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So, I've decided that it is time to put my grey knights on the shelf. I gave them the best go i could since their newest codex came about, but there is so little flavor in it I've become bored.

Not for lack of game play, I get plenty of games and have a very competitive record with them. They are really quite well painted.

Just wish there was more to the codex. Gw, my complaint isn't their power level, just lack of variety. Give them a new detachment, mordrak and his ghost knights or something with flavor.

As for now, Sleep well brothers.

Can't be as bad as what they did to my boyz.

Or Dark Eldar. Hear they got shafted hard in terms of cool options and such.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Can't be as bad as what they did to my boyz.

Or Dark Eldar. Hear they got shafted hard in terms of cool options and such.

The GKs had a bunch of their more Inquisitorial units removed from the codex and the elimination of things like psi bullets from their wargear options. The new GK codex didn't add any real options to GKs so they went from a decently good stand alone army to being dependent on an ally (or being the ally). What GW did to the GKs is criminal and the codex update seemed really rushed and minimal effort. Orks in comparison actually gained a lot of new options (individual unit buffs and formations help round out Ork options and their are less trash units in the codex) despite Mob Rule getting the neft bat.

It's many times worse than Orks or Dark Eldar. I don't even play Grey Knights and I recognize that. Dark Eldar still have a big assortment of units to choose from. So they lost some named characters, oh well, nothing we can do about it now. Cry about it and move on with a new idea, because Realspace Raiders with Reavers and Scourges, Venomspam, Eldar Taxi Drivers, Homunculus Covens, these are all valid builds.

Sadly I don't know enough about Orks to say for sure, but I know I see plenty of varying builds pop up here on Dakka.

Grey Knights have one build. A grand total of five unit types get used, and two of them are HQs. The rest of the book is a whole lot of 'meh' and just inferior to those five unit types. Every GK army I've seen used is Terminators in a Stormraven with an HQ attached and some Dreadknights. Repeat until you reach the points value.

The same mono-build issues had me put away my Tyranids. It's just not as fun when you bring the same army every time and with the same tactics. I'm having so much more fun with my Astral Claws changing the gameplan each match.

I agree. I would go stir crazy if I had so little variety. I can barely make it through tournaments because I'm used to switching lists every game.

 Vankraken wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Can't be as bad as what they did to my boyz.

Or Dark Eldar. Hear they got shafted hard in terms of cool options and such.

The GKs had a bunch of their more Inquisitorial units removed from the codex and the elimination of things like psi bullets from their wargear options. The new GK codex didn't add any real options to GKs so they went from a decently good stand alone army to being dependent on an ally (or being the ally). What GW did to the GKs is criminal and the codex update seemed really rushed and minimal effort. Orks in comparison actually gained a lot of new options (individual unit buffs and formations help round out Ork options and their are less trash units in the codex) despite Mob Rule getting the neft bat.

People keep throwing this around:"A Codex should not be valued based on its own but who they can ally with."

I think that is bull.. I feel for the OP. As a BA player I feel I lost something with the new codex. I don't want to field tacticals and/or scouts, or go with the one or two useful formations. I'm sure BA works as an ally, but I wanted to play Blood Angels.

GK have it much worse, but they were not exactly full of tricks before, either. But hey, in two years they'll get both of these codices up to eldar/necron level, you can bet your money on that.

Naw wrote:

 Vankraken wrote:

 Dakkamite wrote:
Can't be as bad as what they did to my boyz.

Or Dark Eldar. Hear they got shafted hard in terms of cool options and such.

The GKs had a bunch of their more Inquisitorial units removed from the codex and the elimination of things like psi bullets from their wargear options. The new GK codex didn't add any real options to GKs so they went from a decently good stand alone army to being dependent on an ally (or being the ally). What GW did to the GKs is criminal and the codex update seemed really rushed and minimal effort. Orks in comparison actually gained a lot of new options (individual unit buffs and formations help round out Ork options and their are less trash units in the codex) despite Mob Rule getting the neft bat.

People keep throwing this around:"A Codex should not be valued based on its own but who they can ally with."

I think that is bull.. I feel for the OP. As a BA player I feel I lost something with the new codex. I don't want to field tacticals and/or scouts, or go with the one or two useful formations. I'm sure BA works as an ally, but I wanted to play Blood Angels.

GK have it much worse, but they were not exactly full of tricks before, either. But hey, in two years they'll get both of these codices up to eldar/necron level, you can bet your money on that.

I agree too. Shouldn't be forced to use allies (and therefore buy at least one new codex, and the models etc) to have a fun playable army, and it's not right to judge the merit of a codex based on who it can ally with.

Allies matrix should be used in 2 on 2 games) I play DA and want to be semicompetitive without alies too.

It's funny, all I'm hearing is that the Grey Knight codex provides a clear direction for a very specifically created army to act in the one area it is meant to, from a story perspective. Yeah, I'm sure it's annoying for you, but the idea of the secret anti-daemon marines being a whole army for fighting everyone always struck me as bizarre.

As above.

A codex standing by itself is now the exception. By Design.

It also made no sense that codex: GK was more codex: Inquisition plus some PA/TA guys. Who in most 5th ed builds were just there to drive the many, many psybacks...

nosferatu1001 wrote:
As above.

A codex standing by itself is now the exception. By Design.

It also made no sense that codex: GK was more codex: Inquisition plus some PA/TA guys. Who in most 5th ed builds were just there to drive the many, many psybacks...

I don't care if it is the design, it's a crap design.

To be honest I don't know what is worse a 4 model codex or a bad codex. On one hand you can build a working list with GK and ally and it does get rather stale fast. But is it worse then having a codex that tries to beat your own army? I don't know.
In an ideal world all army books should be full of different builds and options. But maybe GW writes their books as ifpeople were not playing IG or SW, but IoM and to have fun should buy 1500+pts of every imperial army including army books to play them.

 Dakkamite wrote:
Can't be as bad as what they did to my boyz.

Or Dark Eldar. Hear they got shafted hard in terms of cool options and such.

Playing DE was like owning a '69 Corvette, only to have it stolen and replaced with a Pontiac Vibe. Sure, the Vibe gets better mileage, is safer, cheaper to maintain, will last longer, and has lower insurance, but I still want my Corvette back.

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
It's funny, all I'm hearing is that the Grey Knight codex provides a clear direction for a very specifically created army to act in the one area it is meant to, from a story perspective. Yeah, I'm sure it's annoying for you, but the idea of the secret anti-daemon marines being a whole army for fighting everyone always struck me as bizarre.

I agree with what your saying but I also agree that there should have been a bit more depth and variety to work with.

If anything the Dex should have had some built in imperial guard units and rules to use without needing to buy another codex.

 Konrax wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
It's funny, all I'm hearing is that the Grey Knight codex provides a clear direction for a very specifically created army to act in the one area it is meant to, from a story perspective. Yeah, I'm sure it's annoying for you, but the idea of the secret anti-daemon marines being a whole army for fighting everyone always struck me as bizarre.

I agree with what your saying but I also agree that there should have been a bit more depth and variety to work with.

If anything the Dex should have had some built in imperial guard units and rules to use without needing to buy another codex.

I think it's best to consider armies as groups these days (Imperium, Space Elves, and Chaos ones, at any rate).

Depth I think is a good way to put, or the lack of. Its not that they need more units its the ones they have should be deeper. Really make them different from each other and other marines.

Give me a reason to use all the models, and not just terminators, DKs, and Librarians.

I would rather they had never made the GK codex in the first place tbh - I really dislike models like the Baby Carrier and much of the new background.

I sold my grey knight army a while back because they took away many options which I had bought, flavour seemed gone to me as well, not a power issue just boring to play.

Bought some IG to go with my grey knights, the more and more I play, the more and more I like my guys more. Now I play exclusively my guard and inquisition units

My problem with the 5th Edition Grey Knights Codex was it was really Codex: Inquisition [With some Grey Knights thrown in].
The new one became First true Codex: Grey Knights. At least when it was Codex: Daemon Hunters it was Honest.

Totally understandable. Most GK armies involve Dreadknights and Librarians or all Terminator Squads. I've seen maybe one or two run PA Grey Knights.

Besides, if they aren't fun to play, shelving them for awhile isn't too bad.

How about we all get realistic with what the old Grey Knight codex was and what the current one is. The old codex was several factions all in the same book. When people were fielding GK armies since 5ed they were fielding allied factions in a single list. Frankly the previous codex while fun to play was a fluff abomination with Inquisitors leading units of Paladins and Grandmasters giving henchmen units abilities... If you played with any of the units that are no longer part of the current GK codex then you were playing with allies. It is sad that the previous GK/Witch Hunters/etc. codexes have largely been traps where if you collect the "army" you are actually collecting 2-4 different factions which are usually split or exchanged every edition. This edition they actually gave you a mechanism to continue fielding your army though as you can just ally in the units lost.

The current codex has the nemesis strike force detachment which gives them a play style that really fits their fluff and how an elite force like them would have to operate. IMO I hope they add a decurion type of detachment in the next GK codex as the faction itself is already expanded to the important units, therefore formations and special equipment would be the way to expand their play style. (btw I do own 7000 pts of GK, so it is not like I don't care)

I also find people's aversion to allies interesting as the IoM forces ALWAYS operate in concert. How many times in the fluff does a SM force appear on any real scale without PDF, IG, Imperial Navy, and Inquisition also making an appearance. The IG literally cannot show up to a planet without the imperial navy.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 Konrax wrote:

 Slaanesh-Devotee wrote:
It's funny, all I'm hearing is that the Grey Knight codex provides a clear direction for a very specifically created army to act in the one area it is meant to, from a story perspective. Yeah, I'm sure it's annoying for you, but the idea of the secret anti-daemon marines being a whole army for fighting everyone always struck me as bizarre.

I agree with what your saying but I also agree that there should have been a bit more depth and variety to work with.

If anything the Dex should have had some built in imperial guard units and rules to use without needing to buy another codex.

I think it's best to consider armies as groups these days (Imperium, Space Elves, and Chaos ones, at any rate).

Orks, crons and nids can't really ally with anyone.

The IG literally cannot show up to a planet without the imperial navy.

good thing then that there is exactly 0 navy models and codex, kind of a explains why IG is so bad in 7th. Or maybe GW wants IG players to forge for narrative while playing a simulatn game of gothic and w40k at the same time.

I feel the pain of the OP, I played a Purifier based list and a Paladin based list with HQ's unlocking them as Troops. The new codex demands you take vanilla Troops. Great Ally army, really blah as a stand alone army now. It will take some creative list writing and combining with AdMech or something to give them their old flavor back, at least as far as my collection goes.

 BladeWalker wrote:
I feel the pain of the OP, I played a Purifier based list and a Paladin based list with HQ's unlocking them as Troops. The new codex demands you take vanilla Troops. Great Ally army, really blah as a stand alone army now. It will take some creative list writing and combining with AdMech or something to give them their old flavor back, at least as far as my collection goes.

I do miss the ability to "Unlock Units", but I always took a squad of Terminators anyways so it was not that big of an issue with me.

As far as "Blandness", I always felt it was what you took and how you played them that decided that.

Don't shelve them, that would be a waste. Sell them entirely! That'll teach GW to make bad codices.

I'll give you 100 for the entire army. Think about it, you get rid of something boring that's just taking up shelfspace AND you get money for it!

Makumba wrote:

The IG literally cannot show up to a planet without the imperial navy.

good thing then that there is exactly 0 navy models and codex, kind of a explains why IG is so bad in 7th. Or maybe GW wants IG players to forge for narrative while playing a simulatn game of gothic and w40k at the same time.

actually the Valyrie, Vendetta, and Astropath are all Imperial Navy units. Forgeworld also adds a bunch of Imperial Navy to the army list. However, I was more referencing the fact that the IG literally cannot show up to a battlefield without the Imperial Navy acting as their taxi.

Also the Commissars, Techpriests, Priests, and Scions are all part of different factions than the IG.

BladeWalker wrote:I feel the pain of the OP, I played a Purifier based list and a Paladin based list with HQ's unlocking them as Troops. The new codex demands you take vanilla Troops. Great Ally army, really blah as a stand alone army now. It will take some creative list writing and combining with AdMech or something to give them their old flavor back, at least as far as my collection goes.

I am really hoping that the next GK codex conforms to the current standard of CAD, formations, and combi-formation detachment. This would allow you to expand the playstyles of the army without actually needing a bunch of new models. Because frankly they would probably have to make up new units like the dreadknight to add something significantly visually distinct to the GK.

I'm feeling kinda the same way with GK. Tired of running the same army over and over again.

Really don't want to buy new stuff with the craziness going on.

My issue with GK is actually how defined they are. My Tyranids are a custom Hive Fleet. My Tau are a custom hunter cadre. I'd love to build a GK army, but I feel like unless you go "super special snowflake" there's no room for a custom brotherhood.