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Yeah...

When a unit gets TOO much of everything...yesterday, we had a game with my friend and he wanted to proxy the Sicaran Battle Tank and since we wasn´t filming, i was cool with it. BUT, the rules for that, oh my godz! Accelerator Autocannon first. Its a 48" S7 AP4 heavy 6, Rending, with rapid tracking (ignores jink saves). Yeah AND twin-linked. You can get a relic to get TANK HUNTER, and for larger games another, that can knock of Haywire. Once / game Interceptor/Skyfire...Did i mention the Ceramic Plating option? And AV13 ALL AROUND...this is when Forge World just puts EVERYTHING in to one tank. I told my friend, that this could be the unit (get a character, was it a Chaplain? Can´t remember and you can get THREE of these), that i would just not play against. And it´s cheap without any upgrades, about a predator with all lascannons...thank the dicegodz my friend thought it "a bit" OP too...i sometimes use my Forge World Hornet´s and even thou they are cheap and great, you can actually KILL THEM...they have weaknesses....that tank does not...that´s the kind of unit that takes the fun out of the game IMHO...

Does someone use these? How does the opponent look like, when i whip it out of the case? Are these used in some tournaments?

- Lost Vyper

I think that the AV for the Sicaran has been faq'ed to be 12 at the side and rear, the AV 13 all round is a misprint iirc. Not sure if that helps your annoyances but it's something . Aside from that one can only have one of them in a non Heresy army since it's a relic of the armory whcih are limited to one iirc.

Not as bad as Wave serpent, invisibility, unbound lists. 5 sternguard in a drop pod will kill it.

I've never had anyone complain when I use one, but I don't put any Legacies of Glory on it.

It was FAQ'd (in 2013) to have Side and Rear Armour of 12, and it's more expensive than a Predator.

Sounds like someone got their wave serpents shot down for the 1st time to me. But yes, they are too good for their cost, even at 13/12/12 and without legacies. What else do you expect from forgeworld though?

And Gertjan, there are certain HQ choices (such as a MotF) that let you take multiple Relic vehicles. I normally take a Sicaran and a Whirlwind Scorpius with my Iron Hands.

It's a strong unit for the points but side armour 12 and being a big model can make it easy pray. Normally the only people that I've seen refuse to play against it are eldar or dark eldar, I find that quite amusing considering their options (mainly eldar)
Personally I'm all for things ignoring jinks but I do find the relic upgrades or what ever there called are a step to far.

Ceramtic plating should be removed from the game!

The problem with the Sicaran tank is that it is a hard counter to certain armies (namely skimmer heavy armies). While this seems fine against Eldar (since they are very competitive and it countered one of the best untis in the game) against more balanced armies like Dark Eldar it is a slap in the face for players already struggling to remain competitive.

depends on game size and lists. Never seen it do much of anything other than kill a few troops.

Leman Russ's tend to blow it up in turn 2 easily.

beast_gts wrote:
And Gertjan, there are certain HQ choices (such as a MotF) that let you take multiple Relic vehicles. I normally take a Sicaran and a Whirlwind Scorpius with my Iron Hands.

Ah yes, I knew I was forgetting about something there. That'll teach me saying stuff from the top of my head rather than looking it up.

Drasius wrote:
Sounds like someone got their wave serpents shot down for the 1st time to me. But yes, they are too good for their cost, even at 13/12/12 and without legacies. What else do you expect from forgeworld though?

Forge World units aren't universally overpowered so I don't get your 'what do you expect from FW' comment.

The Sicaran is balanced at the top end of the game. Is it more powerful/cheesy/broken then wave serpents, riptides, etc? It’s not like overpowered units are the exclusive purview of FW. That said, I’d rather the game was balanced against the midline units, and not the exceptional ones. But as long as units that are solidly better then others exists, we can expect to see them on the table.

I think it’s got a few too many shiny features and options for it’s points. IMHO it’s not crossed the line to overpowered brokeness, but it’s close.

Its a great vehicle. Its supposed to be more powerful than a wave serpent. Using that argument is stupid. Its a transport versus a main battle tank, the battle tank is supposed to win EVERY time.

Are you guys sure its twin linked? I am pretty sure in my red book it is not twin linked.

Its well worth the costly points you pay for it. I pay the points for ceramite and lascannons as well.Its more expensive than a predator and is a little bit better accordingly. Very fairly priced.

Absolutely sure it is twinlinked, in all versions of the rules.

I placed this also on another forum and all i got was "Eldar themselves are OP, Wave Serpents, blahblahblah" - add baby cry here comments. THANK YOU people, for quality answers and thoughts here, i appreciate it! That AV12 on the rear and sides -info would have helped thou and i agree, that the WS IS tough. BUT...as for the Sicaran, so does the WS fall for the Sternguard drop podding in...and i had 0 WS´s in this game, it was Dark Eldar/Iyanden list, but the Raiders took "some" hits. We have banned Invisibility from our games, it´s just easier (more fun) that way. It´s too bad, there´s no Tau -player in our FLGC, i would like to face some Riptides. I have seen them in action and they can be tough, with that 2+/5++/FNP -combo. We had a great game last week, where we agreed ahead of time, that we don´t take fliers. That was a fun game! Rhinos and Land Speeders and such, oh my!

I have a Sicaran, and while I don't use the Legacies of Glory, only once has it survived past Turn 2. AV13 is incredibly easy to destroy in this edition if you focus on it.

Also, I like that it can be melta immune with armored ceramite. Anything that breaks up the meta and forces people to come out of their comfort zone and adapt can only be a good thing.

Yeah although armored ceramite sucks balls if you have a Ravenwing army, since melta is your only anti-tank solution.

Is it the best tank in the game? Yep...

Is it forge-world? Yep....

Somehow I'm not surpized it costs over 120 bucks to get one shipped to the states.

Is it better than an IK? not really.

A Sicaran's base cost is 135 IIRC.

A Knight costs close to 400.

It isn't, and shouldn't be, a comparison.

It is probably around 35-50 points too cheap, but speaking from a CSM view, rather than SM, that's just fine right now.

 Silverthorne wrote:
Yeah although armored ceramite sucks balls if you have a Ravenwing army, since melta is your only anti-tank solution.

Amusingly, melta bombs do not have the melta rule, and bypass the ceramite.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Ceramtic plating should be removed from the game!

Especially when the Monolith had to lose it's immune to Melta rule while Imperial vehicles can still have it...

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Silverthorne wrote:
Yeah although armored ceramite sucks balls if you have a Ravenwing army, since melta is your only anti-tank solution.

Amusingly, melta bombs do not have the melta rule, and bypass the ceramite.

Plus it's only armour 12, so still relatively easy to hurt without the melta rule, especially if you've got Melta as your only anti tank option and so likely have a fair bit of it.

You still get the bonus to damage results for AP, and if it's on a mobile platform like a bike, you can always try and hit it up the jacksie for AV11.

 Azreal13 wrote:
A Sicaran's base cost is 135 IIRC.

A Knight costs close to 400.

It isn't, and shouldn't be, a comparison.

It is probably around 35-50 points too cheap, but speaking from a CSM view, rather than SM, that's just fine right now.

the comparison I was drawing was that sicarians aren't that bad when you can get an IK for about twice the price.

It's not the most underpriced unit in the game... but it clearly is somewhat underpriced compared to the other SM tanks (maybe SM tanks just need a price drop, or a stat boost).

The Sicaran is fine, perhaps it could cost a bit more but other than that. It´s a good counter to serpents and it is also easy to destroy if you play even a relatively competitive list. If you don't, well, you´ll have trouble with a lot more things than the Sicaran.

The Sicaran is good, something that is welcome for CSM as they are not very competitive (outside of certain builds, mostly Nurgle). It's also a nice model and a good counter for the unbalanced Jink. Having something that makes bikes and Wave Serpents less powerful can only be a good thing.

It is NOT however broken, cheesy or "the most d-bag unit ever". Not even near.

Drasius wrote:Sounds like someone got their wave serpents shot down for the 1st time to me. But yes, they are too good for their cost, even at 13/12/12 and without legacies. What else do you expect from forgeworld though?

Hm... an army of over-costed guardsmen with poor weapon options and a couple of nice fliers and/or vehicles. That's pretty much what I expect from Forge World, to be honest.

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:Ceramtic plating should be removed from the game!

Here, here!

Ceramite is 20 points, not like its a cheap upgrade. I have never used or looked at the legacies since I play 30k armies and as far as I am aware, we don't have access to them, I will agree some of them sound broken, but then since its FW, they probably cost a lot of points.

 DanielBeaver wrote:
It's not the most underpriced unit in the game... but it clearly is somewhat underpriced compared to the other SM tanks (maybe SM tanks just need a price drop, or a stat boost).

The last part is correct. LasPreds are costed okay, but everything else is overcosted for effectiveness. Land Raiders die too easily, Whirlwinds have no real advantage if you just find 35 points for a TFC, Stalkers and Hunters have more limited applications, and Land Speeders die by having something mean stare at them.
The Sicaran was a godsend for the Marine players that like vehicles.