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At this point were the Librarians using the blue armor of their codex era counterparts, or were they just using their regular legion colors with the horned skull? Or some variation thereof. I know it probably varied per legion (and who is writing what at the time) just trying to get a general guideline.

They were banned at the time of the Heresy, and were fully reintegrated back to regular battle brother status.

Right. What I'm asking is members of the Librariaum pre Council of Nikaea, what would they look like, because they were a thing until that point when the big E put the kibosh on it. So I guess technically I'm asking about Crusade/Pre-Heresy era Librarians...

I know that post-Council of Nikaea Librarians were kept around secretly so they would have to have been set up with non-Librarium gear as a disguise.

Right, they got rolled back into the line companies and told "don't do brain magics". At that point they'd look like just any other Legionnaire. I'm trying to grok whether the blue armor is a Codex thing, or if it had it's origins before that, pre Council of Nikaea. Or if it's a case of "never been defined, paint em how you want..."

He's specifically asking for pre-Nikaea librarians. In which case, the only evidence we have is that there was no standard across legions. Some legions may not have had a standard at all, though off the top of my head a number of legions didn't have librarians anyway (Emperor's Children, Iron Hands, Death Guard, Word Bearers, and possibly Sons of Horus and Iron Warriors).

Death guard had secret librarians, word bearers had lots of psykers, emps children had them too, so did iron hands and sons of horus, just because they haven't featured yet doesn't mean they didn't exist, also emps children were one of the legions that liked the idea

 Formosa wrote:
Death guard had secret librarians, word bearers had lots of psykers, emps children had them too, so did iron hands and sons of horus, just because they haven't featured yet doesn't mean they didn't exist, also emps children were one of the legions that liked the idea

What? Emperor's Children had no Librarians. They aaw the genetic mutation as an flaw they wouldn't tolerate. The Thousand Sons you might mean, who had loads of them.

Essentially we don't know.

The thousand sons didn't wear blue. Nor did the White scars. (and that's two of the three founding chapters of the librarius right there).

We don't know if blood angel librarians wore blue, but its entirely possible. Same for the other legions, before Nikea.


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Thinking about it the Dark Angel librarian doesn't wear blue either.


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I think the blue colour is part of the codex astartes- and therefore post heresy.

 Formosa wrote:
Death guard had secret librarians, word bearers had lots of psykers, emps children had them too, so did iron hands and sons of horus, just because they haven't featured yet doesn't mean they didn't exist, also emps children were one of the legions that liked the idea

Having hidden psykers is not the same thing as having librarians. Both Mortarion and Ferrus Manus were violently opposed to the idea and neither of them allowed a librarium established in their legions. Sons of Horus is more likely to have had one, but like you said, there's no evidence to them.

 Deadshot wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Death guard had secret librarians, word bearers had lots of psykers, emps children had them too, so did iron hands and sons of horus, just because they haven't featured yet doesn't mean they didn't exist, also emps children were one of the legions that liked the idea

What? Emperor's Children had no Librarians. They aaw the genetic mutation as an flaw they wouldn't tolerate. The Thousand Sons you might mean, who had loads of them.

Not true.

Fulgrim - Primarch of the Emperor's Children Legion. He stood firmly behind his brother Magnus in support of the continued use of psychic abilities and the established Legion Libraria, despite the fact that his own Legion made little or no use of psykers.

His legion didn't have them, but Fulgrim supported Magnus' Librarian initiative.

I'm pretty sure the blue thing is post-heresy Codex regulations. However, it's likely that the idea had its root someone, so id expect one legion to have originated it - and it's probably not the Ultramarines!!

 ArbitorIan wrote:
I'm pretty sure the blue thing is post-heresy Codex regulations. However, it's likely that the idea had its root someone, so id expect one legion to have originated it - and it's probably not the Ultramarines!!

LOL that would be awesome.

Ultramarine Librarian: You see, our Librarium paint their armor blue to mark them out as psykers!
Dark Angel: Er... don't all your Legionaries already wear blue?
Ultramarine Librarian: Yes, Exactly!
Dark Angel: You know this is why noone likes you, right?

 kronk wrote:

 Deadshot wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
Death guard had secret librarians, word bearers had lots of psykers, emps children had them too, so did iron hands and sons of horus, just because they haven't featured yet doesn't mean they didn't exist, also emps children were one of the legions that liked the idea

What? Emperor's Children had no Librarians. They aaw the genetic mutation as an flaw they wouldn't tolerate. The Thousand Sons you might mean, who had loads of them.

Not true.

Fulgrim - Primarch of the Emperor's Children Legion. He stood firmly behind his brother Magnus in support of the continued use of psychic abilities and the established Legion Libraria, despite the fact that his own Legion made little or no use of psykers.

His legion didn't have them, but Fulgrim supported Magnus' Librarian initiative.

True. I trust Lexicanum 1000% more than that site.


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Fulgrim wasn't supporting Librarians. He was making a political backing for a brother he favoured, who he liked purely because Magnus enjoyed culture, literature and learning.

Read most of the Horus heresy, And it seems that most of them were dressed like normal marines except the thousand sons and space wolves (they were shamans not psyker, yeah right hypocrites!).
Even Pre-heresy i think.

I also think that Librarians = blue was a post-heresy thing, mostly because pre-heresy the legions were independent and pretty much did their own thing organizationaly. They were organized by chapters, brotherhoods, fellowships, etc etc so it would be strange that across such disparate org schemes and naming conventions suddenly all librarians were painted blue.

 rabidaskal wrote:
it would be strange that across such disparate org schemes and naming conventions suddenly all librarians were painted blue.

You're logic seems a bit backwards there: Post-Heresy the Space Wolves (who insist their Librarians aren't Librarians) are the only first founding chapter to not use blue on their librarians. Even the Blood Angels and Salamander who in general completely eschew Codex markings use blue librarians. It would make more sense for the colour to have always been associated with the Librarian Corps, than to have them all suddenly adopt the same colour at the same time as refusing to adopt the other Codex markings.