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So I've very frequently thought on how the races of 40k get around the great expanse of the galaxy (it IS kinda big). This thought usually is considered when devising background information on armies, such as the cruiser that halls some orks around. Being the OSD detail freak I am, this usually moves on to me figuring out the details on how the cruiser came about, who flies the thing, and terms and conditions between crew and passengers. For some armies, this is fairly easy. IG get hauled around and dropped off, Space Marines have their own fleets, Eldar/Dark Eldar have the webway, and so on. That being said, there is one type of faction I struggle to figure out; Small Scale groups, specifically of CSM/renegades in this condition. Now warp travel isn't very forgiving on a small scale, with most ships being several kilometers long and requiring thousands if not more bodies to make it move.
To get very specific, the idea i'm working around is some CSM's that have separated themselves from the rest in the Eye of Terror as a small band going around simply trying to make it by (all in all between 5-10 marines). They don't want to get absorbed into a larger warband or legion and prefer to go as they please. That being said, how exactly would they get about? As Space Marines of any caliber, it is understandable they could rouse up a fair number of zealots looking for an escape from the imperium, but it is unlikely they could manageto get an entire vessel, even of frigate size, up and running.

So, my actual question would be more along the lines of,
-Is their such thing as a warp-travel capable ship that could be crewed by a body count of >50 such as a very small freighter?
-Or are all ships of this size all planet bound?
-If this is the case, would it make sense for a small band a CSM's to tag along a warband as mercs, then leave them through some manner when the opportunity arises?
-If that isn't likely, would it be possible for these group to get about the galaxy as stowaways or some other fashion?

Additional Note-I am very sorry for any incomprehensibility (I'm surprised that is a word...) or spelling errors and what not that may be in this mess, typing on my phone at one in the morning is kinda difficult

Well, since it's a chaos vessel, likely "commandeered" by a handful of Chaos Space Marines, it's possible the vessel has been constructed within the EoT, or had been used by another, larger warband before the change of hands. So I suppose it could be daemon-bound and therefore requires far less crewmen (to the point of zero).

It could also be an Imperial vessel that still has a good number of servitors on it, and therefore requires only a handful of marines to monitor the ship. If the warband also has a good number of cultists, some of them could be former crewmen and are therefore capable of maintaining the ship.

CSM are not exactly known for tech-purity, so incorporating filthy xeno tech can create such abominations that are in fact, automatic!. It's also possible that a certain warband
made a pact with a Dark Machanicus Forgeworld, in which they are provided with a stormbird or small space-faring vessels of such size with a warp engine installed, for a price...

Also it would seem that all human vessels that can be manned by a few crew and without hundreds of servitors are not warp-capable.

Warbands join another for the ride and pillaging all the time, if they are not busy fighting other CSMs, renegades, and warp daemons in the EoT. Similarly they also break up all the time. So the answer to that question is a solid yes.

Yes. Warp rifts happens, either it happens by chance, or some dude made a deal with a warp entity to open up such a warp portal, or perhaps a chaos cult on some imperial planet cause enough carnage and sacrifice to open one. Either way a prepared or lucky warband may enter real space this way.

actually it's quite possiable a 5-10 CSM warband could have their own frigate sized ship. it's pretty normal for space marines to assign only a squad or so to a frigate.

Or even a single Space Marine that serves as the ship's commander while the rest of the crew are normal humans.
CSM seem to get around using the Warp alot though. They don't always need ships.

They don't always need ships.

Yes, i'm imagining them riding on warp-surfboards

CSM still need gellar fields on the whole though, even though they are chaos the demons of the warp would still tear open the hull and shred their souls. I believe gellar field generators are rather large.

BrianDavion wrote:
actually it's quite possiable a 5-10 CSM warband could have their own frigate sized ship. it's pretty normal for space marines to assign only a squad or so to a frigate.

It's also possible they taxi around on various small craft.

space marines excel at boarding actions and small freighters are not very fast, maneuverable or capable of repelling boarding actions.

Smallest warp capable warships with advanced tech are about 1km that can operate alone and carry nessecery fuel, and such.

I doubt civilian ships will be smaller.

Even a tiny group of CSM consisting of only 5 to 10 marines could still have a raider-sized ship with a human crew in the hundreds. Remember, the CSMs aren't the ones actually doing the heavy lifting on any ship, it's the enslaved/in-born crew of the ship that keep it running.

 Ugly Green Trog wrote:
CSM still need gellar fields on the whole though, even though they are chaos the demons of the warp would still tear open the hull and shred their souls. I believe gellar field generators are rather large.

Chaos is on their side.

Chaos fights itself, yes, but it's still different.

 Exergy wrote:
space marines excel at boarding actions and small freighters are not very fast, maneuverable or capable of repelling boarding actions.

True, but those freighters are also very bad for any type of raiding or assault except the "send a distress call and wait to ambush the rescuers" kind. And rescuers probably send a shuttle to check first instead of trying to dock with a full-size ship so that plan is pretty bad too.

Even a small CSM band will want something fast with teeth.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Exergy wrote:
space marines excel at boarding actions and small freighters are not very fast, maneuverable or capable of repelling boarding actions.

True, but those freighters are also very bad for any type of raiding or assault except the "send a distress call and wait to ambush the rescuers" kind. And rescuers probably send a shuttle to check first instead of trying to dock with a full-size ship so that plan is pretty bad too.

Even a small CSM band will want something fast with teeth.

I was thinking more in the getting from A to B relatively unseen Landing 5-10 CSM on a planet can lead to the entire planet falling under their control.

I know that it's a ship requisitioned by an Inquisitor and thus breaks some of the rules of economy, but I believe the ship used by Eisenhorn and his retinue in the Abnett trilogy is very small but still warp-capable. If I remember correctly it's pretty much the size of the Serenity from Firefly, or slightly larger.

I'm absolutely sure there are ships flying around the 40K setting that are warp-capable but manned by only a couple of dozen crew and/or servitors and lorded over by an equal-sized retinue of Chaos marines. They just don't rate much attention in the grander scheme of a setting that would fixate on warship-level ships.

Given the name of Fast Clipper, I'd imagine they are rather small vessels. Since they are in the merchant fleet, it stands to reason that Chaos raiders & Pirates had captured them.
Only problem is we don't know the crew size. Knowing 40K it'd likely still take a few thousand crewmen to fly this thing.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
I believe the ship used by Eisenhorn and his retinue in the Abnett trilogy is very small but still warp-capable. If I remember correctly it's pretty much the size of the Serenity from Firefly, or slightly larger.

It's some time since I read the trilogy, but IIRC the gunship Eisenhorn used was not warp capable. Interplanetary transport with orbital insertion and takeoff capability. He usually hired warp transport in a bay on some merchantman, or used his favorite Captain's services if he was available.

But in the other Inquisitor trilogy - The Inquisition Wars - the inky and his retinue used a very small and fast warp capable ship, the sort that would fly very expensive cargo for the richest people in the IoM. He even posed as a filthy rich merchant with a beautiful and expensive mistress (a Callidus assassin). It's even longer since I read that but IIRC the ship was small enough that it could run with only a pilot and navigator, though an engineer was recommended too.

Small warp drives do exist. And really servitors allow for even massive ships to be run with minimal crew. So you can easily have small warp capable vessels. Its just that economies of scale make larger vessels much more efficient and worth the effort. So you really would have to be stinking rich to afford a small warp drive.

Now while this type of ship might be uncommon, given the sheer scale of the Imperium, there are probably still hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of ships like that. But like AegisGrimm says they just don't warrant much attention.


Now the chaos marines you are describing aren't exactly full chaos marines. They've simply gone rogue. They don't like the Imperium, but neither are they willing to serve the dark gods(just as planned :tzeentch trolllololol. So they've essentially become pirates. Even just a couple marines could easily control even a large warship, a small freighter is no problem. They'd also easily attract some regular human mercs to serve as their muscle. Heck, they could even get some actual loyal imperial subjects to serve them by posing as loyalist marines, traitor marines aren't exactly common knowledge. At lower levels they more or less don't exist officially, and beyond that its a need to know basis.

Being stowaways would be a little harder, but still doable.