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New FW vindicator with twin-linked str9 ap1 lascannon. If it stays still it shoots twice. Can over charge the weapon for 3 shots, roll a d6 and on a 1 lose a hull point. 130 points and comparable with all marine chapters. seems very attractive. Thoughts? Is this a Doomsday Ark killer?

It seems really strong, but suffers from a few big weaknesses.

1. Mech is not what it was in 5th edition. 2 editions ago when mech reigned supreme, this vehicle would have wrecked house. Now, with the decline of wave serpent armies, and with most vehicles being either drop pods (which you dont want to shoot at) and knights with their 4++ ion shield, you dont have a lot of good targets.

2. Its fragile. Side armor 11 means anything mobile enough to get out of its front arc will probably kill it in a turn or 2. If you try to move away, youre wasting the potential for 2 extra shots.

If you have a ton of mech in your local meta (rhinos, razorbacks, land raiders, battlewagons, etc) go ahead and take it! Itll do you wonders. But otherwise its usefulness is questionable.

Is it tl like other laser destroyers?


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And ordnance?

Tl ordnance 48" range and if stationary can fire 3 shots. Also chaos can take them :-)

I think it's pretty great for 130, but yeah side armour needs protecting.

Woah! That's excellent! FAR better than a tri-las pred! Streets ahead! Where are these rules?

Is it legal in 40k? I thought it was a 30k vehicle.

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

Pretty typical underpointed FW stuff.

I've seen the rules now - http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/New_Stuff/DEIMOS_VINDICATOR_LASER_DESTROYER.html

Definitely allowed in 40k.

Thinking about it though - rapier laser destroyers cost 15pts more, give 3 shots, don't overheat and have far higher durability. But have 36" range and can't move (not that you want to be moving this vindi anyway). I'd say the rapiers are probably the better option point for point.

Ah, those rules are still marked as experimental. They might get toned down between now and the time you field this thing.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Woah! That's excellent! FAR better than a tri-las pred!

And 10p cheaper to boot.

Mavnas wrote:
Ah, those rules are still marked as experimental. They might get toned down between now and the time you field this thing.

I'm not seeing experimental anywhere actually. Those look to be in fact the rules.


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Poly Ranger wrote:


Thinking about it though - rapier laser destroyers cost 15pts more, give 3 shots, don't overheat and have far higher durability. But have 36" range and can't move (not that you want to be moving this vindi anyway). I'd say the rapiers are probably the better option point for point.

Rapier laser destroyers are worse in almost every way. They cost 60 points each, single shot S9 ap2 ordnance 36" range move or fire, so for 3 shots your looking at 180pts with 12" less range and ap2 rather then ap1... I'd take the tank over them any day.

 Drasius wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

Pretty typical underpointed FW stuff.

Oh, please, it's still a medium tank that will itself die to a single melta or lascannon shot. If it manages to survive the first turn it's a minor miracle.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

Pretty typical underpointed FW stuff.

Oh, please, it's still a medium tank that will itself die to a single melta or lascannon shot. If it manages to survive the first turn it's a minor miracle.

There are a lot of codex vehicles, that cost a lot, doesn't do a thing and still die to the same amount of anti tank shots.

And you need to be really lucky to explode something with a single lascannon/melta shot (though you'll shaken/stun with a high chance with a single penetrating hit).

This tank is just all the good thing put together into a single package. BS4 with twin link makes it really hard to miss with it, S9 Ordnance while not a guaranteed glance/penetrating, it's still way better than a lousy lascannon, and it can have 3 shots, so you have the chance to pop a vehicle a turn. I'd really like to see this weapon on a LR hull as an IG player. What we have is a single shot, BS3, non-twin-linked Vanquisher, which can be given a single lascannon. Yay.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

Pretty typical underpointed FW stuff.

Oh, please, it's still a medium tank that will itself die to a single melta or lascannon shot. If it manages to survive the first turn it's a minor miracle.

Except with 48" range, it's more likely to be further back than a regular vindicator and not as vulnerable.

Oops messed up. 3 laser destroyer rapiers are 35pts more. Hmmm more equal now I'd say.

More importantly, three rapiers are ,£90 and this is only £50 :-)

Captyn_Bob wrote:
More importantly, three rapiers are ,£90 and this is only £50 :-)

I converted my 3x rapier batteries for £30 total

I got my 6 from thepuppetswar.eu, took a while to arrive but arrived in good condition. I think it was £46 for the 6 (I didn't getthe tracks - got the stationary bases). They ddefinitely look the part!

Well if your converting , I can stick a laser barrel on my vindicator for free :-)

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well if your converting , I can stick a laser barrel on my vindicator for free :-)

The vindicator it's self is like £40

 Tannhauser42 wrote:

 Drasius wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

Pretty typical underpointed FW stuff.

Oh, please, it's still a medium tank that will itself die to a single melta or lascannon shot. If it manages to survive the first turn it's a minor miracle.

Oh, it's not going to be stealing the slot from a sicaran, don't get me wrong, but compared to a laspred? This thing trumps it pretty hard in every concievable way that matters.

Not to mention that you're just under half odds to pen a land raider every time you fire 3 shots and you're AP1, so a reasonable chance to do something significant too. I'd say 130 points is a bargain for those stats compared to most reasonably priced things in the CSM and various SM books. All but assured kill on medium AV and certain death barring serious dice AIDS on light vehicles.

1 shot has a 9% chance of exploding a land raider. That means it has a 25% chance to explode a landraider when firing 3 shots. That's pretty damn good.

With 3 shots it has a 42% chance of exploding an av13 vehicle.

53% chance of exploding av12.

60% chance of exploding av11.

64% chance of exploding av10.

This does not take into account hull points lost, or any other damage table result.


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Guys guys guys... schism of mars on this!!! Roll 2 dice and pick the highest for ordnance and then reroll them if it's not what you want. I'll have to go into the maths later - but it would make this the SUPREME tank (of any variety) killer.


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1 - (25/36 x 25/36) = a 52% chance for EACH SHOT to pen av14. So taking into account the 8/9 roll to hit, that's a 46% chance to pen.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Oops messed up. 3 laser destroyer rapiers are 35pts more. Hmmm more equal now I'd say.

Rapiers are 60 a pop, how on earth are you getting 35pts? 180-130=50 The rapiers are shorter range and only AP2 as well.


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 CrownAxe wrote:

Captyn_Bob wrote:
Well if your converting , I can stick a laser barrel on my vindicator for free :-)

The vindicator it's self is like £40

They were hella cheap on ebay for a time, I got three of the older chassis for $20 lol

Rapiers in IA:2 are 55pts not 60. Same in IA:13. 40pts for quad bolters, +15 for laser destroyers. I'm pretty sure. I'll check when I get home.


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Also rapiers are definitely ap1. 100% sure on that in both IA:2 and IA:13.

Poly Ranger wrote:
Rapiers in IA:2 are 55pts not 60. Same in IA:13. 40pts for quad bolters, +15 for laser destroyers. I'm pretty sure. I'll check when I get home.


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Also rapiers are definitely ap1. 100% sure on that in both IA:2 and IA:13.

OK that makes them actually worth taking, I don't own IA:2 and was using this http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/s/Space_Marine_Rapier.pdf

Yeah, the rules for the laser destroyer have finally settled at AP1. Seeing as they are also AP2 in the HH books.

 welshhoppo wrote:
Yeah, the rules for the laser destroyer have finally settled at AP1. Seeing as they are also AP2 in the HH books.

I don't know what you mean here.

 Red Corsair wrote:

 welshhoppo wrote:
Yeah, the rules for the laser destroyer have finally settled at AP1. Seeing as they are also AP2 in the HH books.

I don't know what you mean here.

They kept changing the AP of the laser destroyer from book to book, but they have kept it as being AP1 in the last few I:A books.

 Drasius wrote:
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/D/Deimos_Vindicator_Laser_Destroyer.pdf

Pretty typical underpointed FW stuff.

Why is it cheaper than a las pred?
Are they pretending that AP1, ordnance and having the 2nd and 3rd shot twin-linked is honestly cheaper than the ability to move 6" and snap fire 2 lascannon shots?


What is really stupid:
If you're stationary, the Vin Laser Destoryer is better than a predator.
If you move, the Vin Las Destroyer still is better. Snap firing 2 extra shots isn't nearly as good as ordnance and AP1 on the main shot.

This is why I don't like forge world. A lot of it Invalidates codex choices.


-Matt

GW doesn't know how to balance their units or cost them. FW does.

That's what the this is cheaper then a las pred. Because the lad pred was overcosted in the first place.