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So... I've done a search on the forums here and not found anything about this. If I'm incorrect feel free to redirect.

I read an article on BoLs today, found here which was a summation of observation and musings on the direction GW has been moving with regard to its fluff (or removal of said bellybutton fluff).

I must admit it's something I had mused over too prior to reading it - the article just helped reaffirm my suspicions since others are thinking along the same lines.

What do you oiks reckon?

I don't think destruction/removal of Slaanesh is ever going to happen. There are probably hundreds of thousands players with Slaanesh miniatures in their armies in both games, and to remove their reason for existing would be a move even GW wouldn't do.

Perhaps he could be weakened or something new to be created so the miniatures still have a use, but completely removed somehow, I don't see that one happening.

You know, I read that same article and given the points made by the author I could certainly see where he was coming from. Since I haven't kept up on that particular fluff, I have no real supporting evidence or lack thereof, but in regards to his argument that Slaanesh might not be the sort of thing in todays social climate that you'd want in a game increasingly aimed towards youth, I actually kind of disagreed.

Is GW thinking that way/going that route? Very possibly. My thought on it however was, should GW "have" to? It makes a certain sales sense, but at what point should a company water down their own fluff for a demographic of potential buyers relying almost completely on their own parents or other family for funding? Given the sorts of video games kids get to play, are those particular demographic of parents even paying attention? If GW waters down Slaanesh fluff, what's to stop them from watering down the rest of the daemons lore? I mean c'mon, they're freakin daemons, there are demographics that GW is already completely open too that are going to have problems with that, but you know what? Grimdark.

So in any case, I was asking myself some of those questions. Whether GW is going that way or not... I haven't a clue. But I will say this: In my opinion, they shouldn't "have" to. Slippery slopes aren't worth sliding down. They should stick to what they've created and work with it. But that's just me.

I think the only reason they're distancing themselves is either that they have no clue how to make Slaanesh less about sex, drugs and rock 'n roll or their designers do, but the upper management is not letting them do it.

Khorne and Nurgle are easy to design - axes and skulls; scars and mountains of fat respectively. Slaanesh and Tzeentch are a bit more difficult. The Dark Prince's theme is one that GW might be trying to get away from, as it's a relic of the 80's and doesn't work very well with their current demographic.

I hope they figure something out for Slaanesh, I'd hate to see him/her/it go.

I think it's more a dearth of ideas to represent it on the table than any conscious effort to distance themselves.

Tzeentch is somewhat plagued with a similar problem.

The God of killing and murder and being flying rodent gak crazy about it and the God of Death and Disease are much easier to represent, Change and Excess are much harder to convey, and add in the need of modern GW to sanitise everything for the kiddies, Slaanesh becomes particularly challenging.

I posited in another thread that they could easily develop concepts based on the Deadly Sins, it was subsequently pointed out to me that 6 being the number of Slaanesh and if you let Khorne have Wrath, there's 6 Sins to work with.

It almost seems too perfect, but the studio seems rather erratic in its focus, and if someone doesn't take an interest, I doubt we'll see anything exciting for some time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninja'd. *shakes fist*

Nope. Most releases GW gives one Chaos God or another center stage, Slaanesh and Tzeentch haven't had any for a while but that doesn't mean they're going to disappear.

If they axe Slaanesh for his fluff then they'd axe Dark Eldar for the same reason. It's not worth alienating that many people to adapt to a modern audience; at most, they'd change the focus to be more on sensory enjoyment or something without specific mention of sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

Phyrekzhogos wrote:
Is GW thinking that way/going that route? Very possibly. My thought on it however was, should GW "have" to? It makes a certain sales sense, but at what point should a company water down their own fluff for a demographic of potential buyers relying almost completely on their own parents or other family for funding? Given the sorts of video games kids get to play, are those particular demographic of parents even paying attention? If GW waters down Slaanesh fluff, what's to stop them from watering down the rest of the daemons lore? I mean c'mon, they're freakin daemons, there are demographics that GW is already completely open too that are going to have problems with that, but you know what? Grimdark.

So in any case, I was asking myself some of those questions. Whether GW is going that way or not... I haven't a clue. But I will say this: In my opinion, they shouldn't "have" to. Slippery slopes aren't worth sliding down. They should stick to what they've created and work with it. But that's just me.

I think you raise a very good point. I'm also in the camp of thought where I believe things are way too sanitised and diluted. I get the impression GW feels it has to make the universe more child friendly with clear baddies who are bad for obvious reasons such as wanting to collect skulls or spread chickenpox. The idea of lust, desire and greed leading to excess is a far more adult theme that I love the idea of as it effects us all. I hope they realise they don't have to... or at the very least produce a proper Chaos codex with all the awesome adult stuff in and stamp it with an 18+ certificate. At least they will have something to put on the top shelf out of reach for a good reason now!

Mumblez wrote:I think the only reason they're distancing themselves is either that they have no clue how to make Slaanesh less about sex, drugs and rock 'n roll or their designers do, but the upper management is not letting them do it.

Khorne and Nurgle are easy to design - axes and skulls; scars and mountains of fat respectively. Slaanesh and Tzeentch are a bit more difficult. The Dark Prince's theme is one that GW might be trying to get away from, as it's a relic of the 80's and doesn't work very well with their current demographic.

I hope they figure something out for Slaanesh, I'd hate to see him/her/it go.

I think you're right there, especially with the designing. Axes and blood is more obvious as dangerous, while the gently pulsating pink-and-purple tentacle is more baffling to the more naive. I hope to see Slaanesh persist in its previous incarnation of filth, the recent Black Library books all manage to keep with the spirit of it.

Azreal13 wrote:I think it's more a dearth of ideas to represent it on the table than any conscious effort to distance themselves.

Tzeentch is somewhat plagued with a similar problem.

The God of killing and murder and being flying rodent gak crazy about it and the God of Death and Disease are much easier to represent, Change and Excess are much harder to convey, and add in the need of modern GW to sanitise everything for the kiddies, Slaanesh becomes particularly challenging.

I posited in another thread that they could easily develop concepts based on the Deadly Sins, it was subsequently pointed out to me that 6 being the number of Slaanesh and if you let Khorne have Wrath, there's 6 Sins to work with.

It almost seems too perfect, but the studio seems rather erratic in its focus, and if someone doesn't take an interest, I doubt we'll see anything exciting for some time.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ninja'd. *shakes fist*

The sins sounds good but I reckon GW will end up in a libel case with the Church over IP (GW claiming copy-right of course).

lustigjh wrote:If they axe Slaanesh for his fluff then they'd axe Dark Eldar for the same reason. It's not worth alienating that many people to adapt to a modern audience; at most, they'd change the focus to be more on sensory enjoyment or something without specific mention of sex, drugs, and rock and roll.

I think with that, GW has backed themselves into a corner. Without Slaanesh, the Dark Eldar don't have a reason for existence (or the normal Eldar in their current format for that same reason). GW is unable to axe Slaanesh. This said, they've opted for ignoring the issue and hoping it will go away (or at least, that's my view)

As has already been said above, generic skulls and blood demons (aka Khorne) and space zombies (Nurgle) are easily made and identifiable as they play off of well known ideas in horror. Khorne themed releases also tend to have emphasis on muscles and brawn, which appeals to traditional stereotypical masculine ideas and thus play into young male wish fulfillment fantasies.

By contrast, the other two gods are harder. Slaanesh is hermaphroditic, so already might be derided for some as being effeminate, and there is the need to tone down any sexual related themes to that acceptable for society and particularly parents paying for their children. Tzeentch is about eldritch magic and sanity blasting alien forms and it is hard to do that without looking just weird or stupid. The current cartoonish Pink Horrors for example I think are a step in the wrong direction from the last attempt which was a non-humanoid blob of writhing limbs and mouths and eyes. Tzeentch is also about mastery of magic and GW thematically has traditionally been focused on brawn rather than magic/intellect. One only has to read all its stories of the devious magic user getting come-uppance at the hand of the muscle-bound warrior that smashes his way through all attempts at wily deception. There are far fewer stories where the reverse happens.

Do I think GW will get rid of Slaanesh? No, I don't think they will, but they may certainly spend disproportionate amounts of time on Khorne and Nurgle related content.

Honestly think gw is just trying to stay away from anything female outside of elves.

Really sad too

Tzeentch however is just a whole lot of wat.

 Desubot wrote:
Honestly think gw is just trying to stay away from anything female outside of elves.

Helynna Valeria still lives on in my list, even if I did have to write down her rules on some lined paper

Slaanesh is an awful more than "ooh sex and BDSM so edgy". There is a lot of potential to do well with Slaanesh, which is rarely ever realised.

People are far too focused on Slaanesh as a sex god. Regardless of whether or not GW are, Slaanesh's lack of presence is most likely what other people are saying (being harder to design, like Tzeentch), with the added note that Khorne and Nurgle are most likely the design team's favourites.

I really want to see the Satanic "master of temptation" angle played up with Slaanesh, rather than sticking nipple rings on everything and calling it "excess".