolves. You get some of the best armor in the universe that's meant to survive anti-armor fire like autocannons... and you leave off you helmet? So you can be instantly dropped with a headshot? Alright then.

Hey, beards block headshots

Why not try it out on TT?

 koooaei wrote:
Why not try it out on TT?

I'm pretty sure there wouldn't even be a contest in melee given smite mode, and it's not like Space Wolves can shoot well either.

 koooaei wrote:
Why not try it out on TT?

Already done, a single PA Lone wolf with SS and TH kill three DW knights, and survive their super saiya mode just to wreck their faces,in fact, the DA player thougt that he could kill my lone wolf with only the "normal" attacks and with the flail of the sgt (its ap3 if my memorie doesnt fail) but after two rounds and three death nights, he became deparate and activate the smite mode (he was saving it form y thunder wolve calvary, the toughtest unit i had in the game) my lone wolve make all his 3++ saves and tied the combat for another round, the next round fail his sv and fnp for a glorious death.
So for the rest of the game, my calvary wreck his RW knights and proceed to feed on with his tacticals, my second lone wolf, with TDA SS and TH, tied the whole game in a b slap contest with the interrogator chaplain (with TDA and fancy relic)
It was a glorious win for the Space wolves

My death company shall pour the death right over all y'all. That said DC aside, DA still. However... WG have better options on the TT

 anyeri wrote:

 koooaei wrote:
Why not try it out on TT?

Already done, a single PA Lone wolf with SS and TH kill three DW knights, and survive their super saiya mode just to wreck their faces,in fact, the DA player thougt that he could kill my lone wolf with only the "normal" attacks and with the flail of the sgt (its ap3 if my memorie doesnt fail) but after two rounds and three death nights, he became deparate and activate the smite mode (he was saving it form y thunder wolve calvary, the toughtest unit i had in the game) my lone wolve make all his 3++ saves and tied the combat for another round, the next round fail his sv and fnp for a glorious death.
So for the rest of the game, my calvary wreck his RW knights and proceed to feed on with his tacticals, my second lone wolf, with TDA SS and TH, tied the whole game in a b slap contest with the interrogator chaplain (with TDA and fancy relic)
It was a glorious win for the Space wolves

That's definitely not a Wolf Guard on Deathwing fight. That's just one lucky guy who's NOT a WG killing way above average and rolling all the 3++. Doesn't support WG in any way.