Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Last week I played at 1250, and had three mobs of trukk riding 'ard boys fail their morale checks against shooting casualties, fail mob rule, fail the bosspole reroll and leg it
... I still won You just have to work with it, rather than against it. ALWAYS bring a character, aim to keep them above 10 bodies, and get them stuck in combat ASAP.
I like the new mob rule, actually. They realized that low leadership is supposed to be a weakness for Orks. The new mob rule makes you pay a price for failing LD rolls, but most of the time, my boyz don't run away. I take a hit, but it's not crushing. It's flavorful. My only complaint is that they couldn't come up with a more elegant rule than rolling on a d6 table. A standard rule always applied in the same way no matter what (d6 hits if you fail LD) would have been better in my opinion, just for simplicity. But overall, I like that even small mobs actually have a chance to pass morale as long as I have a nob.
Project log and campaign featuring Orks, Imperial Guard, Marines, Tyranids: http://www.xhorikwar.blogspot.com/ Currently focused on our Horus Heresy campaign with White Scars, Death Guard and Imperial Militia.
The only thing i don't like with the new mob rule is random wound allocation. Allocating 2 wounds to 25 guyz randomly is a pain. Oh, and no fear resistance at all. There's so much stuff with fear.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 05:00:48
The mob rule is actually one of the strongest points in that codex.
Who else gets to ignore the results of a failed morale check at next to no expense? Seriously the mob rule works just fine. If it were any different you would literally never ever break Orks.
At least the way I see it, the Mob Rule is what makes Orks work.
SGTPozy wrote: You can't just ignore it because you don't like it.
What if I don't like my Fire Warriors being T3? Can I give them T8?
To you, I say that you're comparing apples to oranges. Orks USED to have a different mob rule. Fire Warrios NEVER used to be T8. so there's precedence there.
To the OP, I'd say no. You either play an opponent okay with you using the previous codex, and you ONLY play the previous codex, or you're stuck with the new one. No codex cherry picking.
I keep hearing about groups that use old editions, like groups that only play 3rd or 5th edition. So there's hope for you.
Yeah, Mob rule is great for mobs of 30 cc orks with a nob.
Not so great for anything else. It's a piss poor rule no because it makes the army weak, but because it's a straightjacket for army list construction. Huge mobs and vehicles. No specialists, ever.
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
Not so great for anything else. It's a piss poor rule no because it makes the army weak, but because it's a straightjacket for army list construction. Huge mobs and vehicles. No specialists, ever.
That wasn't brilliant either, but at least you still got something out of it in the 8-9 unit size range. The main issue was that it didn't count Nobz twice.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/01/30 10:43:19
The old meta is dead and the new meta struggles to be born. Now is the time of munchkins.
darkcloak wrote: The mob rule is actually one of the strongest points in that codex.
Who else gets to ignore the results of a failed morale check at next to no expense? Seriously the mob rule works just fine. If it were any different you would literally never ever break Orks.
At least the way I see it, the Mob Rule is what makes Orks work.
To be honest I can see where some people like the Mob rule. The way they play makes it useful or they just happen to get lucky. Or it can suck most of the time. For me is sucks most of the time.
Depending on the unit ( It will either FAIL 100% of the time, or need to roll a 1 in close combat) Against shooting mob rule works better. In close combat the store i go to almost always challenges out the nob so I either have to refuse or the nob will die. (my opponents know not to let him swing).
After all attacks are done in close combat I'm almost always under 10. If i refused the challenge a 1-3 will keep me alive and if I took a supplement attachment where I have to accept or I chose to then the Nob is dead and I have to roll a 1.
The way I see it is that you know the rule is somewhat broken when they added the mek 15 point character, so that you don't have to refuse a challenge and can pay for a substitute death in order to not flee. That's what this unit is. Every forum posting says to do this and nobody talks about taking them to help heal vehicle lists.
Against shooting the mob rule works better. You don't lose LD for losing combat. You almost never get a 30 man boy squad shot down to less than 10. And the nob also doesn't get focused out unless there happen to be precision shots.
Most people only focus on the mob rule for 1 type of phase. You have to count both ways when deciding if this rule needs tweaking. For shooting it seems perfectly capable of benefiting smaller squads. They have a double chance to pass. In close combat they have a (16.67% to 50% chance to pass. More often then not it's 16.67%.... if you're orky.
Asterios wrote: Orks got nerfed plain and simple, I miss the days when orks loved to fight, now they are too scared to.
Some things got nerfed. Like flash gitz with t-shirts? Please.
But what didn't get nerfed? Waaagh! Seriously, turn two on your Waaagh you can move 12, run 2d6 (take a dangerous terrain check), and finally charge 2d6 with the ability to reroll one die. I love storm Boyz. Stock Boyz having a charge threat range of 24 on turn two. YES.
Yet I've played maybe 10-12 games with the new mob rule, and I've maybe failed all three checks three times total. This isn't including when there is only like 3 Boyz left against an mc. As long as you bring two characters with you to cc you should be fine morale wise. And let's be straight, any fight you failed morale to twice is a combat you weren't going to win anyways. Which makes me think, new mob rule v would help out more with tarpitting.
Asterios wrote: Orks got nerfed plain and simple, I miss the days when orks loved to fight, now they are too scared to.
I'd strongly disagree with this.
The current codex is far stronger than the last.
As to the mob rule, it now benefits smaller unit which the last rule didn't. As the new book makes smaller units more of an option, this is a nice benefit. Larger mobs barely notice a few hits.
So no, I wouldn't want to go back to the old mob rule.
Det Thyge wrote: How did the old one work differently from the new one?
The 4th edition mob rule was Ld=unit size (if you choose). 11+ models = Fearless.
3rd edition was if you fail a morale or pinning, roll 2D6. If the result was equal to or less than the number of Ork models (not counting Gretchin) they ignored it.
Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia
New mob rule is awesome. If an ork unit takes a morale with 10 boys and a nob with bp, it will literally only fail 1% of the time.
After they drop to below 10, where old mob rule would have them start running, the new one keeps them up 75% of the time. These chances get even better in combat.
I've gone against old and 7orks several times each with my BA. (The guy I literally play most is an ork player.) old dex I'd just neuter a squad down to size then sweep it. New dex they keep turning fearless thanks to mob rule, even when their unit is almost dead, maybe losing a single boy for it, and then hold me in combat long enough for another ork unit to charge in and murder me.
The new mob rule is really not that terrible. Yes, it's not as objectively good as before. Not having straight up Fearless sucks. But making it so my smaller squads of Orks that old Mob Rule never worked for is nice. The potential wounds taken by it are often inconsequential and worth keeping the mob in place, as they WILL get swept a vast majority of the time should they break. Not to mention it continues to DO something even if you're below 10 models.
The only part we ignore in my group is randomly dealing the wounds. We just take from the front most times to make it easier.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/02/11 21:57:25
darkcloak wrote: The mob rule is actually one of the strongest points in that codex.
Who else gets to ignore the results of a failed morale check at next to no expense?
Space Marines?
Actually, Space Marines still have to retreat after a failed test. Only Orks get a second chance, and even then it is most likely that the Orks will not retreat.
darkcloak wrote: The mob rule is actually one of the strongest points in that codex.
Who else gets to ignore the results of a failed morale check at next to no expense? Seriously the mob rule works just fine. If it were any different you would literally never ever break Orks.
At least the way I see it, the Mob Rule is what makes Orks work.
To be honest I can see where some people like the Mob rule. The way they play makes it useful or they just happen to get lucky. Or it can suck most of the time. For me is sucks most of the time.
Depending on the unit ( It will either FAIL 100% of the time, or need to roll a 1 in close combat) Against shooting mob rule works better. In close combat the store i go to almost always challenges out the nob so I either have to refuse or the nob will die. (my opponents know not to let him swing).
After all attacks are done in close combat I'm almost always under 10. If i refused the challenge a 1-3 will keep me alive and if I took a supplement attachment where I have to accept or I chose to then the Nob is dead and I have to roll a 1.
The way I see it is that you know the rule is somewhat broken when they added the mek 15 point character, so that you don't have to refuse a challenge and can pay for a substitute death in order to not flee. That's what this unit is. Every forum posting says to do this and nobody talks about taking them to help heal vehicle lists.
Against shooting the mob rule works better. You don't lose LD for losing combat. You almost never get a 30 man boy squad shot down to less than 10. And the nob also doesn't get focused out unless there happen to be precision shots.
Most people only focus on the mob rule for 1 type of phase. You have to count both ways when deciding if this rule needs tweaking. For shooting it seems perfectly capable of benefiting smaller squads. They have a double chance to pass. In close combat they have a (16.67% to 50% chance to pass. More often then not it's 16.67%.... if you're orky.
To be fair, 15pt Meks have been a blessing. And no one uses them for vehicle heal lists because Ork vehicles suck. It takes very little to break them down, and using those Meks to heal 1HP unreliably is not worth it. I'd rather them be challenge fodder. If I were running a strict Ork Walker/Wagon spam list, then yes, they would be used for vehicle repairing where challenges don't matter. Until Vehicles become worth using for more than suicide missions, Meks will be challenge eaters.
darkcloak wrote: The mob rule is actually one of the strongest points in that codex.
Who else gets to ignore the results of a failed morale check at next to no expense? Seriously the mob rule works just fine. If it were any different you would literally never ever break Orks.
At least the way I see it, the Mob Rule is what makes Orks work.
To be honest I can see where some people like the Mob rule. The way they play makes it useful or they just happen to get lucky. Or it can suck most of the time. For me is sucks most of the time.
Depending on the unit ( It will either FAIL 100% of the time, or need to roll a 1 in close combat) Against shooting mob rule works better. In close combat the store i go to almost always challenges out the nob so I either have to refuse or the nob will die. (my opponents know not to let him swing).
After all attacks are done in close combat I'm almost always under 10. If i refused the challenge a 1-3 will keep me alive and if I took a supplement attachment where I have to accept or I chose to then the Nob is dead and I have to roll a 1.
The way I see it is that you know the rule is somewhat broken when they added the mek 15 point character, so that you don't have to refuse a challenge and can pay for a substitute death in order to not flee. That's what this unit is. Every forum posting says to do this and nobody talks about taking them to help heal vehicle lists.
Against shooting the mob rule works better. You don't lose LD for losing combat. You almost never get a 30 man boy squad shot down to less than 10. And the nob also doesn't get focused out unless there happen to be precision shots.
Most people only focus on the mob rule for 1 type of phase. You have to count both ways when deciding if this rule needs tweaking. For shooting it seems perfectly capable of benefiting smaller squads. They have a double chance to pass. In close combat they have a (16.67% to 50% chance to pass. More often then not it's 16.67%.... if you're orky.
To be fair, 15pt Meks have been a blessing. And no one uses them for vehicle heal lists because Ork vehicles suck. It takes very little to break them down, and using those Meks to heal 1HP unreliably is not worth it. I'd rather them be challenge fodder. If I were running a strict Ork Walker/Wagon spam list, then yes, they would be used for vehicle repairing where challenges don't matter. Until Vehicles become worth using for more than suicide missions, Meks will be challenge eaters.
They're well worth it in a Stompa.
Also for Mek gun units, as they sadly no longer get a Runtherd.
darkcloak wrote: The mob rule is actually one of the strongest points in that codex.
Who else gets to ignore the results of a failed morale check at next to no expense? Seriously the mob rule works just fine. If it were any different you would literally never ever break Orks.
At least the way I see it, the Mob Rule is what makes Orks work.
To be honest I can see where some people like the Mob rule. The way they play makes it useful or they just happen to get lucky. Or it can suck most of the time. For me is sucks most of the time.
Depending on the unit ( It will either FAIL 100% of the time, or need to roll a 1 in close combat) Against shooting mob rule works better. In close combat the store i go to almost always challenges out the nob so I either have to refuse or the nob will die. (my opponents know not to let him swing).
After all attacks are done in close combat I'm almost always under 10. If i refused the challenge a 1-3 will keep me alive and if I took a supplement attachment where I have to accept or I chose to then the Nob is dead and I have to roll a 1.
The way I see it is that you know the rule is somewhat broken when they added the mek 15 point character, so that you don't have to refuse a challenge and can pay for a substitute death in order to not flee. That's what this unit is. Every forum posting says to do this and nobody talks about taking them to help heal vehicle lists.
Against shooting the mob rule works better. You don't lose LD for losing combat. You almost never get a 30 man boy squad shot down to less than 10. And the nob also doesn't get focused out unless there happen to be precision shots.
Most people only focus on the mob rule for 1 type of phase. You have to count both ways when deciding if this rule needs tweaking. For shooting it seems perfectly capable of benefiting smaller squads. They have a double chance to pass. In close combat they have a (16.67% to 50% chance to pass. More often then not it's 16.67%.... if you're orky.
To be fair, 15pt Meks have been a blessing. And no one uses them for vehicle heal lists because Ork vehicles suck. It takes very little to break them down, and using those Meks to heal 1HP unreliably is not worth it. I'd rather them be challenge fodder. If I were running a strict Ork Walker/Wagon spam list, then yes, they would be used for vehicle repairing where challenges don't matter. Until Vehicles become worth using for more than suicide missions, Meks will be challenge eaters.
They're well worth it in a Stompa.
Also for Mek gun units, as they sadly no longer get a Runtherd.
Stompa is quite possibly the only thing worth using them in. MAYBE a Morkanaught if you really wanted to. I've done that a few times, but they usually go to waste. But yes, In Stompas, you run a Mek Workshop to keep the sucker krumpin.
I usually put a Big Mek with the Mek Gunz, using a Shokk Attack Gun. Give em better leadership and also add another juicy pie plate to the mix ;p Plus give the Mek T7
You just have to work with it, rather than against it. ALWAYS bring a character, aim to keep them above 10 bodies, and get them stuck in combat ASAP.
5000
Who knows? 
20000+ points
