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How do you use it horrifically?

What are the awful combinations and board dominations that can make this a gross problem for any one to deal with?

Priest, xeno inquisitor with nades, probably Azrael if you feel fancy. Get a bunch of power axes, krak nades and melta bombs and the guyz will murderise stuff in mellee. Their weakness is barrage and invisible tarpit, however. On the other hand, they're a tarpit themselves - but a bit more expensive one if you stick in Azrael for 4++. Without Azrael, they're less durable but cheap enough to still be useful.

Infiltrate the 50 man blob with priest, power axes, and Lias Issodon. He gives them shrouded and stealth on the first turn of the game. Set up 18 inches from the enemy and just hustle in there turn one. (Since he can give infiltrate to 3 units, you could actually bring along 100 more friends... )

I know others disagree, and I won't say they're wrong, but personally I think 50-man blobs are a classic case of 'overdoing it' for minimal return. 40 is pushing it, 30 is where I find the sweet spot.

There is certainly the theory that the more men you take, the better your return-on-investment for any buff you choose to apply, and mathematically that's sound, but once you factor in the fact that you are never going to get 50 men in range of anything without distance, LoS, terrain or cover becoming an issue that reduces that benefit.

50 is too many for effectively manouvering, more than you'll ever bring to bear, and more then you'll need to in most situations. 2 of 30 costs slightly more, but will do a heck of a lot more, I think.

Psssssssh - and here's the voice of reason raining on the parade. It's Warhammer 40,000 dammit! With four zeros!

But in all seriousness though - you're absolutely correct. I think I'd hold out in the case of conscripts - as you really do need weight of numbers to carry the day. But for a regular infantry squad I'm not sure it's worth the 350+ points that we're talking about sinking into the one unit.

Just once though I want to try and multi-assault the entire enemy army.

Meh i stick my 50man blobs into conscripts rather than infantry squads

Thats where my lascannons go

Good things for them are mass priests. multiple psykers with power mauls or whatever rolling diviniation and or biomancy
Inquisitor is always a good idea.

The shunting psysic power is always funny to get all your conscripts into FRFSRF double tap range.

Hah, if you think it would be a blast then certainly don't let my post put you off using them! I agree it might be ridiculous in a very fun kind of way (although you'd have to be something of a tactical genius or playing on an empty table to get them in contact without logjamming! )

I did face something similar once, a 50-man Conscript blob back when Chenkov allowed Conscripts to respawn. I don't think any given squad lasted more than 3 turns, but the new wave was most certainly sent in... more than once...

I think there should be a formation that could combine...combined squads. It'd be called 'umie Tide. Now that'd be almost enough bodies. 50 is just close to reasonable ammount.

You can also take cheap DA Librarian with PFG into you guard blob. For 4++ goodness. It will also make them fearless and give them Prefered Enemy: CSM.

 Reinokarite wrote:
You can also take cheap DA Librarian with PFG into you guard blob. For 4++ goodness. It will also make them fearless and give them Prefered Enemy: CSM.

Only for the models within 3 inches of the Libby in question.

Using Azrael was already mentioned but there's at least one more way to make this even more interesting: with DA warlord trait number 6 your warlord's squad gets FNP when close enough to an objective.

I'm thinking blood angels can bring the best special rules into the blob... They have IC FNP, right? And the priest gives fearless, right?

Issodon

Priest.

Inquisitor with rad granades.

50 guardsmen, 5 melta bombs, 5 power axes, 20 krak 'nades.



Issodon infiltrates everyone with warlord trait. Inquisitor gives opponents -1t. Priest allows rerolls to hit and likely rerolls to wound. Issodon also grants scout and 4+ cover save T1, 5+ cover after T1, also granting ATSKNF in case priest kops it. Lots of power axes and mbs for all round damage.
Another variation is to include salamander apotecary shen for a 4+ fnp on the unit instead of priest or inquisitor.

Hm... Which is better for the Blob, Invisibility (Loth/Tiggy), Endurance (Loth/Tiggy) or 4++ Invulnerable and Furious Charge (Azrael). Loth and Tiggy also bring ATSKNF into the blob, which weirdly Azrael doesnt. I like that Azrael's save is gauranteed - but invis is getting comped at less events in the UK and not taking any blast weapons on the blob seems amazing. Against Demons or GK you are unlikely to get that invisibility off though, right?

I ally with go for my blobs. 3 priests/primaries psykers, level 3 librarian, draigo and stern. Roll four thge 4++, use stern to make 3++ and roll for 4+ fnp with the primaries psykers. Force every turn. Use the priests for thge warhym that lists you reroll failed saves.

That's interesting. Cheers.

About the blob with power axes and priests. There, as I see the power axes brings the punch, the others are cannon fodders for these. For 50 blob you have 5 power axes, it costs 325 + priest + inquisitor, so it can add upt to 400+ points easily. For this you'll have 2x5 S4 AP2 hits at I1, while enemy has -1T (from rad grenades), with some chance (LD7 leadership test is pretty easy to fail) to re-roll wounds or armor. Not sure if it's that impressive. Also your sergeants will only hit if they are close to the massacre (this will happen soon though), but they'll drop really easily, and 4+ look out sir is not that big protection neither.

So what am I missing?

Usually the blobs are made of conscripts with a priest thrown in to give durability.
Not as great as an offensive formation, usually used for bubble-wrap for the tanks.
The problem is a 50 man blob is an easy to hit target with little durability, hence the need to infiltrate or shunt-in since they need to "hide" in melee the sooner the better.
I am in the same camp of doing this is too little return on points: it is not their ideal role.
Plus you want some kind of command squad near them to issue orders which is hard when infiltrated in.

Keep the 50 man cheap as possible. 5LC 5 PG and a priest or a psyker - maybe throw tiggy in there as it's a safe place to put him and he can really make that unit hurt. 150 rending lasguns? All great ideas - whilst tossing invis on wyverns behind you? Sounds like a reasonable strategy.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Keep the 50 man cheap as possible. 5LC 5 PG and a priest or a psyker - maybe throw tiggy in there as it's a safe place to put him and he can really make that unit hurt. 150 rending lasguns? All great ideas - whilst tossing invis on wyverns behind you? Sounds like a reasonable strategy.

What's cheap in adding LC and PG (the most expensive weapons in their category except for silly AA missile upgrade) to a melee blob? Not to mention Tiggy

I've found coteaz to be a decent buy for blobs. He's cheaper than most buffing characters at just 100pts, and adds plenty of benefits:

2+ save to tank some wounds (I've had him hold up a knight for a few turns recently)
S6 daemonhammer with force if you need to down some MCs in CC
LD 10 Stubborn (which also helps with orders)
Mastery level 2 for divination or telepathy nastiness
A decent interceptor rule that prevents any enemy unit landing within 12" of him unless they want to take 50 odd lasguns shots
Re-rolling steal the initiative (which is pretty huge considering how much emphasis there is on striking first in this game)

Also, include a priest in with the unit for a potential re-rollable 2+ save to make people very annoyed at you.

I'd never take a ML2 primaris psyker if he's an option. He just adds so much more!

 DoomMouse wrote:
I've found coteaz to be a decent buy for blobs. He's cheaper than most buffing characters at just 100pts, and adds plenty of benefits:

2+ save to tank some wounds (I've had him hold up a knight for a few turns recently)
S6 daemonhammer with force if you need to down some MCs in CC
LD 10 Stubborn (which also helps with orders)
Mastery level 2 for divination or telepathy nastiness
A decent interceptor rule that prevents any enemy unit landing within 12" of him unless they want to take 50 odd lasguns shots
Re-rolling steal the initiative (which is pretty huge considering how much emphasis there is on striking first in this game)

Also, include a priest in with the unit for a potential re-rollable 2+ save to make people very annoyed at you.

I'd never take a ML2 primaris psyker if he's an option. He just adds so much more!

How would he hold up a knight? (unless you are not talking about the imperial or dread version)
The rest is very nice buffs.

Zsolt wrote:
About the blob with power axes and priests. There, as I see the power axes brings the punch, the others are cannon fodders for these. For 50 blob you have 5 power axes, it costs 325 + priest + inquisitor, so it can add upt to 400+ points easily. For this you'll have 2x5 S4 AP2 hits at I1, while enemy has -1T (from rad grenades), with some chance (LD7 leadership test is pretty easy to fail) to re-roll wounds or armor. Not sure if it's that impressive. Also your sergeants will only hit if they are close to the massacre (this will happen soon though), but they'll drop really easily, and 4+ look out sir is not that big protection neither.

So what am I missing?

You are missing the primaris psykers with force weapons, all level 2, rolling on biomancy for endurance, then telepathy for invis. You are missing the three ic's from grey knights all with force weapons. One lib rolling on div for the 4++ and the other securing telepathy if the primaris psykers didn't get it, or rolling sanctuary to make that 4++ a 3++ if they did. Your force axes are now str six, reg guardsman are str 5. With three priests, you have more than an 80% chance of getting reroll failed saves every combat. You can spread the group out over a couple feet without worrying too much about coherency, and get off some pretty successful multi charges.

Usually when a knight charges my blobs I only have one charcter in them so if it's just a priest or commissar they can stomp it flat and sweep the unit.

SD attacks can be taken on the regular guardsmen, and when the knight stomps Coteaz is likely to survive it unless the knight player rolls a 6. Doesn't last forever, but was good for a few turns for me.

Primo psykers cant get telepathy.

greytalon666 wrote:

Zsolt wrote:
About the blob with power axes and priests. There, as I see the power axes brings the punch, the others are cannon fodders for these. For 50 blob you have 5 power axes, it costs 325 + priest + inquisitor, so it can add upt to 400+ points easily. For this you'll have 2x5 S4 AP2 hits at I1, while enemy has -1T (from rad grenades), with some chance (LD7 leadership test is pretty easy to fail) to re-roll wounds or armor. Not sure if it's that impressive. Also your sergeants will only hit if they are close to the massacre (this will happen soon though), but they'll drop really easily, and 4+ look out sir is not that big protection neither.

So what am I missing?

You are missing the primaris psykers with force weapons, all level 2, rolling on biomancy for endurance, then telepathy for invis. You are missing the three ic's from grey knights all with force weapons. One lib rolling on div for the 4++ and the other securing telepathy if the primaris psykers didn't get it, or rolling sanctuary to make that 4++ a 3++ if they did. Your force axes are now str six, reg guardsman are str 5. With three priests, you have more than an 80% chance of getting reroll failed saves every combat. You can spread the group out over a couple feet without worrying too much about coherency, and get off some pretty successful multi charges.

Not to mention that Primaris psyker can't roll on telepathy, the chance of getting 2 spells you want to get with a level2 psyker from different tables is really slim. Like 2.7%. You are rolling for powers, not selecting them. How are you making your guardsmen S5?

Santic hammerhands effect whole units.

It's been a while since I played blob, and, while effetive, I didn't like it. You can get 3 primaris psykers, which gives you 3 1/3 chances to get a power. The GK libby has a 1/2 chance to get the power you want. Chances are, you'll get at least two of the three powers you want. Whether you want to concentrate on 3++4+++ or 3++/Invis, your choice.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Either way, it's one hell of a tarpit unit with BITE.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
As above, Hammerhand affects the whole unit, ala 5str Guardsmen.

Zsolt wrote:
About the blob with power axes and priests. There, as I see the power axes brings the punch, the others are cannon fodders for these. For 50 blob you have 5 power axes, it costs 325 + priest + inquisitor, so it can add upt to 400+ points easily. For this you'll have 2x5 S4 AP2 hits at I1, while enemy has -1T (from rad grenades), with some chance (LD7 leadership test is pretty easy to fail) to re-roll wounds or armor. Not sure if it's that impressive. Also your sergeants will only hit if they are close to the massacre (this will happen soon though), but they'll drop really easily, and 4+ look out sir is not that big protection neither.

So what am I missing?

Each sarge has 2 base and +1 for 2 ccw attacks. They have hatred with priest. Rad nades make enemy -1 T. And psychostroke nades are random but amazing from time to time. And krak nades for regular dudes.

I've had such blob wrecking a squad of slaanesh bikers with fnp icon in mellee in one round; they've killed Be'Lakor on his charge before striking. I've had them obliterating 2 Tyranid MC and a grounded Flyrant across the game.

But i've also had them kited and indeps barraged out. So, they do have weaknesses. But don't underestimate their choppiness. They're dead killy.

ATSKNF is given to the whole unit if a single model has it. would it worth it to use that instead of priest's fearless in a blob? They can fallback from combat, won1t get swiped, shoot a turn with assault weapons, charge back, similar stuff.

they won't get pinned with fearless and won't run away. It might be significant against harlequins with their ld debuffs.