Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

In a challenge.

Which character has the best statistical chance of beating killing Jain Zar in a challenge? Can be any character or special character (including custom-built ones like Smash fether, a tooled-up Archon etc), with the only parameter being that it has to be a model she can wound (so no vehicles, for example). The character can not be buffed by other units, though it may buff itself if it has the capability.

Also, emphasis on cheapest. The first person who suggests a Primarch is getting slapped.

Anyhoo, les do this.

EDIT- These are her rules:

WS7 BS7 S4 T4 W3 I7 A4 Ld10 2+sv

Ancient Doom
Eternal Warrior
Fear
Fearless

Enemies in combat with her get -2 to leadership
Before rolling To Hit whilst in a challenge, Jain Zar can choose to nominate one of her opponent’s melee weapons. Her opponent counts as not being equipped with that weapon until the end of the phase. If Jain Zar does this, she makes one less Attack than normal this phase.

Her weapon is strength 4 AP 2 with shred, and has an ability that lowers the initiative and weapon skill of all enemies within 6'' by 5.

200 points

Who is Jain Zar and what does she do exactly? Stat wise?

Because honestly the cheapest character would probably be like a comissar with a power fist (assuming its a T3 enemy)

with one lucky shot she should be dead no?

She has EW iirc.
Shes the Howling Banshee Pheonix Lord.
Shes excellent in comabt with some good rules but only str4.

Could you post her stats? Or perhaps PM me with them? I'm not familiar with eldar SCs.

 Ratius wrote:
She has EW iirc.
Shes the Howling Banshee Pheonix Lord.
Shes excellent in comabt with some good rules but only str4.

Ah. well also she appears to be T4 if nothing changed edition.
Well still anyone with 3 attacks "can" kill her

Edit:


7 7 4 4 3 7 4 10 2+
Disarming strike which rolls off+ws for remeoval of special weapons.

ap2 melee weapons, a second one having shred, mask -5 to ws and int if she charges.

Asuming this hasnt changed in 7th

7
7
4
4
3
7
4
10
2+

Ap2 str 4 weapon. Enemies go at -5 to I and she can disarm one weapon from an opponent.

Thanks, Ratius!

Hmm, an ork warboss with a power klaw, cybork body and da killa klaw might stand a chance. -5I doesn't matter, because of Unwieldy and the boss has 2 PKs to counteract the disarming feature. He might die before he gets to swing though.

There's Ghazghkull during his Waaagh! 2++ save and a ton of ID attacks should make a dead phoenix lord.

I vote for Lelith Hesperax in the challenge. Stats are 9 9 3 3 3 9 6 9. She ignores armor innately, rerolls To Hit and To Wound, and has a 3++ in combat. She only costs 150 points to boot.

Castellan Crowe is only 175. He's got AP2 str6 with hammer hand and a 4++ reroll able in CC. Ws8 I 8? Not sure if that helps him. Lysander or a captain with sheild eternal and a pair of lightning claws would probably beat her too.

I edited her rules into the OP.

How does the disarming strike work, is it possible for it to fail against a model that has lower ws than her?

Regardless I think orikan, from the necrons, would do relatively well against her. With his ability to have 1+ to reanimation, 4+ invulnerable, and rerolling saving throws of 1 meaning that even her having an Ap2 weapon is not so bad. His close combat weapon allows him to reroll failed to hit roll and is Ap2 as well, meaning that once he is able to use his weapon it will hurt her. And considering he does buff himself at some point of the game there is a chance he might get to use that weapon, all for a mere 120

Edit: Ninja'd by the OP, never mind he never has a chance to use his weapon, but he will tarpit the gak out Jain Zar

There's no test for disarming strike. Jain Zar just picks one of the enemy model's weapons and they lose access to it and any abilities it gives for the duration of the phase. She can use it at the start of every round, it's not like a "one use only" type thing.

A Dreadknight is a character, and starts at 130 with 4 S10 AP2 attacks and a 5++, with a psychic power that can make it a 4++. Pure CC and speed upgrades can make him 40 points more expensive. He'll hit on 4's, still at S10 cause he has 2 powerfists while she will hit on 3's and wound on 6s. Unless she has a good invul save, the dreadknight will win the attrition battle.

Basically what you need is a character with a high toughness, good invul save, and high strength AP2 (initiative doesn't matter).

Iron hands chapter master with gorgon chain and 2 powerfists would be a good shout.
Reason being that you need 2 ap2 weapons and gorgon chain allows you to take 2 and still have the EW, 3++, IWND bonus etc. Clan Raukaan data slate is on my old phone so will have to wait until I'm home until I get the points cost on that.
Loth IF he gets Iron arm off. She will disarm the force axe, but he will still get st7 ap2 attacks from his pistol whip And a 2++ to boot. 175pts (off the top of my head).

 greyknight12 wrote:
A Dreadknight is a character, and starts at 130 with 4 S10 AP2 attacks and a 5++, with a psychic power that can make it a 4++. Pure CC and speed upgrades can make him 40 points more expensive. He'll hit on 4's, still at S10 cause he has 2 powerfists while she will hit on 3's and wound on 6s. Unless she has a good invul save, the dreadknight will win the attrition battle.

Basically what you need is a character with a high toughness, good invul save, and high strength AP2 (initiative doesn't matter).

st10 ap 2 that becomes user st ap2... but should still own her anyway.

Actually im not sure she has a invul.

Shes dosent, no PLs do :(

Haha, if only you hadn't specified that I can't throw something at her that she can't hurt! Everyone makes fun of dreadnoughts, but when they get into CC with a fearless wimp like her they make even the killiest character look pathetic.

 Ratius wrote:
Shes dosent, no PLs do :(

Then yeah i think dreadknight wins at the lowest points

Is a Tomb spider a character?

A DK would be hitting on 5's, her ability makes him WS1. :p

I believe it would still win though.

IH Smashfucker sounds pretty badass. How much does he cost?

 Desubot wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
A Dreadknight is a character, and starts at 130 with 4 S10 AP2 attacks and a 5++, with a psychic power that can make it a 4++. Pure CC and speed upgrades can make him 40 points more expensive. He'll hit on 4's, still at S10 cause he has 2 powerfists while she will hit on 3's and wound on 6s. Unless she has a good invul save, the dreadknight will win the attrition battle.

Basically what you need is a character with a high toughness, good invul save, and high strength AP2 (initiative doesn't matter).

st10 ap 2 that becomes user st ap2... but should still own her anyway.

Actually im not sure she has a invul.

No Invuln I believe, and even if she uses Disarming Strike, he'll have a Power Fist remaining, he just won't get the 2xCCW bonus.

Nurgle biker Lord, two Power Fists and whatever the 4++ Wargear is (Aura of Dark Glory?) Not a ton of attacks, but between MoN and a bike he gets T6, so Jain is only wounding on 6s and even with Shred that's not good odds. Conversely, he'll be wounding on 2s, so should finish her over a few rounds. No idea on cost, or if Chaos have any relics that could help.

 Valkyrie wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 greyknight12 wrote:
A Dreadknight is a character, and starts at 130 with 4 S10 AP2 attacks and a 5++, with a psychic power that can make it a 4++. Pure CC and speed upgrades can make him 40 points more expensive. He'll hit on 4's, still at S10 cause he has 2 powerfists while she will hit on 3's and wound on 6s. Unless she has a good invul save, the dreadknight will win the attrition battle.

Basically what you need is a character with a high toughness, good invul save, and high strength AP2 (initiative doesn't matter).

st10 ap 2 that becomes user st ap2... but should still own her anyway.

Actually im not sure she has a invul.

No Invuln I believe, and even if she uses Disarming Strike, he'll have a Power Fist remaining, he just won't get the 2xCCW bonus.

just 1 weapon gone? i miss read that lel

But yeah ether way he probably has the best chance since she needs to wound on constant rerolling 6s + sanctuary. while any attack that connects will wound her near 100%

at 120 points i think we have a winner or at least the bar standard.

Herald of Nurgle, FNP Loci, greater and lesser Etherblade 100pts

Str5 T5, 5++, FNP and master-crafted on both weapons.

Zan chooses to take away the greater Etherblade, so the Herald needs 5's to hit (reduced to WS1), with one re-roll per turn and 3's to wound (no saves as ap2).

Stock Wraithlord. Same points, but literally can't lose.

 CaptainJay wrote:
Herald of Nurgle, FNP Loci, greater and lesser Etherblade 100pts

Str5 T5, 5++, FNP and master-crafted on both weapons.

Zan chooses to take away the greater Etherblade, so the Herald needs 5's to hit (reduced to WS1), with one re-roll per turn and 3's to wound (no saves as ap2).

4 attacks at st 4 shred at 3s to hit will probably get through faster than you will be able to get to her i think.

Has anyone considered a Culexus Assassin?

WS8 BS8 S4 T4 W3 I8 A4

Despite Jain Zar's WS/I lowering ability he'll still be hitting on 3's due to his own ability to reduce JZ down to WS1. His attacks ignore armour saves by default: Disarming Strike can't do anything to stop this, and in addition he has up to 3 S5 Ap1 shots beforehand before he gets stuck in. If he gets wounded he has 3 wounds with a 4+ Invuln with FNP.

Not the most obvious choice but I think the Culexus could definitely put up at least a fair fight.

Bharring wrote:
Stock Wraithlord. Same points, but literally can't lose.

Read the opening post before posting.

 Valkyrie wrote:
Has anyone considered a Culexus Assassin?

WS8 BS8 S4 T4 W3 I8 A4

Despite Jain Zar's WS/I lowering ability he'll still be hitting on 3's due to his own ability to reduce JZ down to WS1. His attacks ignore armour saves by default: Disarming Strike can't do anything to stop this, and in addition he has up to 3 S5 Ap1 shots beforehand before he gets stuck in. If he gets wounded he has 3 wounds with a 4+ Invuln with FNP.

Not the most obvious choice but I think the Culexus could definitely put up at least a fair fight.

There's a pretty hilarious mental image of all this debuffing/counter-debuffing going on.

Like, two drunk cripples trying to brawl.

clux has a FNP? i though that was only Eve

But culx costs like 135 no? which is more than a Dk

Culexus Assassin. Etherium makes Jain Zar WS/BS1, so the -5WS doesn't help her.

Culexus Assassins also ignore armor with all their attacks, have a 4++, 3Ws, and do not actually possess a CC weapon.

Can't be disarmed, Etherium nullifies the -5WS. Between Zar having to hit on 5's (WS1 from Etherium vs WS3 from Zar's skill), and the 4++ of the Culexus, he'll pretty much rip her pointy-eared head off.

I don't think it's the best choice but the Culexus assassin wouldn't be in with an entirely improbable chance. Jain would hit on 5s (counting as WS1 against the Culexus' total WS of 3), Culexus would hit on 3s. Both would wound on 4s. The Culexus ignores the 2+ save (as that's a property of the assassin, not a weapon it wields), but has a 4+ invul. Both have the same number of wounds. Jain strikes at higher initiative. I would bet on Jain, but the luck of rolls means the Culexus would win a significant minority number of times I think. Also only 70% of Jain's points cost.

EDIT: someone beat me to it, and no Culexus doesn't have FNP.