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As the title says, how much authority/power does the Mechanicus hold? Say for example the AdMech and a Chapter of Space Marines came to blows over something, which side would be considered in the right? (Assuming that there is no 'trial', but rather an assumption is made by the relevant authorities)

And finally, where would they place amongst the other organisations of the Imperium in terms of authority? (i.e. more so than Imperial Guard, but less so than Space Marines)

Thanks!

Anybody who crosses the Adeptus Mechanicus is in for a bad time. The Blood Angels are still on the bad side of the Mechanicus, after 10 millennia, for not sharing the STC for the Baal Class Predator. The Adeptus Mechanicus are one of the most powerful institutions in the entire Imperium, way above the Chapters as they are now, maybe not so with the Legions of old, but a Chapter is most definitely wise to not cross the Priesthood of Mars.

 TheFatElf wrote:
As the title says, how much authority/power does the Mechanicus hold? Say for example the AdMech and a Chapter of Space Marines came to blows over something, which side would be considered in the right? (Assuming that there is no 'trial', but rather an assumption is made by the relevant authorities)

And finally, where would they place amongst the other organisations of the Imperium in terms of authority? (i.e. more so than Imperial Guard, but less so than Space Marines)

Thanks!

Its 40k - it depends..............

The Adeptus Mechanicus is as fractured and factional as any other part of the Imperium - whilst they all technically pay homage to Mars and thence to the Emperor its not that simple - remote and or influential Forgeworlds and their fiefdoms can pay little attention to either for the most part.

Getting someone trying to rule over a dispute between say a Powerful Forgeworld and an Astartes Chapter is not going to be easy - unless they have an interest in helping/ hurting either. You might get an Inquisitor fro these reasons but many will stay away from that mess.

Both sides could appeal to their own allies and eventually to the High Lords and eventually after a few decades it might come to their attention and they might rule on it - or not. Be better to send some investigators and in tried and tested Civil Service fashion produce lots of reports until the whole thing is forgotten.

Except of course it won't be forgotten and both sides will nurse and cultivate their resentment..........

Anyone who makes them a enemy or gets there account as such canceled is in for a very bad time.

Your cutting yourself off from suppliers of power armour to battle batrges.

Think there I'd fluff for one chapter who did, they where reduced to scavenging a wrecked ad mech ship for the kit they needed.

There a fractured but still massively powerful organisation

As said it all depends. An isolated Chapter with few allies that manages to irritate the AdMech is screwed. A respected First Founding like the Blood Angels can flip them off and still be first in line to get new tech (Stormraven).

A slugfest over resources? No one is going to judge the matter unless one of the parties takes it up, and neither the loser nor the winner is likely to want his shame made public. If it does get to the High Lords they're all divided. A Chapter with significant pull can get away with almost anything, but if it's a matter of technology and a lesser Chapter the HL will probably judge in favor of the AdMech.

The BAngels had the Storm Raven because they found the STC, I believe, and then gave it to the AdMech as a peace offering to get past the whole Lucius Engine debacle.

 TheFatElf wrote:
As the title says, how much authority/power does the Mechanicus hold? Say for example the AdMech and a Chapter of Space Marines came to blows over something, which side would be considered in the right? (Assuming that there is no 'trial', but rather an assumption is made by the relevant authorities)

And finally, where would they place amongst the other organisations of the Imperium in terms of authority? (i.e. more so than Imperial Guard, but less so than Space Marines)

Thanks!

The AdMech is one of the most powerful orginizations in the imperium. Mars and Earth entered into the JOINT empire represented by the dual headed eagle. The Admech is beyond the reach of nearly all other branches of the imperium.

But their are lots of parts of the admech. A skitarii legion is going to rank below a chapter of space marines. Even a titan legion might not get higher respect than some chapters. Most of the time, if some random elements of the admech showed up at the same time as a chapter of SM, the SM are going to win out in the who is right.
There are some extremely powerful magos in the admech though, such that if one of them showed up, they would be able to overrule a dozen space marine chapters. Those types of magos dont travel often, if they did, it would be dam important.

Just curios, as to the question as well, could the Fabricator General overrule a Primarch, if not, a Chapter Master?

Does anyone have a list of chapters that have pissed off the admech? And what they did?

This more applies to the higher ups but it works.

Wow, they sound more powerful than I expected!

How about their relationship with the inquisition? I'm guessing from the above that it's not wonderful.

They have their own Inquisition-like organisation, actually, the Agents of the Lords Dragon.

That said, its not really a case of "their relationship with the Inquisition". It's more a case of "The relationship between individual Inquisitors and the representatives of the Adeptus Mechanicus that they interact with".

Well, the Fabricator General is one of the High Lords, and IIRC the Mechanicus is not so much a part of the Imperium as that they are two separate empires who are so closely intertwined they might as well be one.

Without the Mechanicus, the Imperium will die, and the Mechanicus, if they survive the loss of Imperial might will be reduced to isolated Forge Worlds and their immediate surroundings, effectively killing them, too.
But IMO, there is no other single organisation within the Imperium that is as powerful, although the Ecclesiarchy is a close second simply due to the numbers it controls.

However, didn't the Mechanicum almost withdraw from the Imperium over the Ecclesiarchy under Vandire demanding they worship the Emperor the same way the rest of the Imperium did? I know there was an outright war between the two (with a few SM chapters like the Iron Hands siding with the Mechanicum, I believe).

Insert usual caveat about monolithic organisation sometimes working at cross purposes with itself yadda yadda.

 TheFatElf wrote:
Wow, they sound more powerful than I expected!

How about their relationship with the inquisition? I'm guessing from the above that it's not wonderful.

Furyo Miko's description of the nature of the Inquisition-Mechanicus is correct. In fact, the Inquisition, in general, never have wonderful relationships with anything, everyone is a potential suspect, including the inquisitors themselves.
That said, Inquisitors generally have to deal with the AdMech carefully, probably more carefully than most other organizations in the Imperium. The AdMech is autonomous, but unlike other autonomous organizations such as the SM Chapters and the Ecclesiarchy, it's also the second largest empire in the Imperium. They provide the war machines and munition for the weapons. No Inquisitor would be foolish enough to incur their ire without good reason, or he/she may soon be deprived of proper maintenance of their ships, and find their quarters mysterious leaking oxygen into the void...
On the other hand, the Inquisition do not fear the AdMech (as they shouldn't), as an Ordo was formed and dedicated to watch over the Martian priesthood. The Ordo Machinum's deal with troublesome Mechanicus individuals, probably subtly, through assassinations or intrigue.

The AdMech is the most powerful single faction in the Imperium. Their power shows in that they are technically not even part of the Imperium, they are only in alliance with it. It would be more fitting to see them as an independent empire within the Imperium, not as one of the Imperium's organisations.
As per the treaty of Olympus, the Imperium, not even the Inquisition, has the authority to interfere or meddle in the AdMech's affairs. The AdMech also has a different religion from the rest of the Imperium, worshipping the Omnissiah rather than the Emperor (altough some think the Emperor was the Omnissiah).
The AdMech has a monopoly (in theory at least) on all technology within the Imperium, so any SM Chapter that makes an enemy out of the AdMech is in very, very serious trouble. The SM are dependent on the AdMech for the training of Techmarines and thus the maintenance of their technology. Aside from that, a SM Chapter is also required to submit part of its geneseed to the AdMech to be checked for impurities.


So, to answer the OP:
If the AdMech and a SM Chapter came to blows, the AdMech would be in the right (even if they weren't) because the only relevant authorities that could be involved would be the AdMech itself and the High Lords (which for obvious reasons would side with the AdMech).
In terms of authority, a SM Chapter is second only to the Inquisition, AdMech and the High Lords.
The Admech is in a funny position regarding authority because they are outside the Imperium. They only answer to the High Lords (the leader of the AdMech is one of them).

 lcmiracle wrote:

On the other hand, the Inquisition do not fear the AdMech (as they shouldn't), as an Ordo was formed and dedicated to watch over the Martian priesthood. The Ordo Machinum's deal with troublesome Mechanicus individuals, probably subtly, through assassinations or intrigue.

The Ordo Machinum only watches over the implementation of Mechanicus technology within the Imperium and makes sure the AdMech keeps up their side of the bargain. I do not think they are not allowed to persecute Mechanicus members (as per the treaty of Olympus). Only the AdMech has the authority and knowledge to decide when one has become a Heretek.
I do not think the Inquisition, as one of the most powerful institutions (or rather, collection of powerful individuals) within the Imperium, fears the AdMech (they even dare to hide tech from them), but on the other hand the AdMech does not fear the Inquisition either. I would expect there to be quite a lot of friction between both, but in the end, they can't touch each other.

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The AdMech has a monopoly (in theory at least) on all technology within the Imperium, so any SM Chapter that makes an enemy out of the AdMech is in very, very serious trouble. The SM are dependent on the AdMech for the training of Techmarines and thus the maintenance of their technology. Aside from that, a SM Chapter is also required to submit part of its geneseed to the AdMech to be checked for impurities.

Technically, Mechanicus only has monopoly over Research and Development. All R&D has been transferred to Mechanicus, with local R&D supervised/controlled by the Mechanicus.

They can't control all the technology in the Imperium due to it's loose organization.

Bran Dawri wrote:

However, didn't the Mechanicum almost withdraw from the Imperium over the Ecclesiarchy under Vandire demanding they worship the Emperor the same way the rest of the Imperium did? I know there was an outright war between the two (with a few SM chapters like the Iron Hands siding with the Mechanicum, I believe).

Not quite. The Mechanicum, Imperial Fists, Soul Drinkers, Fire Hawks and Black Templars moved against Vandire after he hung the rest of the High Lords as traitors.

 Finlandiaperkele wrote:

 Iron_Captain wrote:
The AdMech has a monopoly (in theory at least) on all technology within the Imperium, so any SM Chapter that makes an enemy out of the AdMech is in very, very serious trouble. The SM are dependent on the AdMech for the training of Techmarines and thus the maintenance of their technology. Aside from that, a SM Chapter is also required to submit part of its geneseed to the AdMech to be checked for impurities.

Technically, Mechanicus only has monopoly over Research and Development. All R&D has been transferred to Mechanicus, with local R&D supervised/controlled by the Mechanicus.

They can't control all the technology in the Imperium due to it's loose organization.

The AdMech is also responsible for maintenance (techpriests, enginseers) and production (forgeworlds, STCs). Any unauthorised modification of technology is heresy.
Of course, the Imperium is too large for the AdMech to be everywhere at the same time, so they can not always exercise a tight control on everything. That is why I said: "in theory".

Theory backed up by the fact that anyone who has the knowledge to maintain or cosntruct anything has stolen it...

lliu wrote:
Just curios, as to the question as well, could the Fabricator General overrule a Primarch, if not, a Chapter Master?

Chapter Master, easily. Lesser AD mech than the Fabricator General have created whole Chapters of space marines to serve as their thralls
Primarchs are a different story.... Horus was second only to the Emperor in power and respect.

 Exergy wrote:

lliu wrote:
Just curios, as to the question as well, could the Fabricator General overrule a Primarch, if not, a Chapter Master?

Chapter Master, easily. Lesser AD mech than the Fabricator General have created whole Chapters of space marines to serve as their thralls

I can only recall one being created and the admech got caught and had to "give it back"

The iron hands are almost allied to them strongly, there independent but maintain a good link with the ad mech and probbly more willing to do combined operations with them

 Exergy wrote:

lliu wrote:
Just curios, as to the question as well, could the Fabricator General overrule a Primarch, if not, a Chapter Master?

Chapter Master, easily. Lesser AD mech than the Fabricator General have created whole Chapters of space marines to serve as their thralls
Primarchs are a different story.... Horus was second only to the Emperor in power and respect.

So, could he overrule some of the lesser Primarchs?

lliu wrote:

 Exergy wrote:

lliu wrote:
Just curios, as to the question as well, could the Fabricator General overrule a Primarch, if not, a Chapter Master?

Chapter Master, easily. Lesser AD mech than the Fabricator General have created whole Chapters of space marines to serve as their thralls
Primarchs are a different story.... Horus was second only to the Emperor in power and respect.

So, could he overrule some of the lesser Primarchs?

Well just about anyone could overrule Kurze on a bad day, but no my point was that Horus was a clear #2 to big E. The rest of the Primarchs fell behind him and above any mortal. I think the lesser primarchs would still have authority over the Fabricator General, but perhaps not total. The Fab Gen at that time probably was the most powerful mortal in the IoM.

The Fabricator General post-heresy is a High Lord of Terra, so he could overrule pretty much anyone besides another High Lord.

Pre-heresy, there was only one Fabricator General, Kelbor Hal. I'm not aware of him interacting with the primarchs very often, but when he "interacted" with Horus to join Horus in the Heresy, it was more as an ally than a subordinate as far as I can tell (with Horus promising him access to forbidden tech that the Emperor would not allow)

During the Age of Apostacy the mechanicum mostly tried to stay away from the madness. They didn't threaten to break away from the Imperium, at least, not by themselves. When the Fabricator General at the time finally couldn't stand it anymore, he didn't say "Stop that crap Vandire, or else the mechanicum will leave." He instead said "Stop that!", Vandire said "No." and then he said "Hey every member of the Imperium that's not an evil idiot, join me and let's take down this jackass." (which was probably the more correct action to take)

The Fab Gen at that time probably was the most powerful mortal in the IoM.

About even or slightly lower than the current depiciton of the Sigilite I should think? or given the Fantasy End Times maybe that should be the Sigmarlite

Didn't the Mechanicus steal a literal chapter relic from the Soul Drinkers - which drove them to attack them harshly in retalation?

That is somewhat ballsy if you ask me.

fidel wrote:
Didn't the Mechanicus steal a literal chapter relic from the Soul Drinkers - which drove them to attack them harshly in retalation?

That is somewhat ballsy if you ask me.

Alot of the story in Soul Drinkers books is quite........different and unusual Its as canon as anything else produced by GW/BL but its often...."different"

the admech, like many MANY other orginizations in the IoM don't nesscarily have a set number of powers neatly tied up in a bow. the admech does have certin rights and expectations, laid out in their original treaty with the Emperor, but the full extent of their power is going to also depend, heavily, on (like any another big shot faction in the IoM) the influance they can bring to bear.

 Mr Morden wrote:

fidel wrote:
Didn't the Mechanicus steal a literal chapter relic from the Soul Drinkers - which drove them to attack them harshly in retalation?

That is somewhat ballsy if you ask me.

Alot of the story in Soul Drinkers books is quite........different and unusual Its as canon as anything else produced by GW/BL but its often...."different"

Yeah but still.... sounds like something they would do. They are more secretive and selfish than the inquisition - or at least at their level haha