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Okay, so I'm doing a bit of a theoretical deep dive and examination of several of the "worthless" or 'not usable' units in the Chaos Space Marine Codexes. In this post I'm going to post my take and analysis of the unit in question, and then I'd like feed on the unit and my analysis. I’ve already begun threads of the same type that deal with the Thousand Sons, Khorne Berzerkers and Forgefiends. This thread I want to look at the HelBrute. For consistency sake I will be referring to the unit in question as a HelBrute and not a Chaos Dreadnought.


So, what do we get for the HelBrute? Lets take a look at it. It’s base cost is 100 points and for that 100 points you get a WS/BS 4 S6 walker with 12 front and side armor and 10 rear armor. It’s initiative 4 with 2 attacks and 3 hull points. It starts with a Multi-melta, and a power fist that can add a twin-linked bolter for 5 points. Stat-wise it’s point for point a direct match to it’s loyalist counterpart, the Space Marine Dreadnought. It does need to be noted that the Dreadnought does come with search light and smoke launchers as standard while the HelBrute does not have access to upgrades. While there are considerable similarities between the HelBrute and Dreadnought, and on the surface it seems like the helBrute is coming up short in comparison to the Dreadnought. While I can follow the logic of this thought, I am going to disagree with it for reasons I will explain later in this post. I want to finish looking at the HelBrute as a unit before I get going on battle field role and uses.

The largest difference between a HelBrute and a Dreadnought is the “Crazed” special rule for the HelBrute. The short version of this rule is that the HelBrute is totally 100% with-out recourse crazy, so when it is shot at or takes damage it get angry. When it takes a glancing hit or a penetrating but isn’t destroyed, you roll a D3 and look at a chart to see what the big guy does. On a 1 the dreadnought can not move and fires all of it’s weapons at the closest target. Twice. And preferably the target the caused the hit. So I’ve got a reaper auto-cannon and a power fist with a twin-linked bolter. That I now fire twice. Okay, not a negative. It can be problematic due to the immobilization effect from the roll, but if it’s in the open it’s a nice result that will dish out some serious pain.

On a result of 2 the HelBrute gets Rage and immediately recovers from crew shaken and crew stunned results. Hmm… what oh what am I ever going to do with a HelBrute that now gets 2 attacks on the charge? Yeah, I’m gonna charge something if I can. Lastly if I roll a 3 it gets blood rage, which is the same as the 2 result but it gains fleet in addition to rage and it must run toward the closest enemy unit.

Okay, so a bit of not-exactly good special rule that adds a lot of character to the HelBrute. Okay that’s really a negative but I can see how it falls under the “Reasons I don’t want to use this unit” column. So what about options for the big brute? Well it’s got a decent list of options but they are all weapons and none of them really change what it is. I’ll explain what I mean after I go over the options.

It can replace it’s multi-melta with a 2[sup]nd[/sup] power fist, a Twin-linked heavy bolter, a reaper autocannon, a Plasma cannon, or a Twin-linked Lascannon. Okay so I can exchange it’s short-ranged weapon for a second close combat weapon or other ranged weapons. Nothing really bad among the lot. Plasma cannon is nice in itself, and the Helbrute is one of the few platforms in the Chaos space marine Codex that can take one so if you’re looking to do a plasma cannon thing it has the option. A Twin-linked Lascanon is never a bad option, but this does make the HelBrute 125 points. Not bad over all.

It has a further 2 more options where it can replace any power fist with a Thunder Hammer or a Power Scourge. The Thunder hammer is a bit of an interesting option for the HelBrute. It’s effectively a power fist that is also concussive. At the surface it seems rather mediocre to be on a HelBrute, a further 5 points for something it essentially already has. I’ll be honest, when I was assembling this write up I tried to find a way to reliably make use of the Thunderhammer on a HelBrute, and I did find some situations where it could give the edge to the HelBrute. If it were facing a WraithLord for instance. Both the Wratihlord and HelBurte will be striking at I4 S10 AP2 while both are hitting on 4s. If the HelBrute has a Power Fist and Thunder hammer it has the same number of attacks as a the Wraithlord. So both combatants would be very evenly matched in the fight. Assuming that the fight goes on longer than 1 round, the 2[sup]nd[/sup] round will likely go to the Helbrute because of the concussive special rule from the Thunder Hammer. The Wraith Lord will be striking at I1, unless it suffered 0 wounds in the first round. See what I mean? Yes, the Thunder Hammer can be used but the benefits of it are so stream lined and situational I’m thinking it’s not worth taking. Have a different view on the Thunder Hammer? Lets talk about it. I welcome others views on it.

The other option, the Power scourge is a new entry to the weapon options though it was originally meant to be a means to use the ‘power rake’ from the 2[sup]nd[/sup] Edition metal Chaos Dreadnought model in the current game. It’s a S8 AP2 weapon that causes all models in base contact to loose D3 from their WS. Okay, that is note worthy. Hey Mr. Wraith Lord! I’m gonna come charge you! Oh lookie you’re WS 2 now. So I hit you on 3+ while you hit me on 4+.

Now, I said earlier that I didn’t consider the lack of smoke launchers or Search light to be a negative for the HelBrute in comparison to Loyalist Dreadnoughts. My reasoning for this is one of story and fluff. Loyalists look to their Dreadnoughts as beacons of inspiration, links to their glorious past and icons of valor. Being placed into the armored sarcophagus of a dreadnought is considered a great honor, and one reserved for the most honored and revered of the Chapters heroes. A Chaos HelBrute… erm… well it’s more of an eternal punishment. Basically, we’re going to take you, shove into this wet, dark hole in this body that is going to physically violate you in ways you don’t want to imagine. It’s literally going to shove rustly metal spikes into your skull to grow disgusting sickly tentacles into your brain that will very likely drive you insane. Oh, and then it gets worse. Yeah everything I just said was going to happen to you? That’s going to be eternal. And on very rare occasions we’ll take that pulsing blob of mass that will be your body and stick into that armored body so we can basically wind you and point you at the enemy.

For the forces of Chaos, HelBrute are an ugly means to an end. They are the ability to use what was probably a former rival for power in the warband but was a highly skilled warrior in their own right, and turn them into a weapon. They’re not intended to be tactically effective the way a Dreadnought is. So while the loyalist dreadnought gets a searchlight and smoke launchers, I think the lack of them is a good example of how while there can be similar units in different armies, the armies do not use them the same way and they are not valued the same to each army, fluff wise.
Now, discussing the use of the HelBrute has gotten a bit more involved since the 6[sup]th[/sup] edition Chaos Space Marine codex was released. Initially a HelBrute was contending for list space with the likes of Chosen, Possessed, Chaos Terminators, Mutilators, Khorne Berzerkers, Nurgle Plague Marines, Slaanesh Noise Marines, and Thousand Son Marines. Yikes, that’s a pretty heavy elites section. And even though 2 of those units can be moved to troops easily enough, with the selection of a properly marked lord and/or Sorcerer, that still leaves a lot of options to compete for space from that section of the list. Want some Mid-range firepower? Those Noise Marines look pretty good. Staying Power? A 5 man unit of Plague Marines are going to stick around longer then a HelBrute. And then the rest of the Elites section is a bit of a so-so fest anyway. I’ve already talked about the Thousand Sons and Khorne Berzerkers in their own respective threads, and I’ll be talking about Mutilators, Chosen and Possessed in the near future. But over all the HelBrute really appears something of a really cool concept that’s a so-so unit in game, that’s competing with numerous other so-so units.

Now I had said things had changed somewhat since the Codex was published. Did the Helbrute get some FAQ love? Well, yes it did. It dropped from 105 to it’s current 100, and it got some clarification of rules but nothing really earth-shattering from that direction. No, what the HelBrute got was a Data Slate with 3 new formations. Since Formations are used outside of detachments this sort of removes the “competing with the rest of the elite section’ dilemma for the HelBrute.

The first of the formations is known as the HelFist Murderpack. Basically it’s a squad of HelBrutes with one of them acting as the ‘champion’. The Pack Leader is the lynch pin in this formation. Firstly it’s a character so it can issue and accept Challenges. So you can play some musical wounds with Look out Sir rolls and a WarpSmith that’s close by. Also, so long as the Pack leader is alive you get to choose what effect from the Crazed table applies to ALL of the Helbrutes in the formation. Oh those Orks shot at me, guess who’s getting charged? If the pack Leader is killed all the other HelBrutes gain the rage special rule. So the Helfist Murderpack… yesss this looks fun.

The Second formation is meant to be a bone thrown to Word Bearer players. It’s called The HelCult. The idea is that some Chaos Forces look at Helbrutes as some form of altar to the gods or avatar of them, so they will fight close to it in order to be seen by the gods. The Helcult represents this by allowing you to deploy a HelBrute with 2 units of Chaos Cultists as a single unit. In short, your HelBrute now has 70 ablative wounds. The Helbrute also gains the Rage special rule in this formation, but when it is in combat any to-hits of 1 are taken on the Cultists. So… okay. You’ve got 70 of ‘em right? A nice extra is that the Cultists and the Helbrute both have fearless so long as the HelBrute is alive. Nice little option for objective camping.

Lastly we have the Mayhem pack, a 3 HelBrute formation. So you take 3 HelBrutes, get ‘em really pissed off, and then deep strike them onto the field. Oh, and they have It Will Not Die. Okay, I am liking this. This formation does a bit of a foot note to it with the crazed rule. Basically in this formation, you make a single roll on the Crazed table at the beginning of the movement phase each turn and apply the result to all of the HelBrutes in the formation.

So yeah, HelBrutes got some nice game-love with the new formations. Still, it’s rare to see these debased, evil constructs on the field.
Well I think there are 2 major reasons for this. Firstly, vehicles over all simply aren’t as powerful as they once were. They are still good for what they are, but on the whole vehicles aren’t the monsters that they once were. While this isn’t something explicitly about the HelBrute, it does suffer from the fall out from it. Armor 12 can easily be glanced to death by… well… a lot of things. Plasma guns, Autocannons, Missile Launchers, Vibro Cannons, the list goes on. And anything that’s S8 or better is even more likely to glance away it’s 3 HPs if not destroy it outright. So the HelBrute is a victim of the Vehicle nerfing that came down in 6[sup]th[/sup] and 7[sup]th[/sup] edition.

The second reason I think we don’t see the HelBrute very often is it’s really only a so-so unit. It’s best strength is in close combat, but it’s outclassed by the Maulerfiend, while it can be outshot by… well… almost anything in the codex. A group of Noise Marines can lay down more shots then a HelBrute can. Ranged Tank busting ability? Winged Daemon Prince. Anti-infantry? The HelDrake. The HelBrute is good at all of these things, but it’s out classed by other units in the codex to say nothing of allies.

So that’s my take on the Chaos HelBrute. You’re thoughts?

I've never regarded the 'Brute as useless, they're not competitive, but they're a lot better than what most people make them out to be.

I like your ideas and I think I'll take them more often now...

The Formation and the point reduction are what save the unit with the special rules they get.

I played the Mayhem pack formation for one game and found it very fun and effective as a nice enemy line distraction. But like everything for chaos, it's random and unpredictable. Two deep struck in fine, but the third got mishapped and delayed twice. The two that landed did multi melt a few leman russes, and punch out a command squad, so it was a very entertaining game.

Theyre thematic. You have to build the list with Helbrutes in mind.

They're terrible without the formations overall. Mayhem might be the best one overall, as you can throw your shooty brutes in a safe place and just peck away at your opponent.

Maverike_prime wrote:
The Second formation is meant to be a bone thrown to Word Bearer players. It’s called The HelCult. The idea is that some Chaos Forces look at Helbrutes as some form of altar to the gods or avatar of them, so they will fight close to it in order to be seen by the gods. The Helcult represents this by allowing you to deploy a HelBrute with 2 units of Chaos Cultists as a single unit. In short, your HelBrute now has 70 ablative wounds. The Helbrute also gains the Rage special rule in this formation, but when it is in combat any to-hits of 1 are taken on the Cultists. So… okay. You’ve got 70 of ‘em right? A nice extra is that the Cultists and the Helbrute both have fearless so long as the HelBrute is alive. Nice little option for objective camping.

They don't 'mob up' into a single unit - it's two normal, seperate squads, and an independent helbrute. This is good, because you can (for example) leave one of your fearless cultist mobs behind on an objective, or even arm the 'brute for ranged fire support and send both cultist units off to whatever part of the battlefield needs cheap, expendable tarpit units.

I've tried Mayhem pack and Helcult. Both are great. Helcult is the best way to get point-effective fearless tarpit / backfield unit for CSM. While murderpack proved unexpectedly strong. Played just 2 games with them - the first one was vs ravenguard sm where murderpack destroyed a few pods and then killed off a bike squad with 2 chapter masters, one of them with shield eternal, and the second game vs a bunch of GK - once again, destroyed a bunch of pods and frightened the enemy off the midboard long enough to win on VP.

Though, murderpack needs support. They're quite slow and will be in trouble vs strong anti-tank like grav cents, broadsides or a bunch of th/ss termies. The best way to support them is psy-powers imo. Summoning a bunch of daemonettes goes a long way. And making brutes invisible or shrowded will save them from powerful AT.

I find that murderpack needs at least 1 flail and a few heavy flamers.

You might want to check the codex again for that combi-bolter at 100 points.

locarno24 wrote:

Maverike_prime wrote:
The Second formation is meant to be a bone thrown to Word Bearer players. It’s called The HelCult. The idea is that some Chaos Forces look at Helbrutes as some form of altar to the gods or avatar of them, so they will fight close to it in order to be seen by the gods. The Helcult represents this by allowing you to deploy a HelBrute with 2 units of Chaos Cultists as a single unit. In short, your HelBrute now has 70 ablative wounds. The Helbrute also gains the Rage special rule in this formation, but when it is in combat any to-hits of 1 are taken on the Cultists. So… okay. You’ve got 70 of ‘em right? A nice extra is that the Cultists and the Helbrute both have fearless so long as the HelBrute is alive. Nice little option for objective camping.

They don't 'mob up' into a single unit - it's two normal, seperate squads, and an independent helbrute. This is good, because you can (for example) leave one of your fearless cultist mobs behind on an objective, or even arm the 'brute for ranged fire support and send both cultist units off to whatever part of the battlefield needs cheap, expendable tarpit units.

Ah you are correct. I did mis-read that. Hmmm... that makes a HelCult a bit more tempting...

Look, I am going to start by saying I love dreadnoughts, soul grinders, deff dredds, killa kans, etc., so I was likely to take the Helbrute regardless. However, I have played a few games with them and they have been quite effective overall. Some specific points:

1. The plasma cannon option for only 10 points is superb. You have a 110 point model that can cause some serious damage if left untouched. While this is anecdotal and best case scenario, in the last game I played, the Helbrute rolled a 1 on the crazed chart and double tapped his plasma cannon annihilating a 10 man space wolf assault squad (I don't recall the name of the unit). The way GETS HOT rolls are now, it isn't much of a risk to hurt yourself.

2. The Helbrute is relatively small and easy to hide, making sure that you always get a cover save. I like to spam them (sometimes using the hell cult formation for expendable fearless objective holders) and ally with demons to bring my Soul Grinders. Armor 12 with a cover save is not impossible to destroy by any means, but if you are spamming them, other vehicles (vindicators in my case), and tough, fast units (bikes, spawns), they force your opponent to usually ignore them thereby allowing them to usually make up their points.

3. I converted two Helbrute's armed with power fists and power scourge, mainly for modeling fun. As you can imagine, they can cause some serious damage if permitted to get into combat, but utterly screwed if you roll a 1 on the Crazed table. The are 50/50 in my experience. Best use for them, in my experience, has been to put them in a Mayhem Pack then deep strike them. Once again, the goal here is to serve as a distraction unit that, if left unchecked, can wreak havoc in your enemy's line. Drop one of them and 2 Helbrutes with multimeltas and watch your enemy sweat as he decides which poses a bigger risk to his [insert expensive vehicle].

4. I think they are competitive enough to make it into a semi-competitive list, perhaps even a tournament depending on their restrictions, if employed in one of two ways. Either a single one in a Helcult for very inexpensive objective holders, I suggest giving them the plasma cannon in this case, or spamming them/using them alongside an armor spam list, preferably in the Mayhem Pack to cause the most, ehh, mayhem...

I love dreadnoughts, and helbrutes are nowhere near as bad as everyone acts like they are. It's really your fault if they get wasted early on, as has been stated, the model is not that big and pretty easy to hide behind some ruins or whatever. If you play with little terrain on the table, that's your meta's problem and is going to affect 40k in it entirety . The formations are just great, honestly, but don't underestimate a single helbrute with a mission. They're really jack of all trades, but you can load em up with specific tasks in mind. Access to plasma cannons is not common in the CSM dex, so they have that going for them. Even the stock loadout at 100 points is a hell of an assault threat. You just have to be careful getting across the table. The worst thing I have ran into about helbrutes is krak grenades. Tactical squads will tie up and eventually kill your brute without support. And if you're playing a low point game, it's totally worth bringing a brute. You'll catch people off guard by having a nasty armored threat that smashes practically anything. AV12 may not be the best in the world, but it's really not bad.

I've always wanted to field helbrutes but the stigma was so negative I never really gave them a shot. I've been working on converting mine into a daemon prince but have another two and could pretty easily pick up a third for mayhem and maybe a fourth for murder fist and use my DP conversion as the Alpha! Anyway, what's the best loadout for these guys if deep striking? Should they be kept stock? Also and pardon my unknowing but they still dont have access to the vehicle armory do they?

Multi melta/powerfist for mayhem pack, heavy flamer if you can spare the points. Some people report having success with a plasma cannon instead of the melta, but I've never tried it that way.

No access to the armoury as far as I'm aware.

One of the sticking concerns about helbrutes that i never hear anyone talk about is that the gun crazed result immobilizes you at the start of your turn. Meaning that if your brute is in close combat, enemies are suddendly puching his rear armour 10.
am i nuts or has no one brought this up before?

Whilst they are outclassed by many powerful units it's not like they're bad. their formations are well worth it I think, especially the formation with two cultist squads and a helbrute. I don't actually think anything in the current codex is outright bad, whilst some units are better than others it's not like any are completely unusable.

 Toastaster wrote:
Whilst they are outclassed by many powerful units it's not like they're bad. their formations are well worth it I think, especially the formation with two cultist squads and a helbrute. I don't actually think anything in the current codex is outright bad, whilst some units are better than others it's not like any are completely unusable.

I'm rather curious if you would stand by that statement when talking about Mutilators, Toastaster.

Never really found these to be very effective. I've run them at 1,500 and 1,850 either using the Helcult formation (x3) or a single Mayhem Pack. Results have always been very "meh." I can think of a lot of things I'd rather run for 200 points than a Brute and 2x10 Cultists. The problem with the Cultists is that they don't get Objective Secured, and they don't count toward your Troops (tax). You still need to take CSM or non-fearless Cultists. Regarding the Mayhem Pack, at 1,500 points (pretty common value), having 1/5 of your army start in DS by necessity is sort of a handicap.

I like to think of the Helcult as a Helbrute tax so you can take 70 fearless cultists that will tar pit a lot of nasty units or act as body guards for Sorcerors because they don't get fearless.