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And give the Eldar JB's Scatter Lasers. For a point of reference, 5x EJB with Scatter Lasers cost 135 points. For now, we'll assume no further cheese such as Psychic Shenanegans.

Yes, this is a silly pit-fight scenario, with no particular value other than for the giggles. It's just a game, don't get too bent out of shape by it. There aren't going to be any medals for winners, hopefully just some fun ideas thrown around.

Pros:

Moves like an Eldar Jet Bike. Ignores intervening cover unless you start / end in it. Mv: 12", Sh: 36", As: 2d6", if did not flat out.
MEQ BS, T, and Save.
Can Jink
4 shot, 36", S:6 gun, each. [5 guy should hit an average of 13 times]
Due to large base size, a well spread unit should only be hit once by a small blast that scores a "hit", and probably hit twice by a large blast that scores a "hit".

Ideally, the unit skirts maximum range, hops in and out of LOS with their Assault "Thrust" moves, and avoids Hand to Hand.


I'll Start!

140 pts: 5x Death Company with Jump Packs, 1x Power Fist.
135 pts: 5x EJB w/ SL

Comparison: No comparison. EJB move just as fast, with a gun that puts an average of 2.5 wounds per turn to the DC. Within 3 turns, I'm wiped out. This might get spread to 4 turns, if I corner the JBs and they need to Flat out to the other side of the table. There is potential for the DC to simply hide out of LOS, as well, which might result in their late-game destruction instead, after maneuver by the EJB.

2 x 3 spawn (one of the most undercosted non eldar/necron things in the game until this) 110pts

4 jetbikes with SL. 108pts

16 shots causes 7.11111 wounds per turn on the spawn. Looking at having lost almost 5 of them in 2 turns of shooting.
Spawn have no return fire and cannot catch the JBs despite being beasts.

Result after 3 turns: 6 dead spawn, jetbikes being inconvenienced by having to move once, no dead JBs.

2x Chaos Obliterators (no Marks)
vs
5x Jetbikes w/SL

The Obliterators Deep Strike within 12" of the Jetbikes and use their twin-linked Plasma Guns. Eldar Jink:

4 shots hit.
4 shots wound.
Jetbikes Jink-save 2, but lose 2.

The 3 remaining Jetbikes fly out of 36" range. Every turn they jump into 36" range to fire SL, then jump out again. Each time they deal 1 wound. Every second turn, the Obliterators get to shoot back with a Lascannon that might miss.

Conclusion: Jetbike victory.

--------------------------------------

I'm trying to think of a good low-points matchup, and I just can't think of one. Everything either doesn't have the speed or the range or both.


Flyrant w/2x Twin-Linked Devourers with Brainleech Worms
vs
8x Jetbikes

Flyrant goes first and kills about 3!
5x Jetbikes fire 20 shots, but only about 3 hit, and deal 1-2 wounds which are likely saved against.

Flyrant kills another 3.
2x Jetbikes hit with a shot or 2, but neither wound.

Flyrant finishes the unit off.


If the Jetbikes went first thought, they'd have a chance, but if the Flyrant has Catalyst, he also survives better.

Winner: Flyrant!
EDIT: But of course the Flyrant won't be in range on his back arc... so the Jetbikes just stay behind him and laugh. If he glides he takes about 7 wounds and then is close to death.
Real Winner: Jetbikes.

The best most tailored case to have a chance I can think of is Death Jester in a Starweaver. Absolute best chance is the Death Jester is part of the Heroes Path, so he gets stealth+shrouded. 130 points.

Turn 1: If DJ and Weaver go first, they can position dead center in the board and get a first shot off. 9x Shuriken Cannon shots on average 4 from Weaver 3 from Jester hit (rounding up on hitting). Let's say 4 from Weaver 2 from Jester wound (rounding down here)

Jester has about a 75% chance of a wound factoring in Bladestorm, and overall a 43.75% chance of causing morale failure if he hits. Combined they will cause approx. 2 wounds unsaved total if they fire together.

If three bikes then remain firing 12 shots 8 will hit ~1 will glance and they've got 50/50 odds of getting through. Since the thing has 2 HP, it'll survive 4 turns and it and the jester will get to fire full every other turn, with the Weaver snapfiring once.

If the bikes go first, the Death Jester gets one shot to cause a wound and a flee. But he is very unlikely to manage to get them to realistically run off the table. Even with his 2+, he will die in one round to combined shooting from all 5 bikes so he gets one shot after he disembarks.

Yeah. This is pretty stupid. I am curious about how something like Plasma nurgle bikers would fare but honestly that's the only one I'd hesitantly give the edge to. Once you get up to T6 you can kinda sorta manage to scratch the bikes.

Oh, here's a funny one too.

5 WR with SL: 135.

3 Skyweaver Jetbikes with Shuriken: 150.

against each other, the Windriders with their 3+ saves are actually almost exactly as durable as those skyweavers with their 4+ saves.

And they released these units what, like a month apart? SMH this is hilarious. I can't imagine how two guys didn't sit there with the two units across from each other and go "oi Joe you notice these two blighters are almost the exact same thing but one of them is 'alf the bloody cost of the other?" "Oi no I didn't notice that Bob I right figgered it was cause that one there had two blokes riding on it whilst the other had only one." "Oh, right. That seems about right then, no need to playtest it let's ship them."

My army doesn't have a fast moving unit. But 10 veterans with 2 plasmas and a flamer in a chimera cost ~170pts. 4 str 7 shots at 24" 3 str 5 and 3 str 6. for 170pts . Problem is lack of jink, much slower speed and being forced to snap fire if chimera moves faster.

Tomblades as part of a decurion. Seven tomblades (154 pts) vs your five jetbikes (135 pts). (Appreciate I'm over. So I skimmed elsewhere).

Jetbikes first: those 16 S6 ap- hits results in 12 wounds, 4 unsaved wounds 2 dead.
Tomblades now in rapid fire range 10 shots (TL) 9 hits, 7 wounds, 3ish dead.

2 bikes vs 5 blades.

8 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 1 unsaved wound, 1 dead (I'll be generous).
8 rapid fire shots (TL), 7 hits, 5 wounds, 2 dead.

Blades by third turn.

I always rounded up to favour shooter.

Necron Doomsday Ark - 175pts
5 Scatbikes - 185 pts

AV13 Doomsday Ark places it's rear arc to the table edge then starts firing 72" S10 AP1 Primary Weapon Large Blasts.

Jetbikes are unable to pierce Quantum Shielding and spend the game hiding.

Doomsday Ark wins (don't hear that very often )

Torquar wrote:
Necron Doomsday Ark - 175pts
5 Scatbikes - 185 pts

AV13 Doomsday Ark places it's rear arc to the table edge then starts firing 72" S10 AP1 Primary Weapon Large Blasts.

Jetbikes are unable to pierce Quantum Shielding and spend the game hiding. (Turbo boosting 36" to claim objectives as needed)

Doomsday Ark wins (don't hear that very often )

Jetbikes win.

the_scotsman wrote:

Torquar wrote:
Necron Doomsday Ark - 175pts
5 Scatbikes - 185 pts

AV13 Doomsday Ark places it's rear arc to the table edge then starts firing 72" S10 AP1 Primary Weapon Large Blasts.

Jetbikes are unable to pierce Quantum Shielding and spend the game hiding. (Turbo boosting 36" to claim objectives as needed)

Doomsday Ark wins (don't hear that very often )

Jetbikes win.

Sorry, thought this was a pit fight, not an objective-grab game

Small fairness quibble, is that 5 JB cost 135 points, not 185. So to be fair, there should be 6 or 7 JB.

So yes, they would tie, neither defeating the other. But that's the best unit in your codex?

Hehehe, I'll bite.

Thanatar Class Siege-Automata, with a Searchlight (just in case of Nightfighting), Enhanced Targetting Array and Paragon of Metal, for 291pts. That should be, what, 10 or 11 jetbikes? We'll go with 11.

Jetbikes ability to move and hide is useless, the plasma mortar (PM) is barrage. They can't get out of range with fancy movement, as their range is 36", and the PM is 48". They don't dare jink, because then their firepower becomes largely useless. That makes their cover options extremely limited (again, PM is barrage). I'll be generous and give the jetbikes some ruined area terrain, for a 4+ cover save (and we'll also ignore the dangerous terrain checks they would have to make to get in there and to move around to maintain coherency as they suffer losses). I'll also go with the OP's initial assumption that a 5" blast will hit two of them at a time (although, more likely, they would have to bunch up a bit to get that many into the terrain, increasing the chances of hitting more).

So, 44 S6 shots against the T8, 4W, 2+, 5++ Thanatar. That'll be .81 wounds on the Thanatar. Oh, but wait! Paragon of Metal also gives the Thanatar It Will Not Die, so that is reduced to .54 wounds per turn adding in the chance to regain a wound (or, we can simply negate/heal a wound every third turn, depending on how you want to look at it, I'm not the best at working out odds for things like that).

Thanatar shooting back, hitting 2 Jetbikes with the PM. PM is S8, AP2, Enhanced Targetting Array reduces cover saves by -1, and the PM requires you to reroll successful cover saves. So, 1.48 Jetbikes dead.

As Jetbikes die, their chances of wounding the Thanatar drop quickly, and also significantly depend on who gets to start shooting first, as those jetbikes can't afford to give up any models before they start shooting. Unfortunately for them, the Thanatar's 48" range makes it far more likely to shoot first, as the bikes would have to be within that 48" range for a turn in order to move in to shoot at 36".

By the time 3 turns have passed, the Thanatar, being generous, will have lost 2 full wounds (as IWND will have healed one in those three turns), and will have killed at least three to five Jetbikes. With that many Jetbikes lost, they will now start failing to cause any wounds at all on some turns, while IWND can quite possibly completely heal the Thanatar as it keeps killing off 1-2 Jetbikes a turn.

Oh, and the Jetbikes don't dare get closer, as then the Thanatar gets to use its TL Mauler Bolt Cannon at 24".

Thanatar, and, by extension, the Mechanicum, FTW!

Let's see...Flyrant with 2 Twin-linked Devourers, Regeneration 260 points.

9 EJB 243 points.

Remember, you did say "best unit".

According to averages...it is actually rather even. Both units will take 4 turns to kill the other.

Correction forgot to factor in Regeneration. It will take 5 turns to kill the Flyrant.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Second army - Blood Angels.

1 Land Raider (any type)

10 EJB

Land Raider sits in the middle of the board. Jetbikes can't hurt it.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Hehehe, I'll bite.

Thanatar Class Siege-Automata, with a Searchlight (just in case of Nightfighting), Enhanced Targetting Array and Paragon of Metal, for 291pts. That should be, what, 10 or 11 jetbikes? We'll go with 11.

Jetbikes ability to move and hide is useless, the plasma mortar (PM) is barrage. They can't get out of range with fancy movement, as their range is 36", and the PM is 48". They don't dare jink, because then their firepower becomes largely useless. That makes their cover options extremely limited (again, PM is barrage). I'll be generous and give the jetbikes some ruined area terrain, for a 4+ cover save (and we'll also ignore the dangerous terrain checks they would have to make to get in there and to move around to maintain coherency as they suffer losses). I'll also go with the OP's initial assumption that a 5" blast will hit two of them at a time (although, more likely, they would have to bunch up a bit to get that many into the terrain, increasing the chances of hitting more).

So, 44 S6 shots against the T8, 4W, 2+, 5++ Thanatar. That'll be .81 wounds on the Thanatar. Oh, but wait! Paragon of Metal also gives the Thanatar It Will Not Die, so that is reduced to .54 wounds per turn adding in the chance to regain a wound (or, we can simply negate/heal a wound every third turn, depending on how you want to look at it, I'm not the best at working out odds for things like that).

Thanatar shooting back, hitting 2 Jetbikes with the PM. PM is S8, AP2, Enhanced Targetting Array reduces cover saves by -1, and the PM requires you to reroll successful cover saves. So, 1.48 Jetbikes dead.

As Jetbikes die, their chances of wounding the Thanatar drop quickly, and also significantly depend on who gets to start shooting first, as those jetbikes can't afford to give up any models before they start shooting. Unfortunately for them, the Thanatar's 48" range makes it far more likely to shoot first, as the bikes would have to be within that 48" range for a turn in order to move in to shoot at 36".

By the time 3 turns have passed, the Thanatar, being generous, will have lost 2 full wounds (as IWND will have healed one in those three turns), and will have killed at least three to five Jetbikes. With that many Jetbikes lost, they will now start failing to cause any wounds at all on some turns, while IWND can quite possibly completely heal the Thanatar as it keeps killing off 1-2 Jetbikes a turn.

Oh, and the Jetbikes don't dare get closer, as then the Thanatar gets to use its TL Mauler Bolt Cannon at 24".

Thanatar, and, by extension, the Mechanicum, FTW!

Then I guess it's a good thing the thanatar is a 30k unit and jetbikes are 40k units.

Ffyllotek wrote:
Tomblades as part of a decurion. Seven tomblades (154 pts) vs your five jetbikes (135 pts). (Appreciate I'm over. So I skimmed elsewhere).

Jetbikes first: those 16 S6 ap- hits results in 12 wounds, 4 unsaved wounds 2 dead.
Tomblades now in rapid fire range 10 shots (TL) 9 hits, 7 wounds, 3ish dead.

2 bikes vs 5 blades.

8 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 1 unsaved wound, 1 dead (I'll be generous).
8 rapid fire shots (TL), 7 hits, 5 wounds, 2 dead.

Blades by third turn.

I always rounded up to favour shooter.

Well, 8 Tomb Blades should be 144 pts, by my count, so it's not as bad.

I think the issue is that, in our hypothetical arena, the EJB could hang out at 35", shoot, then scoot back 7 inches in the Assault phase. At that time, you're out of range to retaliate, barring going flat out. So the EJB get a second round of fire at you, and can they then scoot out of LOS again? If so, they'd have two unanswered rounds of shooting before the TB could hit them, at which point they can move 48". So the TB's have probably lost models before the back and forth starts, if you know what I mean?

In a "very good for EJB" scenario, the EJB get 40 shots at the Blades before they can return fire. That should amount to 4 dead TB, leaving 4. Those for might be at rapid range, hard to qualify distance before the LOS hopping runs out. But assuming rapid range, 8 shots should amount to one downed EJB. 4 return fire, 16 shots leading to 1 or 2 dead Necros. Assuming only 1, that leaves 3 to Rapid Fire back, felling another one. 3 EJB return fire, snagging one... Leaving 2 Necros to 3 EJB... they pretty much tag each other back and forth for one model leaving one or two EJB left over at the end.

This assumes no effort by the EJB to move 48" away to attempt to reinitiate a jump-shoot-jump scenario where they wind up out of LOS for return fire.

If the Necros go first, they'd likely get a long range round of fire before the EJB can move, if they start 36" apart... not that it is necessarily a reasonable assumption on a 4x 6 board. Depending on deployment zone [H+A or VS] you could easily be outside that.

In either case, I think a slim margin of victory goes to whomever gets to shoot first, and the Eldar victory requires at least one turn where they aren't shot back, thanks to being out of LOS.


I'm looking at "best units" and the Land Raider doesn't qualify. In all fairness, it's a valid option to fight them, but I've never seen more than one LR in a "competitive" build.

As for that Thanatar, I've never heard of it, but I'm not a Forgeworld guy. My assumptions for 2 hits, while spread out, was based on scoring a "hit" on the die, not an every turn thing. But I can understand that at such high Toughness, and with that 2+ save, all the ScLa in the world aren't going to do much to scratch it. Cool Beans. Which book is that in?

Maulerfiend. AV12 with 4 hull points and built in 5++ save and IWND. Moves scary fast to catch up. Should easily live through a single unit of jet bike firing for 4 turns. By that time it should have them cornered enough to engage in HTH and then its all over.

Whats funny is in my mind I think my normal Emperors Children army with two Heldrakes and two maulerfiends in it has a pretty good chance against these biker armies. There are lots of S6 AP3 flamer templates running around on pretty fast platforms, and if the bikers decide to get close to avoid the heldrakes they will practically be hand fed into the maulerfiends.

See... the thing is that once you have them cornered, the JB can move + flat out 48"... which should buy them some more turns before needing to do so again.

I don't believe that in a pit-fight, close combat will work to deal with them unless they can move RIDICULOUSLY fast to keep up. I'm not sure how many points that Maulerfiend is, but it's probably taking a couple of HP each turn from an equal points of EJB? 3 turns should finish it off, assuming one IWND roll is passed in those turns?

 greatbigtree wrote:
See... the thing is that once you have them cornered, the JB can move + flat out 48"... which should buy them some more turns before needing to do so again.

I don't believe that in a pit-fight, close combat will work to deal with them unless they can move RIDICULOUSLY fast to keep up.

A pit fight in my mind means smaller tables. 4x4 at the max. In which case a beast units who ignores terrain can potentially get to anywhere so long as they start in the middle of the table. Things become much harder if the table is 6x8 of course.

Thunderfire Cannon? 5 man unit does 1.4 wounds from the armour save.

TFC does 1.3 when hitting 5, more when getting direct hits. 60" range to boot so if you can't shoot them, they can't shoot you - and you can deploy in the corner to ensure you stay alive.

Not even best SM unit...

 Jayden63 wrote:

 greatbigtree wrote:
See... the thing is that once you have them cornered, the JB can move + flat out 48"... which should buy them some more turns before needing to do so again.

I don't believe that in a pit-fight, close combat will work to deal with them unless they can move RIDICULOUSLY fast to keep up.

A pit fight in my mind means smaller tables. 4x4 at the max. In which case a beast units who ignores terrain can potentially get to anywhere so long as they start in the middle of the table. Things become much harder if the table is 6x8 of course.

Fair enough, I was assuming a standard 6x4 table, not that I'd mentioned that.


As to the TFC, closest EJB would be 4 at 108 points.

The TFC gets 4 shots per turn, needing a "hit" with it's small blast to hit a single model, so assuming good rolls, you get two hits. Surface Detonation gets you 1 wound, usually saved on armour. With one hit, you're probably not doing a single wound in a turn. If the JB need to, they Turbo boost forward. Doing a repeat attack, you probably get one Bike between the two rounds of fire.

3 EJB get 12 shots, should put one wound on the Techmarine gunner, if he's hit [game over]. If the hits resolve on the gun, that's usually one wound upon the gun.

So we can then resolve another round of fire on the bikes, with a lucky result getting one more bike. We can assume that they'll get two more rounds of fire before another bike is lost, so 8 more shots should tag the gunner or pull the last wound off the cannon. Either way, the bikes should win.


And the idea is to pick the "Best" unit you have, to compare them. "Best" units usually have a weakness that EJB can exploit, such as Death Company's inability to catch them, or an IG Wyvern being wrecked in a single round of fire if 3 can get to it's side arc first. If you have two Wyverns, the equal points of EJB will kill them for sure. I think Helldrakes could take them out, but that's about it from the Chaos 'Dex. Maulerfiend [not a "best" unit] could do it on a small enough board, I guess?

So the Best unit in SM would probably be Smashface, no? Again, as a fast melee unit, you can either avoid him and blast him to bits, or you can't and he catches you. Arguments for other units are welcome, of course.

My unit: DE Reaver Jetbikes

Have skilled rider, hit and run, PFP, and combat drugs.
Are just as mobile as Windriders

[131 points]

6x Reavers
2x Heat Lance
1x Cluster Caltrops

[135 points]

5x Windrider jetbikes
5x Scatter Lasers

The Result: TIE

Both units are equally matched in terms of mobility, with the Windriders unable to get in range, and the Reavers unable to close to CC.

Of course, Reavers win under ideal circumstances (Turn 6 PFP, T5 combat drugs)

4-in-1!

- Riptide with HBC and ECPA: 210p ~ 7 EJB
Rippy does 1.296 unsaved Wounds (no Jink) if normal shooting; nova-ing, 2.722 (no Jink)/2.917 (Jinking).
EJB do 1.556 uW if no Jink (not worth to Jink vs Riptide).
In 4 turns, a Riptide will kill 5 EJB if not nova-ing; if it goes nova, it'll kill them by turn 3 (jinking or not). In 4 turns, EJB kill the Riptide. So, better nova vs those bastards!

Result: EJB win if not nova, Riptide victory if nova.

Didn't do IA Riptide because I can't mathammer the blast; but the normal 3 shots aren't good enough (HBC is better)

- 3x Crisis with Missile Pods: 156p ~ 5 EJB

Crisis do 1.667 uW.
EJB do 3.704 uW.
In 2 turns, the EJB kill the Crisis Team. For their part, the Crisis won't be able to kill 4 of the bikes.

Result: EJB win.

- 3x Crisis with Plasma Rifles: 156p ~ 5 EJB

Crisis do 5 uW (no Jink), 2,5 uW (Jink) (Rapid Fire range)
EJB do 3.704 uW (no Jink), 0.926 (Jink).
As it is unlikely that the Eldar player wouldn't Jink its EJB here, the Plasma guys have way greater chance to win. In 2 turns the EJB will be dead, even Jinking. The problem is that they'll run away the moment the plasma Crisis finish their shooting...

Result: Crisis win!

- 3x Crisis with Burst Cannons: 126p ~ 4 EJB

Crisis do 2.667 uW.
EJB do 3.704 uW.
Technically a tie - both will be dead by turn 2.

Result: Tie.


In ideal conditions (BS5, no cover for plasma), Burst Cannons and Plasma Rifles are miles ahead of Missile Pods. Which means Fire Warriors would be a good bet against EJB (both will force Ld after a shooting phase, but FWs have the bodies to finish the EJBs - 12 Fire Warriors cost exactly the same of 4 EJBs)

Don't the Jetbikes win against the Crisis Suits w/Plasma Rifles due to the Rifle's 24" range? The Jetbikes can just keep getting into 36" range, shoot, then jump back any distance and be 100% protected. Not sure of Burst Cannon's range.

 Yarium wrote:
Don't the Jetbikes win against the Crisis Suits w/Plasma Rifles due to the Rifle's 24" range? The Jetbikes can just keep getting into 36" range, shoot, then jump back any distance and be 100% protected. Not sure of Burst Cannon's range.

Burst Cannon's 18". But I'm thinking about DS - if they start on table EJB win, of course.

I'm not sure any single ork unit stands a chance, but the combination of a Stompa and several repair units inside it might do. It's over a thousand points, but it has a terrifying amount of firepower and survivability.

In one turn you can get up to five S 8 AP 3 large blasts from Supa Rokkits, up to 36 shots with the S 7 AP 3 Supa Gatler, various small arms and a Massive Blast from the Deff Kannon. That's about 250 square inches of table getting hit by stuff which kills jetbikes pretty easily as well as half-a-dozen or so hits from the SG. With fairly average luck and well-spaced jetbikes, I think you could force around twenty of them to be making a cover save or die in one round.

Usually, I'd say to unleash that as soon as possible, but in a fight against jetbikes are probably better off waiting until they get behind you, because they can't damage the stompa from the front. Let them suck up Deff Kannon, Big Shoota and Deffgun shots for a while.

Once they get behind you, they need to chew through 12 Hull Points at AV 12 with a 5+ Invulnerable to stop you. That's about eighty scatter lasers worth of shooting. i.e. twice as many jetbikes as the Stompa+passengers cost. With two Big Meks and 11 normal meks inside, plus Grot Riggers and a few upgrades, you can expect the Stompa to regenerate five Hull Points a turn. That means that it's effectively unkillable by an equal value of Jetbikes.

 TheNewBlood wrote:
My unit: DE Reaver Jetbikes

Have skilled rider, hit and run, PFP, and combat drugs.
Are just as mobile as Windriders

[131 points]

6x Reavers
2x Heat Lance
1x Cluster Caltrops

[135 points]

5x Windrider jetbikes
5x Scatter Lasers

The Result: TIE

Both units are equally matched in terms of mobility, with the Windriders unable to get in range, and the Reavers unable to close to CC.

Of course, Reavers win under ideal circumstances (Turn 6 PFP, T5 combat drugs)

May I ask why you're using the heat lances? I'd go with 2 Cluster Caltrops and skip the special weapon to Jink every turn.

 greatbigtree wrote:

Ffyllotek wrote:
Tomblades as part of a decurion. Seven tomblades (154 pts) vs your five jetbikes (135 pts). (Appreciate I'm over. So I skimmed elsewhere).

Jetbikes first: those 16 S6 ap- hits results in 12 wounds, 4 unsaved wounds 2 dead.
Tomblades now in rapid fire range 10 shots (TL) 9 hits, 7 wounds, 3ish dead.

2 bikes vs 5 blades.

8 shots, 6 hits, 4 wounds, 1 unsaved wound, 1 dead (I'll be generous).
8 rapid fire shots (TL), 7 hits, 5 wounds, 2 dead.

Blades by third turn.

I always rounded up to favour shooter.

Well, 8 Tomb Blades should be 144 pts, by my count, so it's not as bad.

Allow me to clarify. I went with shield vanes and nebuscopes - actually the latter are irrevelent given the Jetbikes have 3+ save anyway. So it's 20pts a tombblade for the 3+ save.

It should be 7 blades at 140. BS4 T5 3+/4+++ TL S5 AP4 Rapid Fire Gauss Blasters.

How about chaos rapier battery?

3 Dunecrawlers with Icarus arrays 405
vs
15 Jetbikes

If the dunecrawlers go first
8 shots, 1 of which armor. 6 of them hit on BS 7 first turn, the other 2 at BS10(twinlinked BS7)
7 jetbikes dead, but perhaps less if they are in 3+ units.

If the Jetbikes go first.
60 shots, 40 hit, 6.66 glance, 4++ means one crawler down.



If the jetbikes are 5 units of 3, they will win. If they are 2 units of 8 and 7 they will lose. Inbetween it depends on who goes first.

6 flamers of tzeench ds in and toast them all 138pts jump troops 2 wounds each invuns with reroll 1's and not that bad in cc as well.
or 2 exhaulted flamers 100pts torrent s5 ap3 each though getting into range would be almost impossible in a pitfight setting.

Exergy wrote:3 Dunecrawlers with Icarus arrays 405
vs
15 Jetbikes

If the dunecrawlers go first
8 shots, 1 of which armor. 6 of them hit on BS 7 first turn, the other 2 at BS10(twinlinked BS7)
7 jetbikes dead, but perhaps less if they are in 3+ units.

If the Jetbikes go first.
60 shots, 40 hit, 6.66 glance, 4++ means one crawler down.



If the jetbikes are 5 units of 3, they will win. If they are 2 units of 8 and 7 they will lose. Inbetween it depends on who goes first.

Icarus weapons are all Skyfire - they'll hit the bikes at BS1.

Yarium wrote:Don't the Jetbikes win against the Crisis Suits w/Plasma Rifles due to the Rifle's 24" range? The Jetbikes can just keep getting into 36" range, shoot, then jump back any distance and be 100% protected. Not sure of Burst Cannon's range.

Thought about another idea: Ion Cannon Hammerhead (no blast) (EJB firing at its sides)

- Base: more or less 4 EJB
Hammerhead does 1.667 uW (no Jink) or 0.833 (Jink)
EJB do 1.778 glances in open, 1.185 if 5+ (cover) or 0.889 if 4+ (ruins' cover)
If the EJB Jink, the nembers drop to 0.444/0.296/0.222

Terrible prospect for the bikes to Jink (they'll destroy the Hammerhead in 7 turns, at best), so we can assume they won't. Hammerhead kills the entire team in 3 turns, but the EJB can destroy it faster, with some luck.

- Longstrike: more or less 6 jetbikes
2.083 uW (no Jink) or 1.042 uW (Jink)

Now the HH kills 2 per turn, while the EJB, with some luck, can destroy it in 1 turn (2.667 glances). If the EJB jink, they'll destroy the HH in 5 turns, but in the meantime will be killed slowly. Better not jink as well. If the HH goes first, the EJB won't have any chance.

Result: HH victory, more for forcing the EJB to Jink if the Eldar player values them too much.

If we exchange the Ion Cannon for the Plasma Cannons from IA3, the results are even better for the Hammerhead, with the problem of moving (one will fire Snap Shots) for the lower range (48").

If we count the SMS in the equation (with Ion Cannon)...
BS4: +0.790 uW, for a total of 2.457 (no Jink)/1.623 (Jink)
Longstrike: +0.864 uW, for a total of 2,873/1,832

Don't let the Hammerhead come close to 30" from your bikes.