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So no one in my community plays HH and to be honest, apart from flipping through the HH books, I dont know much about the game itself. My main question is what's the point of it? Now, im not looking for the inevitable iteration of "for GW to make more money". I want to know why its so popular and why people are playing. How different is it from 40k? From my perspective it seems the same with different models and gear. Plus, since its pretty much all marines it gives me the impression of being boring. Again, I know a lot of people feel differently which is why Im asking the questions. Overall, I just want to know, what, as a 40k player, would make someone (me, you, whomever) want to start HH. THe price is daunting even if the new plastic rumors are to be believed so Im really curious to get some more info before dropping any cash. Thanks

A few reasons:

1. Fluff. There is a great emphasis on it in the HH books.
2. Balance. In 30k games, there is generally better balance between the armies.
3. Models. The models are amazing.

Must admit I'm in the same boat as you OP

I think Curran12 has hit the nail on the head though as it makes sense. My only niggle is that the HH is on a dramatic scale - greater than that of 40K, yet the prices are so prohibitive that it's difficult to reproduce

 Wulfmar wrote:
My only niggle

Well that's a new one

 curran12 wrote:
A few reasons:

1. Fluff. There is a great emphasis on it in the HH books.
2. Balance. In 30k games, there is generally better balance between the armies.
3. Models. The models are amazing.

1. It is the same fluff that has been in 40K from the beginning, though it is fleshing it out a bit more.

2. Well...every army is marines, so there is that.

3. If you like the craptacular crap that is marine models, then sure the models are great.....but I think marine models are.........crap.



Not seeing the draw, personally.

It sounds a bit cheesy, but a lot of the Horus Heresy stuff is "Forging a narrative".

You have to put together a force you love, and can apply it to an incredibly detailed historical setting.

I'm still not sure why it feels better than 40k. There's not a huge amount of difference. I guess the higher cost means you get more invested in the units you have, whereas in 40k you can chop and change a lot more trying to be competitive.

30k isn't meant to be competitive, its aimed more at hobbyists.

/ramble

You can form "marine only" groups with 40k and use the fluff of 'this group is set during the horus heresy.
So that takes the fluff aspect out as being the draw.

However, the army builds and unit composition and all seems to be set to a grander scale. larger units with different weapon "loadouts" so that could be part of it.
You can tweak the 40k rules and such for the above marine only groups but those would have to be "house ruled" and might not be the same between different groups which would affect uniformity of being able to go from group to group and expecting continuity. So I find this understandable.

Models....I actually like marine models and the HH era styles as well. But you can buy and use those models in 40k to give your army a cool retro look without having to actually play IN the HH. So I dont see the models having to be a draw since you dont need to play it to use them.

So overall, YES. I do see it as a money making grab exploiting the popularity of the HH novels.

Captyn_Bob wrote:


30k isn't meant to be competitive, its aimed more at hobbyists.

/ramble

Um? So is 40K. Arguably, it's the main reason 40K gets so much flak these days.

I like the HH setting because it gives me rules for the Legions I like most, Legions that haven't had their own rules since 3e of 40k.

I like the models for the Legions, Army and Mechanicum, I like learning more about the Heresy and the dynamics of the Legions, Imperial Army and Mechanicum on topics and battles not covered in the HH series. It's also more consistent with its fluff than the HH series.

 megatrons2nd wrote:

 curran12 wrote:
A few reasons:

1. Fluff. There is a great emphasis on it in the HH books.
2. Balance. In 30k games, there is generally better balance between the armies.
3. Models. The models are amazing.

1. It is the same fluff that has been in 40K from the beginning, though it is fleshing it out a bit more.

2. Well...every army is marines, so there is that.

3. If you like the craptacular crap that is marine models, then sure the models are great.....but I think marine models are.........crap.



Not seeing the draw, personally.

1. It is more in depth and "gritty" than the current 40k Timeline (imho). Some of this is a result of the writing being by FW instead of the core 40k staff. I think Alan Bligh, John French and Andy Hoare "get" the setting more than many of the people there. This appeals probably to people who... in a way like historical games. I refer to it as "Future History". You are recreating some historical battles though admittedly they are fictional... and in the future.

2. Except for Mechanicum, Solar Auxilia, Knight Questoris list.... and more coming.. but yeah thinking its JUST Marines is a mistake. (Not to mention Demons included with Word Bearers).

3. That's pretty subjective and the majority of people here would probably disagree with you. Not that I have taken a poll or anything. So I'll cast my vote in the "Models are awesome" category to offset your "They suck" vote.

 Dramagod2 wrote:
So no one in my community plays HH and to be honest, apart from flipping through the HH books, I dont know much about the game itself. My main question is what's the point of it?

curran12 answered it pretty well, but I'll expand on that if you'd like.

1. Fluff. Since the HH books from the Black Library came out, I've read every one, and some multiple times. I'm really taken in with the story, the differences between how the legions operate, the fall of the various legions, and so on. Getting to play 30k by pitting my HH Imperial Fists army against my buddy's HH Iron Warriors army is attractive to me. While I'm obviously not going to be able to recreate the Siege of Terra, I can use the missions, army list, and rules in the Forge World HH books to set up mini campaigns built around the HH storyline.
2. Models. The MKIII and other marks of armor are amazing. Pricey? Sure, but I'm older than most here, and have a good job. I am taking my time with this Forge World army, and building what I want and paint it at my own pace (like anything else, I suppose). Also, the army I build for a 30k game can fairly easily be ported into a 40k game without too many changes to the list.
3. Play style. I haven't seen a flying circus list, 8 Wave serpent list, or 3x riptide list yet! Primarchs/Super heavies are limited to 2000 point games or higher, and no more than 25% of your forces. Knights? I'm not worried about them and look forward to playing them, actually. Marines versus Marines or Marines vs. Admech is appealing to me.
4. The FW books. I really like the stories from these books. There are extra background story lines detailing how many of the Legions behaved during the Unification Wars, before they found their Primarchs, and then afterwards. I find these stories fascinating and think that Alan Blighe and his team are doing it right.

So, that's my opinion on the HH stuff from Forge World. If none of that is interesting to you, that's cool. Keep playing what you like and enjoy your games, man.

I for one can't wait to play Thousand Sons back when it was a Legion.

Hm... in fact I want to wait, because I can't afford it now. I hope Prospero book will take a loong time to be published

 Vector Strike wrote:
I for one can't wait to play Thousand Sons back when it was a Legion.

Hm... in fact I want to wait, because I can't afford it now. I hope Prospero book will take a loong time to be published

If ForgeWorld produced marines for the Thousand Sons I would be extremely tempted to invest in them - assuming they were designed to be clearly different (in such a way as the Sons of Horus have the spiked armour with different helmet shape). A small force that could also be used for 40K would be the hook that got me into 30K.

 Great White wrote:

 Wulfmar wrote:
My only niggle

Well that's a new one

What was the point of this post other than to be obnoxious?

I was building adeptus mechanicus lists from SM/IG before HH, so i love the HH because now i have a proper army list! with a book and everything!

The biggest draw i think is the 'feel' of the setting - SM don't feel so constricted to predetermined actions (ATSKNF made SM CC quite predictable with no sweeping advance and automatic regrouping) they run away, they may keep running off the board! there are loads of them at this point so it's okay to be a space marine and run away like a gaurdsman..

The weaponry and technology available gives 40k a definite feel of 10000 years of decline where the fancy weaponry could no longer be maintained. (apart from grav-weapons which seem to have gotten better during the slow decline)
For example; a warhound titan has an extra void shield and nightvision and the malcador tanks are a 'fast' super-heavy tank!

Fielding a unit of 20 marines and firing a full salvo of bolters twice in one shooting phase can make you love the HH. 6 man squads of Thallax can also do this.

You get a definite 'toybox' feel when you're selecting which weapons to take - how badly did you want to have a squad of nothing but special weapons in 40k? you can in 30k! 10 man dev squad with all lascannons? expensive in points but go for it! because you can in 30k!

The way things get expensive in points and money is my only reservation about the HH but the campains are very good.
They don't seem to be including 'useless' units like the sentinel power-lifter, the pack knarlock (kroot pack animal) and trojan recovery vehicle like they have done with 40k campains, probably fluff reasons i imagine.

People play 30k be because Forgeworld is a better game designer then GW. They put more effort into the fluff, make more balanced missions and have superior army balance both externally and internally.

And the armies aren't all marines. Both the Mechanicum and the Solar Auxillia are as unique and different in play-style from the marine armies as any xenos faction.

As others have said:

- Lore. I find Heresy lore more engaging and with less horrible characters (like Kaldor Draigo).

-Rules quality. A lot of FW rules seem to have also been considered from the 'how does this rule affect the game' angle and not only 'how does this rule affect model sales' one. I can't speak for Legiones Astartes, but I've got a friend playing Mechanicum. On reading the book I've had way less 'this unit is crap/auto-include' moments than for the average 40k codex, so internal balance is pretty good also.

-Mostly marines doesn't bother me much, as my local meta is already mostly marines in 40k (there's maybe 25% of players who don't have marines as their main army).

Why HH when you could be playing WHFB? I'm sorry I'll go now...

Cause Horus Heresy is a canonic setting by itself.

I'd not be so concerned about ballance, however. Try winning an iron hand or imperial fists gunline with a world eaters footslogging mellee horde using HH missions.

 Dramagod2 wrote:
So no one in my community plays HH and to be honest, apart from flipping through the HH books, I dont know much about the game itself. My main question is what's the point of it? Now, im not looking for the inevitable iteration of "for GW to make more money". I want to know why its so popular and why people are playing. How different is it from 40k? From my perspective it seems the same with different models and gear. Plus, since its pretty much all marines it gives me the impression of being boring. Again, I know a lot of people feel differently which is why Im asking the questions. Overall, I just want to know, what, as a 40k player, would make someone (me, you, whomever) want to start HH. THe price is daunting even if the new plastic rumors are to be believed so Im really curious to get some more info before dropping any cash. Thanks

First, you're misinterpreting 30k as a different game. Think of a 30k Army as its own codex.
You could play 30k as intended which is, certain points limits, limitations on bringing lords of wars and what not. But 30k at its core is still played with 40k rules.

30k is not necessarily over powered either. If you play 40k Xenos you won't have a hard time with a 30k Army. I know, some FW models like Achilles and Sicarans seem OP but they're not that bad.

If you like the asthetic aspects of a 30k SM army. And you wanna play against other SM 30k armies and play a balanced game. Where each side is very equally matched and you like playing 30k historical narrative games.

HH might be for you.

30k is not necessarily over powered either. If you play 40k Xenos you won't have a hard time with a 30k Army. I know, some FW models like Achilles and Sicarans seem OP but they're not that bad.

and what if you play an imperial army ? Lets say IG.

Makumba wrote:

30k is not necessarily over powered either. If you play 40k Xenos you won't have a hard time with a 30k Army. I know, some FW models like Achilles and Sicarans seem OP but they're not that bad.

and what if you play an imperial army ? Lets say IG.

Depends on your IG list. As a 40k SM player, I always struggle against a mech heavy IG Army.

I think IG would do pretty good against 30k Army's.

Captyn_Bob wrote:
It sounds a bit cheesy, but a lot of the Horus Heresy stuff is "Forging a narrative".

You have to put together a force you love, and can apply it to an incredibly detailed historical setting.

I'm still not sure why it feels better than 40k. There's not a huge amount of difference. I guess the higher cost means you get more invested in the units you have, whereas in 40k you can chop and change a lot more trying to be competitive.

30k isn't meant to be competitive, its aimed more at hobbyists.

/ramble

I agree that the FW Horus Heresy books so far focus heavily on scenarios and campaign play. But I also feel the HH, as a setting, has the right foundations to spawn a balanced competitive game. Let's see how GW handles it.

 Agent_Tremolo wrote:

...a balanced competitive game. Let's see how GW handles it.

Like it handled Mordheim and Necromundula.

The biggest draw has to be the rules quality.

The Legion army list is hands down the best army list in the entirety of the Warhammer universe. Not because of power mind you, but of flexibility and internal balance. Almost every unit has a clear niche and purpose in the general list, and the Legion variants enhance their trademark units. Coupled that with "Rites of War," where you can chance how your entire army fights and deploys through having a sufficiently senior commander on the field. Drop pod lists require *everything* drop pod, mech is the same; the game's full of hard choices reflective of solid design.

The core books also provide variant game modes, from small-scale pseudo-kill team reminiscent of Necromunda with limited ammo and supplies, small/medium scale raid/defense games and the larger more conventional battles, alongside excellent campaign rules. Yeah, it's mostly marine, but there is clear diversity between them, and it is welcome diversity rather than giant wolf cavalry. The Solar Auxilia and Mechanicus provide a pretty clear departure for something different, and Militia are coming in the next book with promises of the Adeptus Custodes and the Sisters of Silence as well.

I do bemoan the lack of xenos, and would like to see FW craft some lists for Eldar and Orks designed to work within their rules framework (eldar would horribly, horribly murder a Legion list; the rules aren't designed around that much AP1/2/3, psykers and T8 jump monstrous creatures....), but they've alluded to that should they reach the Scouring, that's when they'll bring in the Xenos. They're very clearly not doing "Warhammer 30k," (which is a shame IMO), but the Horus Heresy in which xenos play and extremely small role on the battlefield, but the Scouring is a different beast.

However, if they're bound by the glacial HH novels, that won't be for another 40 years.

Man, at their current pace the Scouring just seems so damn far away.

I'm 23 now and just starting college. I'm pretty confident that I'll have a 4-year degree and a family by the time they reach the end of the Horus Heresy.

HH is expensive, the models however are amazing, there high quality, and the rules and books are said to balanced and well written.

Just need to have deep pockets if you want a big force with the best toys and primarchs etc

Im a little confused. Does HH use the same rule set as 40k or a different one? For example, is the current 7th ed. rulebook the official rulebook for HH?

 Dramagod2 wrote:
Im a little confused. Does HH use the same rule set as 40k or a different one? For example, is the current 7th ed. rulebook the official rulebook for HH?

It's the same core rules, but different rules for building the army, and totally different army lists.

 Dramagod2 wrote:
Im a little confused. Does HH use the same rule set as 40k or a different one? For example, is the current 7th ed. rulebook the official rulebook for HH?

Yes. Same rules.

 ImAGeek wrote:

 Dramagod2 wrote:
Im a little confused. Does HH use the same rule set as 40k or a different one? For example, is the current 7th ed. rulebook the official rulebook for HH?

It's the same core rules, but different rules for building the army, and totally different army lists.

What this man said.

You still play by the 7th edition rulebook; however, you use the army lists in the FW HH books instead of the Space Marine codex. I hope that helps.