Author |
Message |
 |
|
 |
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 17:35:05
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
So taking space wolves as the example model.
I can see how an airbrush is gonna make a box of them the desired shade of blue much quicker than doing them with a brush...
... But surely as soon as I get to any kind of details, I'll be pulling out the brushes again anyway?
If its just gonna make basing faster I dunno if I can justify the cost.
Unless its entirely feasible to airbrush all those wolf pelts and skulls etc?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 17:40:04
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Never Forget Isstvan!
|
You can do it, but for me personally an all airbrushed model looks kinda bad and I am really disliking the trend of doing it all with an airbrush. Though it will save you time on base coats especially with vehicles.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 17:51:40
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I am thinking more for base coats, but by that I mean the blue armour AND the white skulls AMD the brown/black fur... Not just the blue
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 18:02:32
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Gargantuan Gargant
|
99.9% of people who use an airbrush are still going to finish a model off with the old 'hairy sticks.' You can do small details with a combination of fine control and masks, but masking off complex parts often takes more time than just painting them the 'old fashioned' way. Even if you can't/shouldn't use it for everything, the fact that those basecoats and zenithal highlights were laid down all the faster for using the airbrush still results in a net time savings... in some cases.
The setup and cleaning regimen for airbrushing even a single color (not to mention the cleaning between colors) can make it the slower method, if painting a single, small model. Where it really shines is during batch painting and large pieces, when you can fill the cup and (artfully) hose down a whole squad/tank or more in a matter of minutes. Assuming an effectively fixed time for setup and cleaning, the more things you spray in one go, the more time you've saved.
Granted, none of this is factoring in the learning curve to actually use the airbrush effectively. If you went and bought one to speed up your army painting, you'd quite likely see a drop in efficiency before it took an upswing, eventually surpassing your original level (possibly by quite a bit).
Basically, an airbrush can greatly speed up the painting process, but it's far from guaranteed to. Whether it does, and to what degree, largely depends on you.
|
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 18:12:30
Subject: Re:how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Monstrous Master Moulder
Longmeadow MA 25+ Trade Rep
|
|
"Orkses never lost a battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"
I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness. ADB |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 19:21:39
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
oadie wrote:99.9% of people who use an airbrush are still going to finish a model off with the old 'hairy sticks.' You can do small details with a combination of fine control and masks, but masking off complex parts often takes more time than just painting them the 'old fashioned' way. Even if you can't/shouldn't use it for everything, the fact that those basecoats and zenithal highlights were laid down all the faster for using the airbrush still results in a net time savings... in some cases.
The setup and cleaning regimen for airbrushing even a single color (not to mention the cleaning between colors) can make it the slower method, if painting a single, small model. Where it really shines is during batch painting and large pieces, when you can fill the cup and (artfully) hose down a whole squad/tank or more in a matter of minutes. Assuming an effectively fixed time for setup and cleaning, the more things you spray in one go, the more time you've saved.
Granted, none of this is factoring in the learning curve to actually use the airbrush effectively. If you went and bought one to speed up your army painting, you'd quite likely see a drop in efficiency before it took an upswing, eventually surpassing your original level (possibly by quite a bit).
Basically, an airbrush can greatly speed up the painting process, but it's far from guaranteed to. Whether it does, and to what degree, largely depends on you.
That's a pretty perfect answer to the question, in mg opinion!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 19:54:47
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Fresh-Faced New User
|
in my opinion there is no bad thing to use other tools to paint. Airbrush is a great tool but people want to look better when they say " its brush only"
I'm an artist, I paint, draw and tattoo. Heard a lot that oil paints are for masters only. B$. oils are one of the easiest mediums I used.
If airbrush will help you, and your models will look better ( because you will have to learn new medium and techniques) why not to use?
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 23:38:54
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Maniacal Gibbering Madboy
|
Previous posters have summed it up pretty neatly. my own two cents is this:
I was bought an air brush for christmas. With it I painted an entire 1500 point eldar army in around 20 hours, and it looked great, especially the larger models and vehicles. I could never have done that previously.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 23:49:29
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Auspicious Skink Shaman
Louth, Ireland
|
Its another tool, it doesn't make you an amazing painter, it's great for basecoats and laying on blends but doesn't make everything amazing.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/09 23:56:14
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
SQUAAAAAK its another tool. but dont expect to only use it and get golden demon quality job. especially on marines. Though it can be fine on something like nids with organic bits only.
Squaaaak poly want a cracker!
|
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/10 11:39:12
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Work mate brought in a semi finished deathwing model today to show how he uses an airbrush.
I can see clearer now how certain effects might be achieved at least.
I might take a shot at it if not just for base coating quickly, it takes me so long to paint a model, even if I make one stage quicker that'll help
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/10 13:43:27
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Gargantuan Gargant
|
Don't forget, it also opens up a lot of possibilities in terms of priming and varnishing. Some of the best products out there either aren't available in an aerosol can, are cheaper as a bottle of liquid, or are tough to control in inclement weather. If you did get an airbrush, you'd save time/money/headache in other areas, too, even if you never tried to paint a single detail with it.
|
The Dreadnote wrote:But the Emperor already has a shrine, in the form of your local Games Workshop. You honour him by sacrificing your money to the plastic effigies of his warriors. In time, your devotion will be rewarded with the gift of having even more effigies to worship. |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/10 15:14:31
Subject: Re:how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Newbie Black Templar Neophyte
England
|
I think the topic has been answered well already, I just want to add my little bit.
Airbrushes are incredibly effective at certain things, especially vehicles in my opinion. It's great at achieving effects, in conjunction with other products, and weathering too especially. I also prefer priming with an airbrush after years of rattle cans, but again this is only my opinion. They are definitely a great tool to have but more of an addition rather than a replacement to the good old brush
|
"Trust in the Emperor at the hour of battle.
Trust to him to intercede, and protect his warriors true as they deal death on alien soil.
Turn their seas to red with the blood of their slain.
Crush their hopes, their dreams
And turn their songs into cries of lamentation."
- "Uphold the honour of the Emperor", |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/10 18:20:40
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Thane of Dol Guldur
|
I think theres no substance to the argument of airbrushes being faster. Like you say, you will be using brushes anyway, then when you factor in cleaning, mixing paints, the multiple dis and re assemblies, its not really faster at all. Airbrush has lots of benefits but faster is not one of them
|
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children
Instagram: nagrakali_love_songs |
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/10 18:28:37
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Legendary Master of the Chapter
|
queen_annes_revenge wrote:I think theres no substance to the argument of airbrushes being faster. Like you say, you will be using brushes anyway, then when you factor in cleaning, mixing paints, the multiple dis and re assemblies, its not really faster at all. Airbrush has lots of benefits but faster is not one of them
It IS the fastest way to get a good clean and uniform coat of paint on everything from titans to infantry though.
Trying to get a good even coat using multiple coats with thinned down paints on a titan or even general vehicles take a LONG time.
not that you cant do a good job with hand painting.
|
Unit1126PLL wrote: Scott-S6 wrote:And yet another thread is hijacked for Unit to ask for the same advice, receive the same answers and make the same excuses.
Oh my god I'm becoming martel.
Send help!
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/11 13:46:01
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Dakka Veteran
|
Soteks Prophet wrote:Its another tool, it doesn't make you an amazing painter, it's great for basecoats and laying on blends but doesn't make everything amazing.
I'd say those are the two most important things. All the details, hard edges, clean lines etc. are better done with a brush.
Those zombies remind me that airbrushed grayscale basecoat + ink/wash colour might be a really fast way to do heavily organic models.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 06:36:33
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Anti-Armour Swiss Guard
|
Airbrush should be just one tool in the toolbox, not THE toolbox.
|
I'm OVER 50 (and so far over everyone's BS, too).
Old enough to know better, young enough to not give a ****.
That is not dead which can eternal lie ...
... and yet, with strange aeons, even death may die.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 06:44:13
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
|
For infantry models, having an airbrush has not sped me up at all. If anything, it's made me slower. There are precious few infantry models that benefit (in terms of speed) from using an airbrush. You typically have to design your scheme around the airbrush if you want to speed paint with it and that's not always possible. You might be able to lay down a basecoat faster, but when it comes to infantry that's usually not the most time consuming step anyway and once you include the set up time and cleaning it you don't really save much time at all unless you are painting very large numbers of models at once, even then you sometimes have to clean halfway through if you get a clog. On the bigger stuff like tanks, it's night and day, the airbrush is MUCH faster. Instead of taking several hours to lay down a nice streak-free basecoat by hairy brush, it only takes a few minutes with an airbrush. Of course the same thing can be achieved with a spray can if your only objective is speed and you can find a colour that matches what you want. I know airbrushes are all the rage at the moment... but I do think for your average wargamer you have to consider "what am I going to be painting with this?" before you decide to invest heavily in one. Orks/Orcs for example, I think the benefit to having an airbrush is minimal. Space Marines, you can get some good results but you have to use different techniques to what you were using with your hairy brush, so if you're half way through an army and don't want to repaint all your existing models, it's probably not worth it. If you have a mass of tanks, it's a great investment (though consider whether you'd be better served just using spray cans).
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/04/13 06:49:08
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 07:13:05
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
AllSeeingSkink wrote:There are precious few infantry models that benefit (in terms of speed) from using an airbrush.
On the bigger stuff like tanks, it's night and day, the airbrush is MUCH faster. Instead of taking several hours to lay down a nice streak-free basecoat by hairy brush, it only takes a few minutes with an airbrush. Of course the same thing can be achieved with a spray can if your only objective is speed and you can find a colour that matches what you want.
Space Marines and other 40k infantry do just fine with that airbrush (or rattle can) basecoat - just like armor of pretty much any type. Where the spray fails is on models with patterns and contrasts. But even then, if the model is mostly one color, spray away!
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 07:15:56
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Regular Dakkanaut
|
I have an airbrush that has, predominantly, been used for priming. Just a cheep Chinese one. This was mainly down to not having the space to use aerosol primers.
BUT I am starting to use it for more than that. As many others have said things like vehicles I would say is an absolute must (I play Imperial Guard so lots and lots of vehicles to go through).
Also consider this. Spray the Imperial Guard down in the Vallejo equivalent of Steel Legion Drab. Then use Khaki and do a 45 degree spray on the guard so that it only captures the upper part of the model. You have a two stage highlight (Zenital i think they call it). From a tabletop perspective it looks great and fairly quick to do. Then paint the upper armour and highlight. I am even going to try the method of masking Angel Giraldez use (tape/masking putty close up and cellophane/shrink wrap around the rest) and see if that can be used. Then it is just a matter of some edge highlights.
But as others have said, it is another tool to use and should never be the only tool.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/04/13 07:18:08
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 07:58:05
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Fixture of Dakka
|
Outside of basecoat, you need to figure out where on the spectrum your "tabletop quality" falls. Consider a typical infantry model that looks like it's mostly one color (like a space marine). Even so, at a minimum you have things like: visors, weapon, chest eagle, purity seals, chords or chains, belts and belt pouches, shoulder markings, and faction markings.
Does it all get painted the same color as the power armor? Do you just want some color variation so that you can put it on the tabletop and meet play requirements? If so, then of course, it's a no-brainer: spraying it is way faster. Base it one color, hit it on a couple of angles with highlights, do a wash, call it a day.
But if you want the purity seal to have 2-color red wax, parchment paper, shading, highlights, and squiggles -- that's 5 paints right there, and nearly impossible to do with an airbrush (certainly, impossible to do *efficiently*).
If you want a 4-color visor lens (giving it a jewel-like glassy effect), that's pretty much impossible with an airbrush.
That shoulder pad: if you want to write, freehand, "PAX IMPERIALIS", you must use a paintbrush. If you want to draw a flesh tearers symbol, no airbrush there.
What if it's a model with a chord that connects a flamer to a backpack? Do you just paint it blue like the rest of the space marine, or should it be silver? If it's going to be silver, there's no way on Earth someone can paint it with an airbrush faster than a paintbrush.
Finally, every color change on an airbrush has overhead. So, no biggie if your model has 3 paints (as Skink mentioned, a tank is a great example). But it's a huge deal if your model uses 20 paints with little bits picked out everywhere.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 08:00:48
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Grizzled Space Wolves Great Wolf
|
JohnHwangDD wrote:AllSeeingSkink wrote:There are precious few infantry models that benefit (in terms of speed) from using an airbrush.
On the bigger stuff like tanks, it's night and day, the airbrush is MUCH faster. Instead of taking several hours to lay down a nice streak-free basecoat by hairy brush, it only takes a few minutes with an airbrush. Of course the same thing can be achieved with a spray can if your only objective is speed and you can find a colour that matches what you want.
Space Marines and other 40k infantry do just fine with that airbrush (or rattle can) basecoat - just like armor of pretty much any type. Where the spray fails is on models with patterns and contrasts. But even then, if the model is mostly one color, spray away!
Yeah of course you can basecoat them with an airbrush, but I was primarily talking about speed. When I speed paint a model before I got my airbrush, my typical process is...
1 . Clean mould lines and assemble (5 to 10 minutes per model)
2. Spray white undercoat (say about 1 minute per model, obviously done as a batch)
3. Apply basecoats using heavily thinned paint and a large flat brush (typically allow about 2 to 3 minutes per colour)
4. Apply washes (typically 1 to 2 minutes per colour)
5. Details (varies wildly in time)
So you're looking about 20 to 30 minutes per model, basecoating with an airbrush is only going to save a couple of minutes there in the middle at most, and even then it depends how large of a batch you do at a time because you have to allow for airbrush prep and cleaning.
If you're not talking about speed painting, but rather doing a decent job of it, the basecoat step is still only a few minutes out of maybe a couple of hours painting the model, so it doesn't speed you up considerably.
It does, however, open the door to different techniques. That's more the point of an airbrush IMO, the additional techniques you can do.
In the context of infantry, I think that's the primary reason to get an airbrush, it doesn't speed you up but it lets you do things you couldn't do with a hairy brush.
In the context of tanks it definitely speeds you up a lot (though a spray can may serve you better if your only goal is speed).
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 10:29:31
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Thinking of Joining a Davinite Loge
|
I've found the only real massive speed increase with doing infantry has been painting dark angels robes. The airbrush is much quicker, even, and gives a better looking end result. On vehicles it's a no-brainer. It's faster. But yeah, it doesn't really speed up infantry painting majorly.
My experience, anyway. And agreeing with the above posters, the techniques they allow you access to are probably a better reason for getting one.
|
My $0.02, which since 1992 has rounded to nothing. Take with salt.
Elysian Drop Troops, Dark Angels, 30K
Mercenaries, Retribution
Ten Thunders, Neverborn
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 13:05:58
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Swift Swooping Hawk
|
Airbrush will only speed up infantry if you are doing big batches.
It allows you to basecoat, zenithal lighting, shading and OSL.
For exemple in my upcoming project I have 30 Dire Avengers to paint. Put some blue tack under them put them on an old hockey stick. Basecoat, switch paint, rotate the stick lightly, shade, switch paint, rotate the stick slightly highlight and boom.
30 guys shaded and highlighted in about an hour.
If you pulling out your airbrush everytime you need to paint 1-3 models it will not feel like you are going faster.
The more you have to do, the faster it will go.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 17:02:53
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
For me, the big advantage for spraying is getting a quick, smooth, consistent basecoat. That's a huge win.
|
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/13 19:33:13
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Boosting Ultramarine Biker
|
I would probably have quit painting. The airbrush speeds up the process considerably and allows me to achieve color blends that would take hours longer even if I had mastered how to do it with a brush.
I still use a brush, washes, dipping, dry-brushing, etc as well but the airbrush compliments all of them.
|
|
 |
 |
![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2015/04/14 05:15:31
Subject: how much quicker with airbrush really?
|
 |
Trustworthy Shas'vre
|
Just buy it.
You will quickly realize so many things that you can do that either were very difficult before, or just impossible to do at a reasonable pace.
It will change your painting life.
Really.
Find someone who has one, and try it.
You won't regret it.
|
DavePak
"Remember, in life, the only thing you absolutely control is your own attitude - do not squander that power."
Fully Painted armies:
TAU: 10k Nids: 9600 Marines: 4000 Crons: 7600
Actor, Gamer, Comic, Corporate Nerd
|
|
 |
 |
|