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Is this something that could be possible? As specific companies or entire chapters being expelled from the IOM because the offended the wrong people or missed Emperor communion?
Thoughts?

It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

Not sure, It's got nothing to do with the Tau, so his posting here is even more confusing.

Excommunication in Warhammer is usually accompanied by more shooting than excommunication in Catholicism.

catholicism could learn a lot from the imperium.

 daddyorchips wrote:
catholicism could learn a lot from the imperium.

Stupid comment of the day.

 daddyorchips wrote:
catholicism could learn a lot from the imperium.

Not like the Imperium couldn't stand to learn a lot from Catholicism. End of the day despite what they love to tell you nobody has all the answers.

 Orblivion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

He's referring to the Abyssal Crusade. The fact that some came back and killed the Ecclesiarch is beside the point, but the fact that THE Ecclesiarch was instrumental in sending 30 Chapters on a one-way crusade into the Eye of Terror is without question the biggest canon example of what the OP was asking about.

 Gashrog wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

He's referring to the Abyssal Crusade. The fact that some came back and killed the Ecclesiarch is beside the point, but the fact that THE Ecclesiarch was instrumental in sending 30 Chapters on a one-way crusade into the Eye of Terror is without question the biggest canon example of what the OP was asking about.

... and how well it sometimes works our for the Ecclesiarchy.

The Abyssal Crusade is something I'd love to read more about.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

He's referring to the Abyssal Crusade. The fact that some came back and killed the Ecclesiarch is beside the point, but the fact that THE Ecclesiarch was instrumental in sending 30 Chapters on a one-way crusade into the Eye of Terror is without question the biggest canon example of what the OP was asking about.

... and how well it sometimes works our for the Ecclesiarchy.

The Abyssal Crusade is something I'd love to read more about.

And the Imperium bashing goes on and on, Y'all probably forgot to mention the "Ecclesiarch" wasn't even an Ecclesiarch but an Imperial Saint who was later found out to be a pawn of Chaos.
You need to grow out of it Norton.

 Khonsu wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

He's referring to the Abyssal Crusade. The fact that some came back and killed the Ecclesiarch is beside the point, but the fact that THE Ecclesiarch was instrumental in sending 30 Chapters on a one-way crusade into the Eye of Terror is without question the biggest canon example of what the OP was asking about.

... and how well it sometimes works our for the Ecclesiarchy.

The Abyssal Crusade is something I'd love to read more about.

And the Imperium bashing goes on and on, Y'all probably forgot to mention the "Ecclesiarch" wasn't even an Ecclesiarch but an Imperial Saint who was later found out to be a pawn of Chaos.
You need to grow out of it Norton.

I wasn't bashing on anything.

Bassilius was the most powerful man in the Church at the time. Seems like splitting hairs to me.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Khonsu wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Gashrog wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Orblivion wrote:
It has happened many times, they are declared Excommunicate Traitoris.

There have also been Space Marine chapters that have been sent into the Warp to die by the Ecclesiarchy that have come back out and killed the head ecclesiarch.

What does that have to do with the topic?

He's referring to the Abyssal Crusade. The fact that some came back and killed the Ecclesiarch is beside the point, but the fact that THE Ecclesiarch was instrumental in sending 30 Chapters on a one-way crusade into the Eye of Terror is without question the biggest canon example of what the OP was asking about.

... and how well it sometimes works our for the Ecclesiarchy.

The Abyssal Crusade is something I'd love to read more about.

And the Imperium bashing goes on and on, Y'all probably forgot to mention the "Ecclesiarch" wasn't even an Ecclesiarch but an Imperial Saint who was later found out to be a pawn of Chaos.
You need to grow out of it Norton.

I wasn't bashing on anything.

Bassilius was the most powerful man in the Church at the time. Seems like splitting hairs to me.

There's a pretty big difference between an official state position of the Ecclesiarch and an affiliated but influential religious role as an Imperial Saint. Basillius had power no doubt, but he did not represent the Ecclesiarchy and its disingenuous to treat as if this was a normal thing that occurred for the Imperium, given that a penitent crusade on such a large and collective scale hasn't been shown anywhere else in the fluff and how Basillius is later revealed to be a heretic.

moving on from weather or not Norton;s statement is valid or not, I think it's worth noting that excommunication isn't going to be COMMON. and it won't be for something minor like missing mass or something. generally it takes outright treason or blatent chaos worship for space marines to be excommunicated.

BrianDavion wrote:
moving on from weather or not Norton;s statement is valid or not, I think it's worth noting that excommunication isn't going to be COMMON. and it won't be for something minor like missing mass or something. generally it takes outright treason or blatent chaos worship for space marines to be excommunicated.

And even then, most excommunication doesn't involve expelling condemned chapters since that would imply giving them autonomy. It typically involves them being executed on the spot or hunted down into oblivion by other loyalist chapters.

The Abyssal Crusade is a good exemple (if a bit extreme) of Space Marines Chapters being excommunicated. Some are also send in Crusade of Penance like the Lamenters and some individual Space Marine can be declared excommunicated for various reasons.

I would also mention that Saint Basillius was indeed only a member of the Ecclesiarchy, yet extremely influencial because he was leading purity purge with great efficency in the Imperium. He also wasn't killed by the surviving Space Marines, because he was already dead at that point. His shrines were destroyed and his relics thrown into a star.

epronovost wrote:
The Abyssal Crusade is a good exemple (if a bit extreme) of Space Marines Chapters being excommunicated. Some are also send in Crusade of Penance like the Lamenters and some individual Space Marine can be declared excommunicated for various reasons.

I would also mention that Saint Basillius was indeed only a member of the Ecclesiarchy, yet extremely influencial because he was leading purity purge with great efficency in the Imperium. He also wasn't killed by the surviving Space Marines, because he was already dead at that point. His shrines were destroyed and his relics thrown into a star.

Actually he was still alive albeit in a decrepit state and was executed.

It depends on the heresy...

Sometimes they will be executed, sometimes they will be sent into the warp, sometimes they will be sent on a crusade to repent.

Sometimes an individual astartes will be dishonorably 'discharged' from the chapter (because they are too valuable to be executed)

 Grimskul wrote:


There's a pretty big difference between an official state position of the Ecclesiarch and an affiliated but influential religious role as an Imperial Saint. Basillius had power no doubt, but he did not represent the Ecclesiarchy and its disingenuous to treat as if this was a normal thing that occurred for the Imperium, given that a penitent crusade on such a large and collective scale hasn't been shown anywhere else in the fluff and how Basillius is later revealed to be a heretic.

Yes, there's a difference. Bassilius clearly had more power than the overwhelming majority of church leaders... and it's hardly the first time a leader of the church went crazy.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


There's a pretty big difference between an official state position of the Ecclesiarch and an affiliated but influential religious role as an Imperial Saint. Basillius had power no doubt, but he did not represent the Ecclesiarchy and its disingenuous to treat as if this was a normal thing that occurred for the Imperium, given that a penitent crusade on such a large and collective scale hasn't been shown anywhere else in the fluff and how Basillius is later revealed to be a heretic.

Yes, there's a difference. Bassilius clearly had more power than the overwhelming majority of church leaders... and it's hardly the first time a leader of the church went crazy.

sure no society is perfect and conflicts and abuses of power will happen in em

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


There's a pretty big difference between an official state position of the Ecclesiarch and an affiliated but influential religious role as an Imperial Saint. Basillius had power no doubt, but he did not represent the Ecclesiarchy and its disingenuous to treat as if this was a normal thing that occurred for the Imperium, given that a penitent crusade on such a large and collective scale hasn't been shown anywhere else in the fluff and how Basillius is later revealed to be a heretic.

Yes, there's a difference. Bassilius clearly had more power than the overwhelming majority of church leaders... and it's hardly the first time a leader of the church went crazy.

sure no society is perfect and conflicts and abuses of power will happen in em

... and since the OP wondered if the Church was responsible for some of them...

 EmpNortonII wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:


There's a pretty big difference between an official state position of the Ecclesiarch and an affiliated but influential religious role as an Imperial Saint. Basillius had power no doubt, but he did not represent the Ecclesiarchy and its disingenuous to treat as if this was a normal thing that occurred for the Imperium, given that a penitent crusade on such a large and collective scale hasn't been shown anywhere else in the fluff and how Basillius is later revealed to be a heretic.

Yes, there's a difference. Bassilius clearly had more power than the overwhelming majority of church leaders... and it's hardly the first time a leader of the church went crazy.

sure no society is perfect and conflicts and abuses of power will happen in em

... and since the OP wondered if the Church was responsible for some of them...

For instance the Tau are led by a cult of demi-enslavers.
Nothing and no one states Basillius had more power, Or that he even operated within the Confines of the Ecclesiarchy, He was a "saint", Just like with Saint Sabbath that doesn't mean he sprang from the Ecclesiarchy - He was clearly endorsed by it though.

Apparently it also depends on the chapter in question. Something I've come across on Lexicanum and I think is somewhat relevant (primary source quoted is Codex: Space Wolves (5th Edition)):


886.M41 - The Fenris Incident. The Ecclesiarchy arrives at Fenris to investigate a claim of their worship of pagan gods. The Space Wolves orbital defenses fire upon the Ecclesiarchy vessel, chasing it away. Almost a year later, an Ecclesiarchy fleet and three Orders of the Adepta Sororitas attempt to land on Fenris by force. A three-week war erupts before the Ecclesiarchy decides to withdraw.

So apparently at least some chapters can cross the Ecclesiarchy pretty badly and still go about their business, which leads me to believe you need either a lot of power or a lot of proof (probably both) to excommunicate a chapter.

Nah, its just the Space Wolves are special shiny snowflakes who ignore half the rest of the setting lore.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, its just the Space Wolves are special shiny snowflakes who ignore half the rest of the setting lore.

TBH I think all first founding chapters are set somewhat above the rest of the Space Marines.

LordBlades wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Nah, its just the Space Wolves are special shiny snowflakes who ignore half the rest of the setting lore.

TBH I think all first founding chapters are set somewhat above the rest of the Space Marines.

The Space Wolves are not Space Marines at all, Read them up and you'll understand.
They are literally a Chapter of beastility loving Primarch-Marines according to recent lore.

Sons of Malice were excommunicated because they kept all the long pig for themselves and still wouldn't share when the Inquisition and Adeptus Sororitas crashed their outdoor BBQ party.

Doom Legion and wolf brothers just off of the top of my head.

I just wanted to point out that there's a big difference between going on a Crusade of Penance (The Lamenters, The Abyssal Crusade) and being declared Excommunicate Traitoris. A Crusade of Penance means the Chapter can be forgiven once the requirements of penance are fulfilled (and the requirement may be, keep crusading till you're all dead). As long as the Chapter is doing the Penance, the Imperium will leave them be.

With Excommunicate Traitoris, a Chapter or Marine would be considered an enemy of the Imperium. No forgiveness, and the only suitable sentence is a bullet in the head. It's an execution order.

The Abyssal Crusades happened because, supposedly, those thirty Chapters had corrupted gene-seed (i.e. mutation). It was a "do penance until your all dead" deal, but none of them were declared Excommunicate Traitoris (at the time). Of course, the tainted gene-seed thing turned out to be a lie and Basilius was a pawn of Chaos, which is why his plan was so flat out stupid.

"We think you might be corrupted, so go fight a crusade in the place that corrupts everything, against other corrupted super soldiers that used to be just like you before they were corrupted and became our worst enemies. This can only end in good things! Why yes, I think I would like more giant statues in my honor!"