Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am starting to get into the Astra Militarum, and it seems like a Leman Russ is required in even a 500 pt. list. The list I'e been working on has two squads of Melta Vets in Chimeras with bolters, vox-casters, and grenadiers as the core. This makes the seemingly obligatory Leman Russ difficult to fit in with a decent CCS. Is there any way I can run this list to either: A. fit the Vets, Leman Russ, and a decent CCS, or B. field a remotely competitive list without a Leman Russ?

It isn't mandatory, but it's great in a 500 point game. Many players don't bring anything that can deal with AV 14 effectively in a 500 point game, and even if you expect AV 14 it's difficult to bring a good counter while simultaneously dealing with flyers, hordes, etc. And whatever you do about the LRBT cut your other stuff down to a minimum, at 500 points you shouldn't even be considering luxuries like carapace armor or voxes.

 Peregrine wrote:
It isn't mandatory, but it's great in a 500 point game. Many players don't bring anything that can deal with AV 14 effectively in a 500 point game, and even if you expect AV 14 it's difficult to bring a good counter while simultaneously dealing with flyers, hordes, etc. And whatever you do about the LRBT cut your other stuff down to a minimum, at 500 points you shouldn't even be considering luxuries like carapace armor or voxes.

It depends a lot on what one expects to face.

If I face a bound list of two tactical marine squads and a captain, then it's one thing.

If I face an unbound list consisting of a Riptide and some Broadsides, then it's another.

You have to accept that you can't get all the little things you want especially at low point levels. Even in a bigger army I'd seriously question upgrading vet squads so lavishly. Those vet squads with all the stuff you wanted take up so many points it'd be impossible to buy a transport for the command squad (you do want the commander to keep up with the troops, yes?), let alone a Russ.

A tank costs somewhere around 150 points, leaving you 350 for an HQ and two troops. Before upgrades two vet squads in chimeras costs 250 points, leaving about 100 points for HQ and upgrades. You can't buy a third chimera with this points budget, not even if you got the cheapest possible Russ and no squad upgrades. The alternative that I think leaves your concept most intact is to switch to a Lord Commissar for the HQ. He can ride with one of the vet squads and you'd have enough points left over to give them a few guns.

Completely different alternative: A Russ leaves you with enough points for a CCS and two minimal infantry platoons. An AV14 tank and 55 men at 500 points.

And no of course a Russ isn't mandatory.

 Ashiraya wrote:
It depends a lot on what one expects to face.

If I face a bound list of two tactical marine squads and a captain, then it's one thing.

If I face an unbound list consisting of a Riptide and some Broadsides, then it's another.

And this is why:

1) Unbound is a bad idea and GW should be embarrassed that they published something so stupid.

2) Low-point games are rock/paper/scissors where you choose your hard-to-counter unit (AV 14, flyer, etc) and hope that your opponent doesn't bring a list that beats yours. There's no such thing as a TAC list at 500 points.

Conclusion: if you're going to play 500 point games you need to impose additional limits on what units can be taken. No high-AV vehicles, no flyers, limited MCs/terminators/etc, limited total model count, limited psykers. Do that and it can be a fun game. Play it strictly by the book and you might as well just exchange lists and award a victory to the person that wins the rock/paper/scissors metagame.

A Russ isn't mandatory whatsoever. I'm up to 2.5k (soon to upgrade to 3k when I finish scratch building a Marauder Destroyer) and have no Leman Russ at all.

Hell, the only vehicles I have really are Artillery.

I won't win tournaments with my list but I can have extreme amounts of fun in friendly games.

You can fit an eradicator russ with heavybolters. It's a bit cheaper and has an important niche - killing troops. Besides, it's gonabe a great buddy for pasknisher in higher pt games. While LRBT is often considered overpriced for what it does due to ordnance. Meltavets are allready enough to deal with vehicles and heavy infantry imo.

Anywayz, always magnetize russ's weapons. There are many good options for the tank depending on the rest of your list.

And imo, russ is not mandatory. It's a solid tank but you can do without it too.

You can face a bound 500 list with a riptide and a pair of broadsides;

Cadre Fireblade
6x Fire warriors
6x Fire warriors
1x Riptide, IA, EWO
2x Broadsides, HYMP, SMS, EWO
498

Though I would make a counter offer of;

Vanquisher, Lascannon, MM sponson, Tank Commander
Executioner, PC Sponsons
10x Vets, Chimera
10x Vets, Chimera

If you really must have Melta Vets in Chims, then about your only option to remain mounted is;

CCS, Chim
10x Vets, 2x Melta, Chim
10x Vets, 2x Melta, Chim
1x Wyvern

and you've got ~20 points left to accessorise. Or save some points and exchange the chims for Taurox.

I'd say to scrimp on the ccs or maybe get a cheap commissar to lead, let the vets do the work.

I would advice against bringing a Russ to a 500 pts game, simply because some armies at that level won't have the tools to take it down and those games will be boring.

CSS + 2 Veteran squads all in Chimeras is a good build at 500 pts. Spend remaining points on special and heavy weapons.

At 500 pts infantry hordes are also viable in my opinion. CSS and two platoons. Add heavy and special weapons.

imo you need leman. try this list

1)leman russ demolisher
. side-sponson mullti-meltas
(that will get past any tanks)

2) 10 vets in chimera
.grenadiers
.1 melta

3) 10 vets
.grenadiers
.1 melta
. 1 flamer

4) CCS
.flag or a weapon of some sort

there, that should be a good list with vets, ccs and leman about 500pts

Demo + multi melta doesn't go well together

So don't use LR, because it will be too good? What kind of advice is this?

not sure if I am just missing something then, but cant you take LRBT Command Squads?

In that case, wouldn't you be able to take a pair of the all-rounder tanks (I think they are 170 points to threaten literally everything), which leaves 160 points to take the troops.

Not too familiar with Astra Miliwhatnot, so I might be mistaken, but two cents is two cents

 IHateNids wrote:
not sure if I am just missing something then, but cant you take LRBT Command Squads?

In that case, wouldn't you be able to take a pair of the all-rounder tanks (I think they are 170 points to threaten literally everything), which leaves 160 points to take the troops.

Not too familiar with Astra Miliwhatnot, so I might be mistaken, but two cents is two cents

Threaten everything, but nothing too much.

IMO you're best served with a Punisher, Eradicator, or Exterminator w/ Multimeltas. Probably in that order.

You could fit 2 Russes in 500 if you really minimized your Troops selections.

2 Vet Squads, Grenadiers & Autocannon: 170

TC: 30
Punisher w/ Multimeltas: 160
Eradicator w/ Multimeltas: 140


500 points on the nose.

It's a lot of eggs in one basket, but it's a mini Deathstar that can handle pretty much everything you'll realistically see at 500 points. Even against Fliers, 4 snap-shooting Multimeltas aren't peanuts.

Thank you for all of the advice!! I'm planning on ordering the Cadian Defense Force tomorrow, so I'll have a LRBT to work with anyway. However, I'm considering making more of a Blob-Guard list as my army gets larger, focusing on platoons with a squad or two of Melta-Vets in Chimeras or Scions in Valkyries as a strike force. Is Blob-Guard still viable?

And this is why you do not play 500 point games without composition rules because you get silly things like Leman Russes and Riptides.

We always made these rules mandatory with nids being an exception.
We always played these in leagues:
No vehicles with more than an AV12 facing, max of 32 total including shields
No flyers, period
Nothing with more than 2 wounds
No 2+ saves or invul saves at all.
No named characters.
30 min max games.
0-1 HQ, 1+ troop, 0-1 each elite, FA, heavy. One floating FA, elite, heavy slot.

Made for good learning games and how to use the basic units much more efficiently and reflected that games this small were in fact nothing more than recon probes so none of the big toys or important people would be doing this anyway.