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So, the Minotaurs are attack dogs of the imperium, but they don't know who their founders are. Some things I have read said they are chimeric, meaning multiple geneseed donors, but I assert that they have one founder, World Eaters, or more specifically War Hounds. Much like the widely conjectured Blood Ravens that are said to be Thousand Son descendants, I think the same is true of the Minotaurs. It would explain their berserker nature, single minded proclivities and why the High Lords would; want to keep their founding so Hush Hush. They were made out of the Gene stock of the old War Hounds legion, stored pre-corruption. How likely is this? Plausible or way of base?, and please explain your response if you disagree.

maybe, but geneseed can be pretty varied in chapter outlook anyway. consider the space sharks are descendants of the raven guard. they could be an ultramarines sucessor for all we know. their orgins being kept secrect could simply be to try to ensure they are not likely to develop loyalties aside from the high lords. For example, if it was known that they where dark angels sucessors the DAs could try to bring em into all that unforgiven nonsense. that would hurt their ability to do what they're wanted for

Way I read it, everyone from the 21st was drawn from Traitor stock.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Way I read it, everyone from the 21st was drawn from Traitor stock.

Not all of them:

Lamenters are a Blood Angel successor.

Some Imperial Scholars believe the Black Dragons to be a Salamander successor.

The Fire Hawks claim to be an Ultramarine successor (they were confirmed to be such in Codex Ultramarines, but IAvol9 says it's unconfirmed).

There's rumours around for most of the Chaos Legions having a loyalist successor, most of which is just based on similarities in combat doctrine.

World Eaters - Minotaurs
Thousand Sons - Blood Ravens
Emperor's Children - Red Scorpions
Night Lords - Space Sharks

Most of these can be debated until we reach the 21st founding ourselves, but they are nice little hooks to keep you wondering, like the missing Primarchs, what happens when the Emperor dies, is Guilliman healing? It's something 40k does well.

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
There's rumours around for most of the Chaos Legions having a loyalist successor, most of which is just based on similarities in combat doctrine.

World Eaters - Minotaurs
Thousand Sons - Blood Ravens
Emperor's Children - Red Scorpions
Night Lords - Space Sharks

Most of these can be debated until we reach the 21st founding ourselves, but they are nice little hooks to keep you wondering, like the missing Primarchs, what happens when the Emperor dies, is Guilliman healing? It's something 40k does well.

I'ver never heard rumors of night lords being space sharks. the leading theory is Raven Guard

It is possible, I just don't think the IoM would take any chances with creating a new chapter from tainted Gene stock. There are enough Chapters that go renegade using ones deemed to be pure.

The Space Marine Codex, amongst other sources, state that it was flaws in the Gene seed that aided the corruption. Also imagine the repercussions if the truth was ever found out.

From IA: Codex Astartes

The Horus Heresy had revealed weaknesses in the geneseed of several Space Marine Legions which had been exaggerated by the accelerated zygote harvesting techniques needed to keep the huge Space Marine Legions up to strength. The powers of Chaos exploited this growing physical and mental corruption to turn Horus’s troops against the Emperor. The prime objective of the new Codex Astartes was to recognise and expunge these weaknesses.

It would be interesting if it ever gets confirmed. I doubt it will, buy I think it'd be pretty cool to see the Imperium having a few experimental chapters that hail from traitor legions.

And to add to the list of potential traitor legion based chapters.

Iron Warriors = Silver Skulls

 Pilau Rice wrote:
It is possible, I just don't think the IoM would take any chances with creating a new chapter from tainted Gene stock. There are enough Chapters that go renegade using ones deemed to be pure.

The Space Marine Codex, amongst other sources, state that it was flaws in the Gene seed that aided the corruption. Also imagine the repercussions if the truth was ever found out.

From IA: Codex Astartes

The Horus Heresy had revealed weaknesses in the geneseed of several Space Marine Legions which had been exaggerated by the accelerated zygote harvesting techniques needed to keep the huge Space Marine Legions up to strength. The powers of Chaos exploited this growing physical and mental corruption to turn Horus’s troops against the Emperor. The prime objective of the new Codex Astartes was to recognise and expunge these weaknesses.

You say this like the people in the Imperium of Man have things like intelligence and common sense in abundance. Also Tech Priests the ones who take care of gene seed tithes have done plenty of stupider things in the name of SCIENCE and "RE"discovery. Hell they have done tons of stupid things simply because they can or because they want to. I wouldn't put this beneath them.

 Yaavaragefinkinman wrote:


You say this like the people in the Imperium of Man have things like intelligence and common sense in abundance. Also Tech Priests the ones who take care of gene seed tithes have done plenty of stupider things in the name of SCIENCE and "RE"discovery. Hell they have done tons of stupid things simply because they can or because they want to. I wouldn't put this beneath them.

Which is why I said it is possible and gave my opinion on the matter. But I would disagree with you as the Heresy was quite a big deal and things to do with the great betrayal are probably still taken very seriously.

The traitor Gene - seed is locked away in a stasis vault on Terra so I doubt it was done using that.

IA: Codex Astartes

On Earth the Adeptus Terra created genetic repositories to produce and store Space Marine gene-seed ... The gene-seed of the Traitor Legions was placed under a time-locked stasis seal, although at the time many believed these dangerous gene stocks should be destroyed. By taking direct control of the genetic stocks, the Adepts on Earth could ultimately control the Space Marines.

But, if you want a way for it to happen then the meddling by Fabius in the 21st Founding is most likely how. He probably had loads of leftovers from his dabbling during the Heresy.

http://redelf.narod.ru/w40k/ia/w40k_ia_cf.html

 GKTiberius wrote:
So, the Minotaurs are attack dogs of the imperium, but they don't know who their founders are. Some things I have read said they are chimeric, meaning multiple geneseed donors, but I assert that they have one founder, World Eaters, or more specifically War Hounds. Much like the widely conjectured Blood Ravens that are said to be Thousand Son descendants, I think the same is true of the Minotaurs. It would explain their berserker nature, single minded proclivities and why the High Lords would; want to keep their founding so Hush Hush. They were made out of the Gene stock of the old War Hounds legion, stored pre-corruption. How likely is this? Plausible or way of base?, and please explain your response if you disagree.

The attack dogs huh? Sounds space wolvie. Maybe the only surviving additional founding?

jakejackjake wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
So, the Minotaurs are attack dogs of the imperium, but they don't know who their founders are. Some things I have read said they are chimeric, meaning multiple geneseed donors, but I assert that they have one founder, World Eaters, or more specifically War Hounds. Much like the widely conjectured Blood Ravens that are said to be Thousand Son descendants, I think the same is true of the Minotaurs. It would explain their berserker nature, single minded proclivities and why the High Lords would; want to keep their founding so Hush Hush. They were made out of the Gene stock of the old War Hounds legion, stored pre-corruption. How likely is this? Plausible or way of base?, and please explain your response if you disagree.

The attack dogs huh? Sounds space wolvie. Maybe the only surviving additional founding?

No they are specifically not Space wolf in origin. They are used in the same way as the space wolf legion, is but the HLOT see the wolves as too impetuous and don't take authority well. So the Minotaurs replaced them in that they are vicious, but really loyal to the HLOT and follow order unquestioningly. I brought the original question up because it seems to fit. Much the same way Blood Ravens are potentially descended from Thousand sons.

My theory would be that the HLOT needed an Astartes force to act with their authority. they needed a fearsome and brutal force that wont show mercy. SO they start with War Hound (Pre angron world eaters) Gene Seed for the aggression. They modify the gene seed to make the recipient extremely susceptible to hypo indoctrination and digital memory implantation (both cited parts of the Minotaur MO) and end them out. They keep incredibility close tabs on the chapter and the chapter master and officer corps are fanatically loyal to the HLOT, because they are basically what created them.

Some things/clarifications:

Sons of Antagonis, a 21st founding chapter, are speculated to be Death Guard successors IN-UNIVERSE.

(this is the only time in the fluff a loyalist chapter was outright speculated to be a traitor chapter in-universe. Of course, out-of-universe, there's lots of possibilities for traitor chapters, but Sons of Antagonis show that in-universe, speculation of the possibility exists as well)

Therefore, any argument, "The Imperium would never use traitor gene stock ever!" is mostly (IMHO) debunked by the simple fact that, in-universe, various people think the Imperium may have used traitor gene stock. They probably wouldn't speculate this if it was impossible, after all.

Space Sharks are most likely Raven Guard. One of the IA Horus Heresy books (Massacre, I think) has art of the Space Shark helmet among them and a faction of violent Raven Guard sent out to guard the fringes of the galaxy, which is almost positively what became the Space Sharks. In addition, in-universe, Space Shark gene seed (usually taken from Deathwatch stocks) has been analyzed and has several Raven Guard traits in it. I'd like to think that counts for something.

Back on topic, Minotaurs too have had their gene seed analyzed and described as "chimeric", so it's likely that's whta it actually is (again, sure, they could be wrong, but you'd think a DNA analysis would at least have a reasonably good chance of having some truth to it). Of course, that doesn't rule out traitor stock (World Eaters, obviously) being part of it. If anything, it makes it even more likely, I think.

But yea, there was probably some lobotomization or brain washing or something going on in between the old Minotaurs and the new ones (and as stated in the fluff, there's always a chance the two aren't even one and the same, but the fact that both are fanatic beserkers implies to me otherwise)

TiamatRoar wrote:
Some things/clarifications:

Sons of Antagonis, a 21st founding chapter, are speculated to be Death Guard successors IN-UNIVERSE.

(this is the only time in the fluff a loyalist chapter was outright speculated to be a traitor chapter in-universe. Of course, out-of-universe, there's lots of possibilities for traitor chapters, but Sons of Antagonis show that in-universe, speculation of the possibility exists as well)

Therefore, any argument, "The Imperium would never use traitor gene stock ever!" is mostly (IMHO) debunked by the simple fact that, in-universe, various people think the Imperium may have used traitor gene stock. They probably wouldn't speculate this if it was impossible, after all.

Space Sharks are most likely Raven Guard. One of the IA Horus Heresy books (Massacre, I think) has art of the Space Shark helmet among them and a faction of violent Raven Guard sent out to guard the fringes of the galaxy, which is almost positively what became the Space Sharks. In addition, in-universe, Space Shark gene seed (usually taken from Deathwatch stocks) has been analyzed and has several Raven Guard traits in it. I'd like to think that counts for something.

Back on topic, Minotaurs too have had their gene seed analyzed and described as "chimeric", so it's likely that's whta it actually is (again, sure, they could be wrong, but you'd think a DNA analysis would at least have a reasonably good chance of having some truth to it). Of course, that doesn't rule out traitor stock (World Eaters, obviously) being part of it. If anything, it makes it even more likely, I think.

But yea, there was probably some lobotomization or brain washing or something going on in between the old Minotaurs and the new ones (and as stated in the fluff, there's always a chance the two aren't even one and the same, but the fact that both are fanatic beserkers implies to me otherwise)

Since when did the Minotaurs let their Gene-Seed be scanned?
They have always refused and insist speaking with the big E
Also Asterion Moloc>Every other chapter master

I bet Space Wolves, just as tough as world eaters minus butcher's nails, and if you think about a minotaur is just a werewolf with horns.

TiamatRoar wrote:
Some things/clarifications:

Sons of Antagonis, a 21st founding chapter, are speculated to be Death Guard successors IN-UNIVERSE.

(this is the only time in the fluff a loyalist chapter was outright speculated to be a traitor chapter in-universe. Of course, out-of-universe, there's lots of possibilities for traitor chapters, but Sons of Antagonis show that in-universe, speculation of the possibility exists as well)

Therefore, any argument, "The Imperium would never use traitor gene stock ever!" is mostly (IMHO) debunked by the simple fact that, in-universe, various people think the Imperium may have used traitor gene stock. They probably wouldn't speculate this if it was impossible, after all.

Space Sharks are most likely Raven Guard. One of the IA Horus Heresy books (Massacre, I think) has art of the Space Shark helmet among them and a faction of violent Raven Guard sent out to guard the fringes of the galaxy, which is almost positively what became the Space Sharks. In addition, in-universe, Space Shark gene seed (usually taken from Deathwatch stocks) has been analyzed and has several Raven Guard traits in it. I'd like to think that counts for something.

Back on topic, Minotaurs too have had their gene seed analyzed and described as "chimeric", so it's likely that's whta it actually is (again, sure, they could be wrong, but you'd think a DNA analysis would at least have a reasonably good chance of having some truth to it). Of course, that doesn't rule out traitor stock (World Eaters, obviously) being part of it. If anything, it makes it even more likely, I think.

But yea, there was probably some lobotomization or brain washing or something going on in between the old Minotaurs and the new ones (and as stated in the fluff, there's always a chance the two aren't even one and the same, but the fact that both are fanatic beserkers implies to me otherwise)

I guess you mean the Sons of Anteus and if you are referring to the fluff from the 21st Founding IA article then it says

Augmented Skeleton: During the inception of the Sons of Antaeus Chapter, its creators extensively modified the gene-seed in order to create Space Marines of exceptional durability and toughness. How they achieved this is unknown, whether their skeletal structure was enhanced with some artificial substance, or whether a more esoteric procedure was used. Less sympathetic observers point out that the chapter appears every bit as resilient as the Death Guard Traitor Legion.

So take it as you will. Personally I take it that they would be comparing the 40k variety of Death Guard as how would a Space Marine in 40k know how tough a 30k Death Guard Legionnaire is. Seeing as how none would have been alive at that time apart from reading about them or facing one of the 40k ones on the battle field.

I don't think that the HLoT or any other arm responsible for creating new Chapters would actively use Gene - Seed from Traitor stock. But it doesn't mean that there haven't been ones created. A Chapter of Space Marines isn't a resource that cannot be wasted. If the HLoT established that the meddling of Fabius had created a Chapter with, in the case of the Minotaurs, World Eaters Gene - Seed then they would want to monitor them and keep them on a tight leash as possible.

There are plenty of Chapters out there who aren't created from Traitor Stock that also aren't able to trace their lineage back to their parent Chapter for one reason or another.

commander dante wrote:
Since when did the Minotaurs let their Gene-Seed be scanned?
They have always refused and insist speaking with the big E
Also Asterion Moloc>Every other chapter master

I don't know what you're thinking of, but Astartes don't get in to see the Emperor.

 chazz huggins wrote:
I bet Space Wolves, just as tough as world eaters minus butcher's nails, and if you think about a minotaur is just a werewolf with horns.

They lack the defining features of the Space Wolves, they are not of Russ' geneseed.

It has been explicitly stated and shown that on an individual basis World Eaters are much stronger and much much much more savage than Space Wolves are.

The Space Wolves also haven't ended a Chapter since the Great Crusade. Their title as "Emperor's Executioners" is a historic one, not something they've demonstrated any inclination to do in the last ten thousand years.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
There's rumours around for most of the Chaos Legions having a loyalist successor, most of which is just based on similarities in combat doctrine.

World Eaters - Minotaurs
Thousand Sons - Blood Ravens
Emperor's Children - Red Scorpions
Night Lords - Space Sharks

Most of these can be debated until we reach the 21st founding ourselves, but they are nice little hooks to keep you wondering, like the missing Primarchs, what happens when the Emperor dies, is Guilliman healing? It's something 40k does well.

I'ver never heard rumors of night lords being space sharks. the leading theory is Raven Guard

The Night Lords theory predates the most recent fluff, which sets them up as Raven Guard. This is a little weird since the Sharks don't fight with stealth- they inflict Fear (like Night Lords). Mechanically, they're loyalist Night Lords, no matter their origin... and given their habit for slaughtering civilians but looking for weak points with hard-hitting strikes... clearly, they win too much for Corax to have approved.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
There's rumours around for most of the Chaos Legions having a loyalist successor, most of which is just based on similarities in combat doctrine.

World Eaters - Minotaurs
Thousand Sons - Blood Ravens
Emperor's Children - Red Scorpions
Night Lords - Space Sharks

Most of these can be debated until we reach the 21st founding ourselves, but they are nice little hooks to keep you wondering, like the missing Primarchs, what happens when the Emperor dies, is Guilliman healing? It's something 40k does well.

I'ver never heard rumors of night lords being space sharks. the leading theory is Raven Guard

The Night Lords theory predates the most recent fluff, which sets them up as Raven Guard. This is a little weird since the Sharks don't fight with stealth- they inflict Fear (like Night Lords). Mechanically, they're loyalist Night Lords, no matter their origin... and given their habit for slaughtering civilians but looking for weak points with hard-hitting strikes... clearly, they win too much for Corax to have approved.

apparently the inclinations of a chapter can have little to do with geneseed. WHO KNEW?!

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
There's rumours around for most of the Chaos Legions having a loyalist successor, most of which is just based on similarities in combat doctrine.

World Eaters - Minotaurs
Thousand Sons - Blood Ravens
Emperor's Children - Red Scorpions
Night Lords - Space Sharks

Most of these can be debated until we reach the 21st founding ourselves, but they are nice little hooks to keep you wondering, like the missing Primarchs, what happens when the Emperor dies, is Guilliman healing? It's something 40k does well.

I'ver never heard rumors of night lords being space sharks. the leading theory is Raven Guard

The Night Lords theory predates the most recent fluff, which sets them up as Raven Guard. This is a little weird since the Sharks don't fight with stealth- they inflict Fear (like Night Lords). Mechanically, they're loyalist Night Lords, no matter their origin... and given their habit for slaughtering civilians but looking for weak points with hard-hitting strikes... clearly, they win too much for Corax to have approved.

apparently the inclinations of a chapter can have little to do with geneseed. WHO KNEW?!

There aren't many Chapters that are on the same levels of awful as the Night Lords or World Eaters.

It' pretty much just the Sharks and the Marines Malevolent. The Soul Drinkers are close.

The Minotaurs are just mindless toadies.

 EmpNortonII wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 EmpNortonII wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Sir Samuel Buca wrote:
There's rumours around for most of the Chaos Legions having a loyalist successor, most of which is just based on similarities in combat doctrine.

World Eaters - Minotaurs
Thousand Sons - Blood Ravens
Emperor's Children - Red Scorpions
Night Lords - Space Sharks

Most of these can be debated until we reach the 21st founding ourselves, but they are nice little hooks to keep you wondering, like the missing Primarchs, what happens when the Emperor dies, is Guilliman healing? It's something 40k does well.

I'ver never heard rumors of night lords being space sharks. the leading theory is Raven Guard

The Night Lords theory predates the most recent fluff, which sets them up as Raven Guard. This is a little weird since the Sharks don't fight with stealth- they inflict Fear (like Night Lords). Mechanically, they're loyalist Night Lords, no matter their origin... and given their habit for slaughtering civilians but looking for weak points with hard-hitting strikes... clearly, they win too much for Corax to have approved.

apparently the inclinations of a chapter can have little to do with geneseed. WHO KNEW?!

There aren't many Chapters that are on the same levels of awful as the Night Lords or World Eaters.

It' pretty much just the Sharks and the Marines Malevolent. The Soul Drinkers are close.

The Minotaurs are just mindless toadies.

Are you seriously comparing these newbies to the Night Lords and the World Eaters?

In regards to the Carcharodons, if they are the "evilish" Raven Guard that Corax sent away wouldn't that mean they are anything but newbies? Wasn't it during the Heresy? Not sure on the fluff at the moment.

As for the Minotaurs, I wouldn't put it past the HLoT to do something questionable to get an utterly loyal chapter. Worse things have happened in the Grimdarkness of Grimdark.

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
In regards to the Carcharodons, if they are the "evilish" Raven Guard that Corax sent away wouldn't that mean they are anything but newbies? Wasn't it during the Heresy? Not sure on the fluff at the moment.

As for the Minotaurs, I wouldn't put it past the HLoT to do something questionable to get an utterly loyal chapter. Worse things have happened in the Grimdarkness of Grimdark.

Do you seriously think these men are on par with THE WORLD EATERS, the penultimate melee Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine Legion?
Disregarding plot armor of course.

Only Legion to hold a candle to the World Eaters in melee were either the Blood Angels or the Iron Warriors.

I don't think anyone is saying they are "on par" with anyone, melee-wise. They are comparing the "awefulness", i.e. how ruthless and team-killy they are.

And as far as how hands down scary a legion is, No one beats the Night Lords. Though the fact that the Carachodons are utterly silent has been called 'unnearving' by thier fellow marines.

 RaptorusRex wrote:
Way I read it, everyone from the 21st was drawn from Traitor stock.

Unlikely, as the 21st Founding was also one of the largest.

If they were going to experiment with traitor geneseed, they aren't going to do it in bulk. Remember, it took them like 6000 years to work up the courage just to try, and it failed so hard, they never did again.


If anything, it's significantly more likely that none of the 21st Founding Chapters are traitor geneseed.


I mean, a lot of these theories come from people reading too far into tropes. I mean, the Flesh Eaters/Tearers are nearly as bad as the World Eaters, and they come from Blood Angels stock. Nothing about the Minotaurs suggests they would be World Eaters by that comparison, for example. Being savage is just something that happens with some Space Marine Chapters. It's probably why the AdMech pretty much only uses Ultramarines geneseed and makes all the new ones Codex Chapters.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Yaavaragefinkinman wrote:You say this like the people in the Imperium of Man have things like intelligence and common sense in abundance. Also Tech Priests the ones who take care of gene seed tithes have done plenty of stupider things in the name of SCIENCE and "RE"discovery. Hell they have done tons of stupid things simply because they can or because they want to. I wouldn't put this beneath them.

It took them over 6,000 years to work up the courage to experiment with geneseed in the 21st Founding, and it failed so hard they never did it again.

I think you're vastly overestimating the readiness the AdMech has for fooling around with the Emperor's own personal handiwork. Space Marines are one step short of divinity to them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khonsu wrote:

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
In regards to the Carcharodons, if they are the "evilish" Raven Guard that Corax sent away wouldn't that mean they are anything but newbies? Wasn't it during the Heresy? Not sure on the fluff at the moment.

As for the Minotaurs, I wouldn't put it past the HLoT to do something questionable to get an utterly loyal chapter. Worse things have happened in the Grimdarkness of Grimdark.

Do you seriously think these men are on par with THE WORLD EATERS, the penultimate melee Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine Legion?
Disregarding plot armor of course.

Only Legion to hold a candle to the World Eaters in melee were either the Blood Angels or the Iron Warriors.

The World Eaters just preferred melee combat. Nobody ever said they were really good at it. If anything, the Nails would have made them unstable and prone to poor decision-making. They were also noted for sustaining the highest casualties of all the Legions due to their tactics.

The World Eaters strategy for combat was "Be a Space Marine. Hit them hard. With an axe." That doesn't really infer any level of skill, simply a mindset.

 GKTiberius wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:

 GKTiberius wrote:
So, the Minotaurs are attack dogs of the imperium, but they don't know who their founders are. Some things I have read said they are chimeric, meaning multiple geneseed donors, but I assert that they have one founder, World Eaters, or more specifically War Hounds. Much like the widely conjectured Blood Ravens that are said to be Thousand Son descendants, I think the same is true of the Minotaurs. It would explain their berserker nature, single minded proclivities and why the High Lords would; want to keep their founding so Hush Hush. They were made out of the Gene stock of the old War Hounds legion, stored pre-corruption. How likely is this? Plausible or way of base?, and please explain your response if you disagree.

The attack dogs huh? Sounds space wolvie. Maybe the only surviving additional founding?

No they are specifically not Space wolf in origin. They are used in the same way as the space wolf legion, is but the HLOT see the wolves as too impetuous and don't take authority well. So the Minotaurs replaced them in that they are vicious, but really loyal to the HLOT and follow order unquestioningly. I brought the original question up because it seems to fit. Much the same way Blood Ravens are potentially descended from Thousand sons.

My theory would be that the HLOT needed an Astartes force to act with their authority. they needed a fearsome and brutal force that wont show mercy. SO they start with War Hound (Pre angron world eaters) Gene Seed for the aggression. They modify the gene seed to make the recipient extremely susceptible to hypo indoctrination and digital memory implantation (both cited parts of the Minotaur MO) and end them out. They keep incredibility close tabs on the chapter and the chapter master and officer corps are fanatically loyal to the HLOT, because they are basically what created them.

Source on them specifically not being of the wolves? The thing is there are literally no hints at your theory at all. Them being aggressive is like every single chapter in the right situation.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Khonsu wrote:
It has been explicitly stated and shown that on an individual basis World Eaters are much stronger and much much much more savage than Space Wolves are.

Fluff sources where it isn't just individual marines or the world eaters are chaos fueled? Astartes chapters aren't usually stronger on a whole than others

jakejackjake wrote:Source on them specifically not being of the wolves? The thing is there are literally no hints at your theory at all. Them being aggressive is like every single chapter in the right situation.

Technically, the Space Wolf fluff says they have no successors.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

jakejackjake wrote:Source on them specifically not being of the wolves? The thing is there are literally no hints at your theory at all. Them being aggressive is like every single chapter in the right situation.

Technically, the Space Wolf fluff says they have no successors.

Yes, but if it's supposed to be a secret that would mean nothing.